The Imaginary High-Godly (Instant Death)

[SweetDao]

Regarding High-Godly Renegeration. The current justification is as follows :

"High-Godly; She can regenerate herself after perfect annihilation, which includes the destruction of her body, soul, mind, concept and nonexistent physiology. Regenerated seconds after being conceptually erased by Rick's sword.[2] Gods can still regenerate from states[3][4] like causality erasure and complete erasure.[5] Erasure such as complete erasure include history, plot, spiritual, conceptual, mental, and information erasure."

I'll not delve into the other aspect for now, but does anyone have any scan that proves this? Because from what I've seen on another wiki, which is made, from what I know, by the same supporters here, that justification is gone. So yeah, does anyone have any idea?

Regarding High-Godly Regeneration 2.

Currently, the only supporting evidence for High-Godly is this scene which isn't even available as scans but only as a reference for the justification. I had to go on another wiki to get the scene, that's not normal. Anyway.

To briefly explain, Rick is someone who once killed a goddess. It made him not only a God-Slayer, but the sword itself got imbued with the concept of "God-Slaying". In the scene used as a justification, it is explained that the "combination of him being a god-slayer and the sword itself reinforce his god-slaying capability to a conceptual level". After a little bit of stuff, Rick destroys UEG's divine core, her body disappears, her presence vanishes and Rick claims that "UEG got erased." but she still came back.

Rick killed his first goddess thanks to the situation itself. She was weak and injured, therefore it was "easy" to destroy the divine core of said goddess. However, this is not the case with UEG, only her leg was injured. In fact, we can infer that it is his sword that allowed him to reach the divine core in the first place, since his sword has "god-slaying" capabilities.
Allow me to give a non-cropped version of the first scan given for the justification. As you can see, the whole "conceptual stuff" is just him getting a buff toward gods, really. During the scene that serves as proof, there is no mention of UEG's concept being erased or anything similar.

Moreover, a similar scene occurred when the Hedgehog killed Malna. Literally the same stuff. Someone destroys the divine core of a god, it dies, and its body disappears. The only meaningful difference is Rick saying "UEG got erased" and UEG coming back. There is no implication her concept got erased. For a verse that has always been so straightforward, that doesn't make any sense.

UEG even mentions this in the next volume. She indirectly implied that destroying/erasing/killing her concept would be the correct path to get rid of her.

So yeah, High-Godly should go. It can probably be replaced by Mid-Godly, I suppose, I'm unsure. It could work, since UEG implies that her concept needs to be destroyed to do something meaningful against her.

Agree : KingNanaya, Quintessence_PE, Dark_Soul20189, LephyrTheRevanchist (Waiting for supporters), DarkDragonMedeus, Rutæhh, Mr. Bambu, Ihsjihahxu, Deidalius, Nexus_still_slams, ActuallySpaceMan42

Disagree : Elizhaa (Probably at least a rewording?), Dereck03 (Agree with Elizhaa point, so probably the same), NIK_FARIS, Vietthai96 (I think?)

Neutral :

 

[KingNanaya]

I agree with removing high godly. not sure what exactly it should be replaced with though.

 

[SweetDao]

I agree with removing high godly. not sure what exactly it should be replaced with though.

Thank u cutie patootie

 

[Quintessence_PE]

this looks good sweet I agree with you

 

[Dark_Soul20189]

Yeah, High godly regeneration seems wrong. Not sure what to replace it with though. Either way I agree.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

Based on just OP, seems correct that High Godly isn't properly justified.

Who are the main supporters for the verse? So I can tag them here.

 

[SweetDao]

Based on just OP, seems correct that High Godly isn't properly justified.

Who are the main supporters for the verse? So I can tag them here.

The first one that comes to mind is Oblivion of the Endless, there is also Elizaa alongside Everything12 iirc.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

@Oblivion_Of_The_Endless @Elizhaa @Everything12

Sorry for the random tag, can you please give your thoughts here?

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Looks alright.

 

[Rutæhh]

agree

 

[Elizhaa]

After UEG fought Touichiro, she fully erased him and still thought he could come back, which supports the notion of High-Godly given the total erasure, and UEG have a conceptual manipulation on her profile like from being god, which is somewhat common in the sea, which is around the upper tier of the verse (Volume 10 chapter 19).

• https://gyazo.com/9f331d4a3b79dae99ba4dc8931139155

There is supporting evidence that Touichiro simply ran off after coming back, even after UEG’s erasure (Volume 11, Chapter 12):

• https://gyazo.com/8d96e647f23271d6f58bda19c0405ee3
• https://gyazo.com/b0c111eda62bdfd677eca7abe2d1aef9

The key point is that they would appear over time, even if killed or erased, in these context.

 

[Dereck03]

I agree with Elizhaa's points.

