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Trust me, I've seen it myself and I get it. But it's not our problem if the people won't listen. We need to make headway in how to deal with Tier 1's.
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The matter with high tier pages here...
- Thread starter CrossverseCrisis
- Start date
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- Tags
- tiering system
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- #42
@Dragon: Which leads back to Ziel's comment of why people make them like that: They just make op for the sake of OP w/o ever learning about the tiering system for a just a bit longer. Hell i even linked Prom's blog about Tier 1's and 0's on the Tiering page and most people still don't learn.
And that's true, man. I've dealt with cases like this since LAST YEAR starting with Ziel and now sometimes with Prom and Exo. On all cases, the users just don't know when to even bother to learn a little more/
And that's true, man. I've dealt with cases like this since LAST YEAR starting with Ziel and now sometimes with Prom and Exo. On all cases, the users just don't know when to even bother to learn a little more/
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^Exactly. That's the biggest problem we have here.
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@Exo: I get what you mean tho on making some kind of thing on how to handle them. The thing still, is that in the end (one way or another) the creator ends up just not doing what i try to help them with AT ALL.
@Dragon: Yes. And given the other days recent events of it plus having dealt with enough of Redgraves overpowered and broken BS OC's (for letting them be on here), i decided it was time to really just stop all this freaking BS that i've let slide on for too long since i adopted this wiki last year and do something about it, along with anyone here whose willing to help out on this.
@Dragon: Yes. And given the other days recent events of it plus having dealt with enough of Redgraves overpowered and broken BS OC's (for letting them be on here), i decided it was time to really just stop all this freaking BS that i've let slide on for too long since i adopted this wiki last year and do something about it, along with anyone here whose willing to help out on this.
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I'm willing to help.
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As am I.
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Thanks you two.
Anyways aside from later hearing on what Ziel has in mind for us to do, i think we should temporarily put up a rule to not make any more Tier 1 pages. Ones that have already been made here will stay tho for the ones that are in such bad quality, we ned to take care of that.
Anyways aside from later hearing on what Ziel has in mind for us to do, i think we should temporarily put up a rule to not make any more Tier 1 pages. Ones that have already been made here will stay tho for the ones that are in such bad quality, we ned to take care of that.
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Alright.
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Okay.
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Yes. *Nods*
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For me should I just report them to you guys, make a thread or what? Seeing as I can't delete the bad ones.
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@Dragon: Yes you can just at least report them to either me, Exo, or Prom about this.
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Okay then.
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How does this look to you guys? It seems okay but there are somethings that are odd. Could be just me.
https://fcoc-vs-battles.fandom.com/wiki/Project_Ultimate
These have the problem of having High 1-A beings stronger than another. A problem Ziel brought up. Among other things.
https://fcoc-vs-battles.fandom.com/wiki/Xeizerevia
https://fcoc-vs-battles.fandom.com/wiki/Archangel_Michael_(_Wonderlands_)
https://fcoc-vs-battles.fandom.com/wiki/Behemoth
https://fcoc-vs-battles.fandom.com/wiki/Four_Horseman_of_Death
https://fcoc-vs-battles.fandom.com/wiki/Project_Ultimate
These have the problem of having High 1-A beings stronger than another. A problem Ziel brought up. Among other things.
https://fcoc-vs-battles.fandom.com/wiki/Xeizerevia
https://fcoc-vs-battles.fandom.com/wiki/Archangel_Michael_(_Wonderlands_)
https://fcoc-vs-battles.fandom.com/wiki/Behemoth
https://fcoc-vs-battles.fandom.com/wiki/Four_Horseman_of_Death
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It'd be hard to make comprehensive restrictions on the creation of Tier 1 pages. But;
- Tier 1 pages should have more depth and effort put into them than the bare minimum, and should be complex and interesting enough to differentiate themselves from other characters and stand out on their own was a character not created simply for the purpose of having a Tier 1 character.
- Tier 1 pages should show at least basic understanding of the subject matter.
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@Promestein:
Those seem pretty good enough, tho Ziel may have something in mind like it or similar.
As for the pages, Prom? I'd rather we go and just delete them off. Those like the last four that Minus have does not seem like he's planning on fixing them anytime soon. The one you just linked now is something that Blitz would have fixed.....if he were still around. You can delete those now if you like. Of course on most of my cases dealing with them here along with you, Ziel, and Exo, it's best to at least keep a few and ask the creator another time to try and actually fix them.
Those seem pretty good enough, tho Ziel may have something in mind like it or similar.
As for the pages, Prom? I'd rather we go and just delete them off. Those like the last four that Minus have does not seem like he's planning on fixing them anytime soon. The one you just linked now is something that Blitz would have fixed.....if he were still around. You can delete those now if you like. Of course on most of my cases dealing with them here along with you, Ziel, and Exo, it's best to at least keep a few and ask the creator another time to try and actually fix them.
