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Outsider has NEP so I'm not sure Kars can directly affect him, but apparently everything else Outsider has is things Kars can understand.
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The Outsider vs Novel Kars
- Thread starter Stillwinston
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Rikimarox2
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Outsider is still a concept.
Kars can understand concepts, so whats stopping him from copying the time stop and gaining resistance to it?
Edit: now that I think about it, Kars would be able to understand and gain resistances, but idk if he'd be able to affect outsider
Kars can understand concepts, so whats stopping him from copying the time stop and gaining resistance to it?
Edit: now that I think about it, Kars would be able to understand and gain resistances, but idk if he'd be able to affect outsider
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Outsider resists basically everything D4C does
- 7,563
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- Thread starter
- #46
Yeah killing Kars is moot cause it'll just switch over to another Kars across a 2-A range or smth so that's a lotta Kars lol
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The Outsider can see into and affect all universes and timelines so that wouldnt really be helpful
Rikimarox2
He/Him- 7,679
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Outsider is 2B tho, Kars range is 2A.
- 7,897
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The Outsider is not affecting D4C Ultimate's universes are not part of the Void and are created when he uses the abilities. Same with MiH Ultimate.
Outside of the copying typic. Can the Outsider resist Bite the Dust's fate manipulation?
Outside of the copying typic. Can the Outsider resist Bite the Dust's fate manipulation?
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They dont have to be part of the Void for him to affect them though as per SBA they would be
Rikimarox2
He/Him- 7,679
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He's acasual type 4, so he won't be able to affect him.
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And yeah the Outsider would resist BTDU
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- Thread starter
- #54
Not sure if OS can get past D4C's range tho, he will have to in order to put Kars down for good right?
Arcker123
He/Him- 7,426
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Wait how would kars deal with the outsiders perception manip. (Those who speak to him at his shrines are put "in a daze" and his form isn't perceivable to those he does not wish it to be)
Rikimarox2
He/Him- 7,679
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Does he start with that?
Regardless, I don't think it matters since he still doesn't have anything against D4C, and I think he'd be able to understand the timestop since he'll notice.
Regardless, I don't think it matters since he still doesn't have anything against D4C, and I think he'd be able to understand the timestop since he'll notice.
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Arcker123
He/Him- 7,426
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This is also true, he has NPI, Extrasensory perception and a massive Ap advantage, with his precog there is no reason why he wouldn't do this.
Arcker123
He/Him- 7,426
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why would he notice. The outsiders perception manipulation does not have a time limit and kars does not resist.
Rikimarox2
He/Him- 7,679
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I meant he'll notice that he is being time stopped, and just gain a resistances to the time stop, not perception manip.
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Thats...not how his powers work though, if they did he would have gained an outright resistance to timestop when Dio timestopped him in the novel instead of relying on The World Ultimate to counteract it
Arcker123
He/Him- 7,426
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I was given this explanation on kars adaptation power from another user.
"No, he just needs to "experience" it.
Which is extremely widespread given how many senses he has (hundreds of types beyond the main human 6 of vision, hearing, touch, etc). He doesn't even need to "understand" it to actually copy or mimic it in the sense of he knows exactly how it functions and what it can do, take Whitesnake for example, it hit him, he "understood it", and copied it. But he didn't know what it did or actually understood it in the general sense of the word untill he read Pucci's mind, he simply innately understood it because he's "The Ultimate Thing" (And yes, that's actually the reason given canonically), aka Understand is the name of the ability.
Same with D4C, he never once actually saw what D4C looked like, he simply experienced it, and copied it in full, including the Stand's body (but on steroids) despite having never seen it.
He also copied Dune from looking through someone's memory despite having never interacted with the thing himself for the most part.
That is to say, no, he doesn't need to physically see an ability, simply being under something's effect, having an ability try and effect him and so on is enough, though that isn't to say he can't adapt and understand from visuals, he can do that as well. And for more basic abilities, simply knowing that it exist is enough.
Kars' can reasonably adapt to and copy any ability within JoJo, up to the year 2012, as that was when the novel came out and every ability up to the point exists within the novel's canon and then some new ones and it's hammered in that Kars has the potential to copy them all and adapt if he ever encountered them or felt the need to (Kars in the novel is extremely apathetic, so much so he's actually a good dude and lost basically all his evil intent). So I guess, if you want an extensive list of abilities he can in theory copy or abilities and approximations close to it, look up "List of Stands" on the jojo wiki, that'd give you a good chunk (chunk, not all) of his capabilities."
"No, he just needs to "experience" it.
Which is extremely widespread given how many senses he has (hundreds of types beyond the main human 6 of vision, hearing, touch, etc). He doesn't even need to "understand" it to actually copy or mimic it in the sense of he knows exactly how it functions and what it can do, take Whitesnake for example, it hit him, he "understood it", and copied it. But he didn't know what it did or actually understood it in the general sense of the word untill he read Pucci's mind, he simply innately understood it because he's "The Ultimate Thing" (And yes, that's actually the reason given canonically), aka Understand is the name of the ability.
