The Leper vs Gaia (Baki) - Call to Battle

[Stillwinston]

I might as well give this a shot, Baki vs Darkest Dungeon worked once after all.

Speed is equalised. Both are 9-A, Gaia is in his third key. Leper has no optional equipment. Fight takes place in a gladiator colosseum, SBA otherwise

A former King: 0

Mr War: 4

Incon: 0

The Leper (Darkest Dungeon)

The Leper is a loner, and a warrior-poet, boasting the best independence of any of the adventurers in the Hamlet. The Leper has lived his life knowing the pain of disease and weakness, but has used this experience to become stronger than any other. His wish in life is merely to destroy as many...

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Gaia (Baki)

Do you not hear how your muscles scream for help? Do you understand the results of your selfishness?Gaia Gaia (ガイア, Gaia) is the leader of a soldier group from Hokkaido and was a student of Izou Motobe. Gaia has a split personality. He's an alter of Nomura (野村, Nomura). He is a super-soldier...

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[Stillwinston]

Bump

 

[Stillwinston]

Bump

 

[Stillwinston]

Bump

 

[Stillwinston]

Bump

 

[BakiHanma18]

This seems interesting! I have limited DD knowledge, but I know Baki, and based on profiles, I’d have to lean Gaia. Gaia’s scream wouldn’t work on TL because he resists stun, and a lot of Gaia’s kit wouldn’t work because of TL’s regen, but I think Gaia takes it for 3 reasons: He has his Camo to do to TL what he did to Sikorsky, he has stat amps through Adrenaline, and his Analytical Prediction borders on Precognition, making Gaia potential stronger with Adrenaline, harder to target because of the Camo, and nigh impossible to hit because all of his attacks would be read in advance. The only way Baki bypassed it himself was Instinctive Reaction, A.K.A. fighting without thinking. At that point, once Gaia figures out the regen, he could just use the same Rear Naked Choke/Sleeper Hold Gaia used to kill Baki to circumvent regen by blocking blood flow to the brain instead of damaging anything.

 

[Stillwinston]

Leper's regen isn't combat applicable afaik, that said Lepercan neg stat amps via Intimidate so that balances out. Camo prolly gets negated by Leper's Purge as it can reveal targets who are in stealth so if he tries to go sandy he's getting the wind taken out of it lol

 

[BakiHanma18]

Alright, so where we’re at with Gaia is Analytical Prediction makes him next to impossible to hit and he can do shit like turn water and rocks into bullets, turn blades of grass into knives, and choke and kill Baki with medium difficulty. What is TL’s win con?

 

[Stillwinston]

Leper has AOE attacks thanks to Purge and Hew among other moves so I'd wager he can with some difficulty tag Gaia, turning water and things into projectiles might not be too effective given the strange world of DD and the monsters that inhabit it such as the Weald. Leper also has stat amps and stat debuffs and healing to keep himself in the fight, Remind me again what Gaia's AP is? Leper is like 14KG or smth like that

 

[BakiHanma18]

AOE attacks will definitely help TL at least tag Gaia from time to time depending on the range, maybe even get off some solid blows on occasion
Two points for Gaia’s environmental fighting: 1. I wasn’t aware the fight was taking place in the DD world, I thought it was just a real world gladiator arena, in which Gaia could do like he did in the Korakuren Arena and bombard his opponent with clumps of sand with teeth, bones, and nails in them, and 2. Again, my DD knowledge is limited, but wouldn’t a 9-A hurting another 9-A with things like water/bone bullets or his grass knife (Gaia pelting Sikorsky/Gaia slashing Baki) work regardless of his origin? I’m not sure what the environment is like in DD or if something about it prevents environmental weapons from working but both the water/bone bullets and the grass blade were able to harm 9-As, so wouldn’t they work just as well on TL?
KG? I’m not sure what that scales to in tons, but hopefully that isn’t a typo for KT, because if TL is 14 KT, that’s probably his AP for his 7-C form, as that’s roughly the same strength as base Yujiro with the most powerful/highest calc’d feat he’s performed. Gaia’s AP is 0.02 tons roughly (he’s stronger than Sikorsky, who is in turn roughly comparable to Spec, who performed the 0.02 ton feat, meaning Gaia is likely equal to Spec to some degree, possibly stronger at this point).