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Alright. I can go through the Tier 1 category and clear out some pages.
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I do agree with Prom's rules for Tier 1 pages. The rules in general need to be revised by the staff members.
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Once again, that was something me and Prom were originally going to do at some point. Since all of us are essentially here + Ziel is willing to help out for a bit, we can try to set something up like what Prom put here.
The rules are in need of revisioning work.
The rules are in need of revisioning work.
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Rough idea: Have a thread for Tier 1 pages, where people post newly made Tier 1 pages for review by staff about whether or not they meet the criteria.
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@Prom: Hmm....not a bad idea, actually. This may be better than just any of us looking at the tier 1's (or even 0's if i may add) and just to point out the problems with them and such. Like if they fully meet everything, it's good and little to no problems will be met with them. If okay but could be improved upon, definitely make some pointers about it to the creator and hope to see if they can improve it or not. If it doesn't meet even one of the criteria's, inform the user of the page immediately about the problem and, if they don't fix it within a certain period of time (like a week or two as Ziel said), no choice but delete it.
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Also Prom since we're also going to be doing this, you should also update your blog about these tiers along the way too as well, in the sense of making it more "clear" as to how they are if possible, going by our talks of this up til' now.
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I am not exempt from this either. I have used tier 1 pages left and right within the thread, without really taking the time to edit them. I meant for each of them to be legitimate in their own ways, but it certainly did not turn that way. I get that some like Lillie, Behemoth, Azrael ( Who i noticed got deleted a few days ago . ) , and quite a deal others do not fit this criteria. From no on, i will do my best to make good quality pages and be as active as possible. Yeah ... ...
- looks over Xeizerevia, Behemoth , Michael , and The Four Houseman , then facepalms -
Those "oc's" were pretty bad. You can delete them honestly ... I honestly do not think i can make them better, as the creativity for those characters was lost half a year ago.
Oh by the way I might not be on as long due to high school business. But i will definitely try... - pledges -
- looks over Xeizerevia, Behemoth , Michael , and The Four Houseman , then facepalms -
Those "oc's" were pretty bad. You can delete them honestly ... I honestly do not think i can make them better, as the creativity for those characters was lost half a year ago.
Oh by the way I might not be on as long due to high school business. But i will definitely try... - pledges -
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I don't really have much to add on, but I do agree that as of now, there should be some re-workings on the tier 1 rules.
Maybe someone already said this (gotta re-read this thread), but even if someone has the nessessary 5,000 bytes, the justification for that tier still needs to be good or clear, and not just 5,000 bytes saying "[He/She/It] is the strongest being ever!" and leaving it at that, or making that character feel like you're saying that.
I found that there's this neat thing for OCs called the Universal Mary Sue Litmus Test , where you take a test on how much of a Mary/Gary Sue your character is. It's used on the Death Battle Fanon Wikia for OCs. It's a pretty long test, and not many people have time to do this, but maybe we can do something similar for here. Maybe do a thread of questions people can answer, or something along those lines.
IMO maybe we should simply be more clear in saying "You must have a reasonable explanation for your character, be it explained in-universe, their personality, etc...", or even give tips to the creator of that character, push them in the right direction.
(Oh god, this reminds me of back in 6-7th grade when I created this dumb OP Mary Sue character that was supposed to represent me or something. Good thing that phase is over.)
And I believe that's all, hope I added something new. Oh, and one final thing, I like Prom's idea about reviewing tier 1 (and 0) pages. That would probably work quite well.
Maybe someone already said this (gotta re-read this thread), but even if someone has the nessessary 5,000 bytes, the justification for that tier still needs to be good or clear, and not just 5,000 bytes saying "[He/She/It] is the strongest being ever!" and leaving it at that, or making that character feel like you're saying that.
I found that there's this neat thing for OCs called the Universal Mary Sue Litmus Test , where you take a test on how much of a Mary/Gary Sue your character is. It's used on the Death Battle Fanon Wikia for OCs. It's a pretty long test, and not many people have time to do this, but maybe we can do something similar for here. Maybe do a thread of questions people can answer, or something along those lines.
IMO maybe we should simply be more clear in saying "You must have a reasonable explanation for your character, be it explained in-universe, their personality, etc...", or even give tips to the creator of that character, push them in the right direction.
(Oh god, this reminds me of back in 6-7th grade when I created this dumb OP Mary Sue character that was supposed to represent me or something. Good thing that phase is over.)
And I believe that's all, hope I added something new. Oh, and one final thing, I like Prom's idea about reviewing tier 1 (and 0) pages. That would probably work quite well.