 

[SweetDao]

After UEG fought Touichiro, she fully erased him and still thought he could come back, which supports the notion of High-Godly given the total erasure, and UEG have a conceptual manipulation on her profile like from being god, which is somewhat common in the sea, which is around the upper tier of the verse (Volume 10 chapter 19).

• https://gyazo.com/9f331d4a3b79dae99ba4dc8931139155

No mention of UEG erasing his concept. She even bring up the possibility of him reviving somewhere else.

There is supporting evidence that Touichiro simply ran off after coming back, even after UEG’s erasure (Volume 11, Chapter 12):

• https://gyazo.com/8d96e647f23271d6f58bda19c0405ee3
• https://gyazo.com/b0c111eda62bdfd677eca7abe2d1aef9

The key point is that they would appear over time, even if killed or erased, in these context.

Yeah and that's resurrection, not regeneration.

I don't doubt the fact that Gods, no matter their level, have some sort of resurrection. The point I'm trying to bring is that, even with the scenes you added to explain your point, there is no mention whatsoever of their concept being erased. Furthermore, the scans you brought weren't even the supporting evidence for High-Godly in the first place since it all comes down to "Rick and UEG fight".

Also, what is your position on the first part? Do you agree that the whole "total erasure erased all kind of things" is wrong?

 

[Elizhaa]

No mention of UEG erasing his concept. She even bring up the possibility of him reviving somewhere else.

The point is she totally erased; there are things like battlesong abilities that God can replicate or create that have such effects. Like from MalnaRina's powers, one of the battlesong powers they made is that it can cut everything, including concepts, and relating to this ability, from MalnaRilna, there is an ability that can erase everything, which should include concepts.

The statements from the scans about the gods to come back and the erasure statements from the scans are type 3 statements so they should serve as strong evidence by themselves since they were made by a god who is nigh-omniscient and a powerful and advanced civilization of sorts that should be 2-A, likely Low 1-C. From Occam's razor, it somewhat makes less sense that total erasure would not include anything like concepts or causality since it is common there, especially within UEG's context of erasing Touichiro; Touichiro's situation should somewhat serve as evidence since it is made by a god like UEG and a character, whose statements are type 3 statements and are familiar with gods, believes he could.

 

[SweetDao]

The point is she totally erased; there are things like battlesong abilities that God can replicate or create that have such effects. Like from MalnaRina's powers, one of the battlesong powers they made is that it can cut everything, including concepts, and relating to this ability, from MalnaRilna, there is an ability that can erase everything, which should include concepts.

"Should". It's not because Gods do have conceptual manipulation that anything they do necessarily is conceptual.

The statements about coming from erasure and the state they can return to are like type 3 statements so they should serve as strong evidence by themselves since they were made by a god who is nigh-omniscient and a powerful and advanced civilization of sorts that could be at the upper end of Tier 2.

You seem to be misunderstanding me. I'm not saying that "they can't return from total erasure". I'm saying that Total Erasure doesn't erase conceptually. Also, my question was more about "Do you truly see no problem with having each Gods having High-Godly in "History, spiritual, concepts, plot,..." ?

Also, you're clearly facing a problem here. If you're assuming that Total Erasure "erase everything", why is Causality Erasure, which is listed as "one of the erasure Gods can survive" just after? That's like saying "I can destroy the planet and also this town", this makes no sense.

From Occam's razor, it somewhat makes less sense that total erasure would not include anything like concepts or causality since it is common there, especially within UEG's context of erasing Touichiro; Touichiro's situation should somewhat serve as evidence since it is made by a god like UEG and a character, whose statements are type 3 statements and are familiar with gods, believes he could.

I don't agree with this at all. This is using powerscaling logic to justify something never shown in the verse. The novel itself goes against what you are claiming. Also, your point about "total erasure should include causality" is wrong since it's listed as something different from Total Erasure in the first place, as I stated before. No one in the verse has regenerated themselves from getting "their body, mind, soul and concept" being erased. The closest you have is UEG implying you'll need to get her concept destroy to actually do something meaningful against her.

Few examples :

Malna getting killed by the Wandering Witch => The Witch just pushed her arm through Malna's chest (probably destroying her divine core) => she dies => No mention of her concept being erased.

Malna getting killed by the Hedgehog => Same Hedgehog who doesn't have conceptual manipulation on his profile => she dies by getting her divine core destroy => No mention of concept being erased.

Rick killing Vahanato before getting his "God-Killing concept buff" => He just slashed the divine core of Vahanato => She dies, confirmed by Aoi.

Toichiro erasing UEG alongside a universe => No mention of him erasing the universe or her conceptually

UEG erasing Toichirio => She punched him, making his body disappear and "made extra sure" he wouldn't come back like she did => No mention of his concept being erased.