 

[Stillwinston]

Done the calc, Leper is 14KG which apparently translates to 0.0154324 tons. Leper's tier 7 ap is like 3KT (Tho he no sells the calc iirc)

 

[BakiHanma18]

Done the calc, Leper is 14KG which apparently translates to 0.0154324 tons. Leper's tier 7 ap is like 3KT (Tho he no sells the calc iirc)

I got roughly the same thing when plugging the Joules calc on his page into a Google converter (0.014722753346), so Gaia is ~1.3x stronger to start

 

[EliminatorVenom]

I like this match, will comment soon.

 

[EliminatorVenom]

Sorry for the rather long time I took to comment, university's been quite time-consuming. Also, before commenting on the match, I must say that I heavily disagree with the Leper's profile speed and, consequently, with the 7-C level.

This match is quite interesting, and I really love novel ideas for matches instead of the more typical ones.

For the fighters themselves, it is relatively simple to gauge them. It may appear that Gaia is stronger; I'd say they are about equal; the feat in the Leper's profile scales to a much weaker character class, and the Leper himself is the most durable one, and one of the strongest hitters, and they get considerably stronger since that feat can be executed. So, for the fairness of the fight, I'll consider them about equal. Speed isn't a factor, so I'll ignore that, but I'll say that Gaia has a definite advantage in mobility and agility. He is WAY more mobile and nimble than the Leper, that even amongst the rather clunky cast of Darkest Dungeon, is a bit of a slowpoke. Skill-wise... Well, I dislike the idea of saying that a character is more skilled in fighting than others, since there are several skillsets within a fight, but really, this is a case that Gaia has a very clear and large advantage. The Leper has greater skills and capabilities against, say, monsters, eldritch creatures and the like, but in a duel, with all the implicit skills? Gaia is one of the greatest tacticians in Baki, only equaled by Motobe and Musashi; not even Yujiro is quite on his level. Not saying that the Leper is hopeless, far from it, but his experience and skillset pales in comparison to Gaia, and in fact, his combat style is completely countered by Gaia. He is practically made to handle people that are slow, deliberate and precise, even if they are way stronger than him, which the Leper isn't, only easing Gaia's job. I can see, however, the Leper greatly surprising Gaia with some his powers; there are some things in Darkest Dungeons comparable in Baki, but lots of others that Gaia hasn't seen before, like Solemnity (A holy light that heals him and buffs certain resistances). I can see Gaia being caught by surprise and the Leper taking advantage of that. However, I must point out that unlike some, like the Occultist (Which would completely flabbergast Gaia and negate a good part of his combat skills), most of the Leper's powers are actually kinda similar to some we see in Baki; of course, not quite the same and would resist some attempts of Gaia to counter them, but otherwise pretty similar.

The arena is simple. A colosseum, with direct view to each other, sand between their toes. Seeing how Gaia used it in his fight against Sikorsky, I think this arena favors him, but not by much. The Leper can outright negate his camouflage with Purge, sending a cleansing shockwave that would dissipate the sand and reveal Gaia, that also acts as an AoE in the case Gaia manages to sneak by.

All in all? I think the fight has a clear winner in Gaia. Leper hits hard and tanks hard; Withstand and Solemnity would allow him to take a lot more punishment, and Intimidate would reduce Gaia's durability and attack power. Gaia wouldn't be able to stun him by yelling with his buffs and stun resistance, his camouflage wouldn't really work. His more agressive bleeding tactics wouldn't work very well with the bleed resistance. Those are the good parts and what the Leper has going for him. The bad ones? Intimidate would Mark himself, which in Darkest Dungeon acts as exposing yourself more and calling for attention, which is something you really don't want to do when fighting Gaia. If Gaia gets close, his skillset would no doubt allow him to dominate the Leper in H2H and mostly negate any form of superior durability by doing nasty stuff to him, like what Che did to that poor prison sop (Slamming a finger down the eardrum, gouging eyes, real nasty stuff). While Gaia certainly wouldn't have many of his sneaky abilities, with the Leper negating many of them, he doesn't really need them, he can match the Leper directly just fine and dominate him using dirty tactics and his sheer skill, like how he did to Sikorsky and Baki.