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The Litmus test can be helpful, yes.
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@Prom: Wanna give it a try like DBFW? I don't mind it being used here. Not sure as to how it'll help Tier 1's and 0's but i guess it may be in the form of "how overly OP they are" and such, i think?
And Mark's points are about as the same as the rest of ours here on revising and being more clear with the rules of making these kinds of characters, yeah.
And Mark's points are about as the same as the rest of ours here on revising and being more clear with the rules of making these kinds of characters, yeah.
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Both Prom's and Xmark's ideas could work really well;they're worth a try at least.
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Fair enough. The ideas that both made are pretty good and may very work here on us dealing with this problem we've been having since last year.
I'm willing to try this at least.
So we have the rules ideas that Xmark and Prom made, plus a thread idea that Prom suggested and maybe use a Mary Sue test that Xmark suggested here.
Anybody else here good with this?
I'm willing to try this at least.
So we have the rules ideas that Xmark and Prom made, plus a thread idea that Prom suggested and maybe use a Mary Sue test that Xmark suggested here.
Anybody else here good with this?
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I'm all in for this. I agree with everything.
Although, won't the tier 1 thread be filled with text really quickly with the backstory and stuff needing to be 5k bytes?
Also, I think we should create a custom Mary Sue/Gary Stu test, as a ton of the Litmus test aren't related to combat/abilities nor story/explanation, and taking the Litmus test for every OC is going to be extremely time consuming.
I'm extremely sorry for only giving input now, I was doing other stuff.
Although, won't the tier 1 thread be filled with text really quickly with the backstory and stuff needing to be 5k bytes?
Also, I think we should create a custom Mary Sue/Gary Stu test, as a ton of the Litmus test aren't related to combat/abilities nor story/explanation, and taking the Litmus test for every OC is going to be extremely time consuming.
I'm extremely sorry for only giving input now, I was doing other stuff.
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I agree with the test.
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It'd be difficult to create a custom test. It'd probably be easier to do the Litmus test, even if it is time consuming. It is comprehensive and will pick up on non-power related power issues in a character.
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It would be quite helpful to use an Litmus Test. I also agree that some of the litmus test take an awful amount of time, so maybe something short, yet effective in usage ? And yes, i also agree with setting an limit and to add more detail to the explanation of an specific oc's tiering. Good thing i remmber Hitomi's Litmus Score...^^ .
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Categorization of the Tier 1 pages...
- Category 1: The Decent Ones and the ones that don't necessarily break the current rules...
- Aprosopia... Very decent character here... it's detailed in all aspects, doesn't seem to break any of the current rules and is quite well organized...
- Arc... Not a bad character... interesting personality, nice set of powers and abilities and decently organized...
- Azrael... Intriguing Character... Doesn't seem to break any rules, is detailed and is decently organized...
- Balthazar... A decent character...
- Cosmic... Interesting character... it doesn't seem to break any of the current rules and is decently organized...
- Cédrick... Definitely a nice character... doesn't seem to break any rules and is pretty good overall...
- Daniel... Decent character... Well organized, properly detailed and no rules seem to be broken...
- Dartania Alvania Yu... Quite an interesting and praise worthy character here... it's extremely detailed in all aspects, has an intriguing personality, the information on the page is flawlessly organized and not one of the current rules seem to be broken...
- Gilgamesh (Amenia)... Not all that much information about his Tier 1 stats but it doesn't break any of the current rules, the information present on it isn't bad and is decently organized...
- H.E.L.P.... Interesting summary, decently organized... barely makes the byte size requirement but makes it nonetheless
- Infinitrix, the Infinity Lord... Decently organized and very detailed in all aspects... Doesn't seem to break the current rules...
- Jacque Tremblay... Decent character with properly organized information on the page and doesn't seem to break any of the current rules...
- Jake... Pretty alright character...
- Kasairyu Y. Omegos... Pretty good character... Decently organized and doesn't seem to break any of the rules...
- Korl Yerl... Decent character with decent information about him...
- Lebes... Very detailed, properly organized and overall a good character...
- Leon Raiden Yu... Extremely detailed, very interesting and pretty good overall...
- Linx Rifelso... Detailed, properly organized, backstory and personality of the character are both interesting and doesn't seem to break any of the current rules...
- Lökha... Interesting character overall...
- Miss... Once again an interesting character overall...
- Nicholas Anderso... Very detailed, properly organized, interesting personality, nice set of powers and abilities and overall a pretty decent character...
- NUMEN... Extremely detailed, properly organized, interesting overall and doesn't seem to break any rules...
- Stryder Xiaolong Yu... Detailed, organized and interesting...
- The Above... Overall not bad...
- The Admi... Once again a decent character with detailed and organized information...