Same with D4C, he never once actually saw what D4C looked like, he simply experienced it, and copied it in full, including the Stand's body (but on steroids) despite having never seen it.
He also copied Dune from looking through someone's memory despite having never interacted with the thing himself for the most part.
That is to say, no, he doesn't need to physically see an ability, simply being under something's effect, having an ability try and effect him and so on is enough, though that isn't to say he can't adapt and understand from visuals, he can do that as well. And for more basic abilities, simply knowing that it exist is enough.
Kars' can reasonably adapt to and copy any ability within JoJo, up to the year 2012, as that was when the novel came out and every ability up to the point exists within the novel's canon and then some new ones and it's hammered in that Kars has the potential to copy them all and adapt if he ever encountered them or felt the need to (Kars in the novel is extremely apathetic, so much so he's actually a good dude and lost basically all his evil intent). So I guess, if you want an extensive list of abilities he can in theory copy or abilities and approximations close to it, look up "List of Stands" on the jojo wiki, that'd give you a good chunk (chunk, not all) of his capabilities."
Rikimarox2
He/Him- 7,679
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Figured. So, he'd be able to adapt to the ts rather easily.
Not to mention, depending on how Outsider's analyzer work, he might gain resistances to it.
Not to mention, depending on how Outsider's analyzer work, he might gain resistances to it.
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I really dont think he would be able to do that though, he was not able to adapt to timestop even in the book when he was timestopped
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Yesbut that relies on him using TheWorld Ultimate, whichthe Outsider can also destroy, and using it before the Outsider kills him
Arcker123
He/Him- 7,426
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Your point is that his resistance comes from the world, which he would not know to use before getting timestopped?
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He is only abl to gain the ability to resist timestop if The World has also used timestop. The Outsider can destroy The World and has all of the means to not only do so, but to know to do so beforehand.
Arcker123
He/Him- 7,426
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Outsider timestops first because it is passive and kars cant do anything?
Rikimarox2
He/Him- 7,679
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Idk shit about the novels, since I don't want to get a seizure, but I don't recall he needs to summon TW to use TS. Someone probably is gonna need to contact Chariot about it.
Arcker123
He/Him- 7,426
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Also is this a typo?
| At least 2 meters with D4C Ultimate (Comparable if not above the original D4C). Universal with D4C Ultimate's ability |
| At least 2 meters with D4C Ultimate (Comparable if not above the original D4C). Universal with D4C Ultimate's ability |
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- Thread starter
- #77
Should still have like 2-A range on it tho I'd assume if its greater than Valentine's
Arcker123
He/Him- 7,426
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Here are some things to consider
- Most of kars stands offensive stands are resisted, and they can't damage or interact with the outsider due to the AP gap and NEP
- Outsider has passive timestop, while kars does resist timestop, that is only with a specific stand that he would not be able to use before getting stopped
- D4C, while yes it can ressurcect kars, outsider can precog this and oneshot D4C (He has extrasensory perception and NPI). Yes kars can survive it's destruction, i have not seen proof that he can bring back his stand
- This leaves only the understand, for one could he copy Nonexsistent Physiology and omniprescence, second outsider has passive perception manipulation which makes him invisible and inaudible, if kars needs to interact with or see the ability this is a hard counter. Additionally there is the timestop point i mentioned earlier.
- Kars does have good regen, but the outsiders AP advantage is so massive i reckon he could atomize kars in one punch
- Also outsider has soul hax that can affect delilah, who resists soul hax, his reality warping is good enough to reshape all of dishonored's physical reality
- Outsider Precogs or info analyzes every thing kars can do
- Most of kars stands offensive stands are resisted, and they can't damage or interact with the outsider due to the AP gap and NEP
- Outsider has passive timestop, while kars does resist timestop, that is only with a specific stand that he would not be able to use before getting stopped
- D4C, while yes it can ressurcect kars, outsider can precog this and oneshot D4C (He has extrasensory perception and NPI). Yes kars can survive it's destruction, i have not seen proof that he can bring back his stand
- This leaves only the understand, for one could he copy Nonexsistent Physiology and omniprescence, second outsider has passive perception manipulation which makes him invisible and inaudible, if kars needs to interact with or see the ability this is a hard counter. Additionally there is the timestop point i mentioned earlier.
- Kars does have good regen, but the outsiders AP advantage is so massive i reckon he could atomize kars in one punch
- Also outsider has soul hax that can affect delilah, who resists soul hax, his reality warping is good enough to reshape all of dishonored's physical reality
- Outsider Precogs or info analyzes every thing kars can do
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- #80
Yeah nvm this is a stomp then
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