Not an easy fight for him, that's for sure; Like I said, Withstand in particular would be troublesome to Gaia, I can see him attempting an eye gouge or something and the Leper's eye just not coming out, being surprised and retreating, and the other skills. But I frankly don't see the Leper landing a good solid hit on him, nor how he could effectively fight back when Gaia got really close.

 

[BakiHanma18]

Wow... I mean, that’s... good shit @EliminatorVenom after reading a bit into it, I was deadass about to change my vote to whatever you voted for (you come off as extremely knowledgeable of both verses), but it looks like I’m in the clear after finishing the read lol

 

[Stillwinston]

Yeah u got awesome typing and assessment skills vro, just wanna ask why ur disagreeing with the tier 7 feat for DD? I mean the heroes no sell an explosion of a giant place that was done by said feat performer merely being born no? Plus they're pretty much at ground zero of that as well

 

[EliminatorVenom]

Wow... I mean, that’s... good shit @EliminatorVenom after reading a bit into it, I was deadass about to change my vote to whatever you voted for (you come off as extremely knowledgeable of both verses), but it looks like I’m in the clear after finishing the read lol

Thanks dude, appreciated. I am a fan of both, read Baki up to the point of Musashi fighting Hanayama, but not to the end of the fight (Couldn't find the following editions and I sorta focused on other manga) and finished Darkest Dungeons a few times.

Yeah u got awesome typing and assessment skills vro, just wanna ask why ur disagreeing with the tier 7 feat for DD? I mean the heroes no sell an explosion of a giant place that was done by said feat performer merely being born no? Plus they're pretty much at ground zero of that as well

For one, I heavily dislike calculations for personal reasons, I really don't think they work in fiction for most of the time. Secondly, the calculation itself seems too full of assumptions and, frankly, the whole scene is questionable. I'd argue if it was real destruction, if it was just reality warp, if it was destruction that was focused on the terrain rather than on the characters as a consequence of the Sleeper's manifestation but itself cannot reach that level with normal attacks... I mean, it's a mess. And the speed is objectively wrong, the attacks aren't light light beams or anything of the genre, they are magical attacks that contain light, rather than being directed. But as I said, my opinion doesn't matter really, and it isn't relevant for this fight.

 

[NotoriouSoda]

Sorry for the rather long time I took to comment, university's been quite time-consuming. Also, before commenting on the match, I must say that I heavily disagree with the Leper's profile speed and, consequently, with the 7-C level.

This match is quite interesting, and I really love novel ideas for matches instead of the more typical ones.

For the fighters themselves, it is relatively simple to gauge them. It may appear that Gaia is stronger; I'd say they are about equal; the feat in the Leper's profile scales to a much weaker character class, and the Leper himself is the most durable one, and one of the strongest hitters, and they get considerably stronger since that feat can be executed. So, for the fairness of the fight, I'll consider them about equal. Speed isn't a factor, so I'll ignore that, but I'll say that Gaia has a definite advantage in mobility and agility. He is WAY more mobile and nimble than the Leper, that even amongst the rather clunky cast of Darkest Dungeon, is a bit of a slowpoke. Skill-wise... Well, I dislike the idea of saying that a character is more skilled in fighting than others, since there are several skillsets within a fight, but really, this is a case that Gaia has a very clear and large advantage. The Leper has greater skills and capabilities against, say, monsters, eldritch creatures and the like, but in a duel, with all the implicit skills? Gaia is one of the greatest tacticians in Baki, only equaled by Motobe and Musashi; not even Yujiro is quite on his level. Not saying that the Leper is hopeless, far from it, but his experience and skillset pales in comparison to Gaia, and in fact, his combat style is completely countered by Gaia. He is practically made to handle people that are slow, deliberate and precise, even if they are way stronger than him, which the Leper isn't, only easing Gaia's job. I can see, however, the Leper greatly surprising Gaia with some his powers; there are some things in Darkest Dungeons comparable in Baki, but lots of others that Gaia hasn't seen before, like Solemnity (A holy light that heals him and buffs certain resistances). I can see Gaia being caught by surprise and the Leper taking advantage of that. However, I must point out that unlike some, like the Occultist (Which would completely flabbergast Gaia and negate a good part of his combat skills), most of the Leper's powers are actually kinda similar to some we see in Baki; of course, not quite the same and would resist some attempts of Gaia to counter them, but otherwise pretty similar.