- The Core (Gyrohem)... Detailed and overall interesting...
- The Seven Omnipotence... Detailed, properly organized, pretty interesting and overall good...
- The Voyager... Overall pretty good...
- Vice Jackso... Once again overall pretty good...
- Xanix Hikari... Detailed, organized and interesting...
- Xylia Hikari... Same with her sister above...
- Yaldabaoth... Interesting enough, properly detailed and overall pretty good...
- Yvonne Jackso... Detailed, interesting and organized...
- Category 2: The okay ones which are mostly alright but would need some editing to be done on them...
- Chaos... This page has 3658 bytes which means it doesn't meet the byte size requirement...
- Deprived Gaster... This page has 3342 bytes which means it doesn't meet the byte size requirement...
- Gabriel Parker... This page has 3561 bytes which means it doesn't meet the byte size requirement...
- Hatoshi, The Boundless Sheep... Not much that's wrong with this page but the information and the images present in can be organized better...
- Jasper... This page has 3561 bytes (it's interesting that there are currently two Tier 1 pages with the exact byte size) which means it doesn't meet the byte size requirement...
- King Demious... This page has 3587 bytes which means it doesn't meet the byte size requirement...
- Nothing... This page has 3222 bytes which means it doesn't meet the byte size requirement...
- Project Ultimate... This page has 3942 bytes which means it doesn't meet the byte size requirement...
- Seiren Kasugano... This page has 3975 bytes which means it doesn't meet the byte size requirement...
- The Orchid that Blooms among The Heavens... Once again not a bad page but it's clustered with information and images...
- The Stranger... This page has 3323 bytes which means it doesn't meet the byte size requirement...
- Sanstrocity... This page has 3126 bytes which means it doesn't meet the byte size requirement...
- Category 3: Unsure ones
- Buddy Bear... This page literally just has around six sentences in total for it's High 1-A stats...
- Hop Hoppington-Hoppenhiemer... Doesn't have much information on his Tier 1 stats... Only around 6-7 sentences for it...
- Pendulum of Time... Doesn't meet the byte size requirement but it is a weapon profile so...
- Category 4: Blacklisted Ones... meaning ones that should almost definitely be deleted...
- Jin Kisaragi
- Kazama Ryuichi
- Lebensdauer
- Sylvia Beelzebub
- Schneider Beelzebub
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Thanks for that, Ziel, I'll get to increasing the file size for my own pages soon.
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That was a fast reply and alrighty...
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Good to know my files are good.
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Okay i'm back but not for long as i have a long day in college today, so i'll make my comment here short.
Definitely true that we made our own custom test for high tier characters as Prom noted. Though either one we do will be time consuming, actually.
Thanks for taking the time to go through our Tier 1's here, Ziel....again wished you were here to help me out a long time ago. T-T *Coughs*
Aside that: Exo, Prom. Would either/both of you are willing to check up on these profiles that Ziel has presented to us here and see that they are as what he noted? Also Ziel i did made that exception rule to the bytes requirement if you look at our OC creation rules page but i get you'd want us to at least get the full one...
Definitely true that we made our own custom test for high tier characters as Prom noted. Though either one we do will be time consuming, actually.
Thanks for taking the time to go through our Tier 1's here, Ziel....again wished you were here to help me out a long time ago. T-T *Coughs*
Aside that: Exo, Prom. Would either/both of you are willing to check up on these profiles that Ziel has presented to us here and see that they are as what he noted? Also Ziel i did made that exception rule to the bytes requirement if you look at our OC creation rules page but i get you'd want us to at least get the full one...
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Thank you, Ziel.
I can go through the pages once I get home, and I can make the Tier 1/0 review thread.
I can go through the pages once I get home, and I can make the Tier 1/0 review thread.
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And thank you for you too on doing this as well, Prom. Yeah you're in charge of going through the pages that he presented to us here and of the Tier 1/0 review thread as you've said. *Nods*
@Everyone else: Do note that the temporary rule of not making any more Tier 1's, let alone 0's, is still in effect. So you if you see anyone new or even old here that makes them, please inform either Exo or Prom about this to possibly delete it, as we're not nearly done with this JUST YET. Once we have the rules that Prom and any of y'all have made here the other days are set, that's when it'll be lifted upon...
@Everyone else: Do note that the temporary rule of not making any more Tier 1's, let alone 0's, is still in effect. So you if you see anyone new or even old here that makes them, please inform either Exo or Prom about this to possibly delete it, as we're not nearly done with this JUST YET. Once we have the rules that Prom and any of y'all have made here the other days are set, that's when it'll be lifted upon...
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Alright, I'll look through those profiles and fix my own after the fact. I'll comment on the new thread after I've done the former.
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