The arena is simple. A colosseum, with direct view to each other, sand between their toes. Seeing how Gaia used it in his fight against Sikorsky, I think this arena favors him, but not by much. The Leper can outright negate his camouflage with Purge, sending a cleansing shockwave that would dissipate the sand and reveal Gaia, that also acts as an AoE in the case Gaia manages to sneak by.

All in all? I think the fight has a clear winner in Gaia. Leper hits hard and tanks hard; Withstand and Solemnity would allow him to take a lot more punishment, and Intimidate would reduce Gaia's durability and attack power. Gaia wouldn't be able to stun him by yelling with his buffs and stun resistance, his camouflage wouldn't really work. His more agressive bleeding tactics wouldn't work very well with the bleed resistance. Those are the good parts and what the Leper has going for him. The bad ones? Intimidate would Mark himself, which in Darkest Dungeon acts as exposing yourself more and calling for attention, which is something you really don't want to do when fighting Gaia. If Gaia gets close, his skillset would no doubt allow him to dominate the Leper in H2H and mostly negate any form of superior durability by doing nasty stuff to him, like what Che did to that poor prison sop (Slamming a finger down the eardrum, gouging eyes, real nasty stuff). While Gaia certainly wouldn't have many of his sneaky abilities, with the Leper negating many of them, he doesn't really need them, he can match the Leper directly just fine and dominate him using dirty tactics and his sheer skill, like how he did to Sikorsky and Baki.

Not an easy fight for him, that's for sure; Like I said, Withstand in particular would be troublesome to Gaia, I can see him attempting an eye gouge or something and the Leper's eye just not coming out, being surprised and retreating, and the other skills. But I frankly don't see the Leper landing a good solid hit on him, nor how he could effectively fight back when Gaia got really close.

Uhhhhh wow incredible response

Gaia for all of these reasons

 

[Stillwinston]

Bump

 

[Stillwinston]

Bump

 

[Armorchompy]

Gaia FRA

Though, the tier 7 calc looks a bit wonky to me too.

 

[Stillwinston]

Well I guess I can make a CRT about it down the line, any idea for what it could be reclassed as?

 

[Armorchompy]

As in, the feat or the AP? Former looks like reality warping, or maybe a feat with too many assumptions to be calculable (Especially since even in the endgame bullets and other relatively mundane attacks hurt you, so I'd consider it an outlier). As for the latter, probably 9-A if we have nothing better.

 

[EliminatorVenom]

I agree. Again, I won't call myself a specialist or someone with superior opinions, nor is this the adequate thread for debating stuff like that, but 7-C DD makes no sense. My heavy dislike for calculations notwithstanding (seriously, the very concept usually doesn't makes sense), that feat makes way too many assumptions and is very weird to simply shrug off as destruction.

 

[Stillwinston]

Best to hold off on any downgrades iirc DD2 is coming out this year and iirc they're using 3D models so that will make for better feat calcs/individual keys I'm sure

 

[Armorchompy]

Even then that'd probably make for different keys.

 

[Stillwinston]

Mhm

 

[Stillwinston]

Bump?