Malna and Toichiro both have "High-Godly over time" yet, they both never experienced getting conceptually destroyed. You can probably dismiss the above case for UEG since she's just built differently, but beside assuming that "in all those instances, the characters were using conceptual erasure even when it was never stated" you can clearly see there is a problem.

Edit : Also, you're using Toichiro as an example, but the author seems to indirectly say that he was indeed completely dead and later resurrected by Mitsuki. That would render moot his "supposed High Godly" since he didn't "regenerate" from it.

 

[SweetDao]

I'll add to this a little something.

UEG herself explains that beside Gods of her level, "lower Gods" will die when their divine core is destroyed. So, you'll have to explain to me what is a divine core (There is no explanation in the novel). It is clearly something not conceptual by nature, since UEG's statement about her "concept of being" makes it impossible for a divine core to harbor the concept of a God, so no matter what, you can't argue that "lower gods" have High-Godly, even over time. I don't even understand that "over time" thing, it's just resurrection. Immortality type 4. Why would it need to be a regeneration if they just "spawn back" after a set period of time?

 

[KingNanaya]

After UEG fought Touichiro, she fully erased him and still thought he could come back, which supports the notion of High-Godly given the total erasure, and UEG have a conceptual manipulation on her profile like from being god, which is somewhat common in the sea, which is around the upper tier of the verse (Volume 10 chapter 19).

• https://gyazo.com/9f331d4a3b79dae99ba4dc8931139155

There is supporting evidence that Touichiro simply ran off after coming back, even after UEG’s erasure (Volume 11, Chapter 12):

• https://gyazo.com/8d96e647f23271d6f58bda19c0405ee3
• https://gyazo.com/b0c111eda62bdfd677eca7abe2d1aef9

The key point is that they would appear over time, even if killed or erased, in these context.

Isn't erasure of mind, body, and soul just mid godly? What fundamental aspect is also being erased in addition to those 3?

 

[Vietthai96]

Yeah and that's resurrection, not regeneration

I just want to say something, most of the time, resurrection and regeneration at high level are overlapping each other. Literally the moment your body, soul, mind or sometime more fundamental aspects of your get destroyed you are generally considered as dead anyway, so regen from this "dead" state is no different than resurrect your self back to life. So nitpicking word/sematic in these cases is pointless and, no offend, low effort argument

 

[KingNanaya]

I just want to say something, most of the time, resurrection and regeneration at high level are overlapping each other. Literally the moment your body, soul, mind or sometime more fundamental aspects of your get destroyed you are generally considered as dead anyway, so regen from this "dead" state is no different than resurrect your self back to life. So nitpicking word/sematic in these cases is pointless and, no offend, low effort argument

I'm pretty sure that still wouldn't be listed on the profile as regeneration, and that the justification would go under resurrection regardless. And there still isn't any "fundamental aspect" that has been shown, from what I've seen.

 

[Vietthai96]

I'm pretty sure that still wouldn't be listed on the profile as regeneration, and that the justification would go under resurrection regardless. And there still isn't any "fundamental aspect" that has been shown, from what I've seen.

I said in general, people should stop nitpicking regeneration and resurrection, i don't reaply argue for Instant Death since i'm not the verse expert

 

[KingNanaya]

I said in general, people should stop nitpicking regeneration and resurrection, i don't reaply argue for Instant Death since i'm not the verse expert

Then your comment just seems really out of place. If this is a general gripe you have that is for other verses, and you wanted to vent that somewhere on site, the best place to do that would be in the pet peeves thread under fun and games, not a crt that's completely unrelated to your complaint.

 

[NIK_FARIS]

Disagree.

• Your point all being that “Killing their divine core will kill them” “if you kill their concept, you will be be able rid off them”. Problem here is the fact Getting rid of =/= permanently kill which is the whole point. God can be kill, the problem with that regardless how you kill them even if complete erase them, they will eventually return. How fast would depend on their level of existence. These had been emphasise so many time throughout the series. (Like vol 7 and 8 relating to MalnaRilna or gods in general)(vol 10 and 11 about UEG and gods in general)(and vol 12+ which still reinforce of gods is indestructible). The only exception is those who killed by Yogiri.
• Since you brought ‘the boy’ with had similar ability to Yogiri, her saying it is right approach doesn’t equal permanently killing her as such ability is something common among other gods (at least on her level and above of what not). I don’t mean in a sense that she resist the conceptual attack. Rather it’s the fact that all others gods fights while having similar ability. And even though she had that ability, the ability to kill person’s concept, she can never permanently kill gods. That’s why any and all fight involving gods would always end up with one party being sealed away.
• About the resurrection part for Toichirou, the resurrection isn’t in a sense of conventional way like brought the original person back to life. She record information that make up Toichirou’s existence before completely erase him. By using that, she can reconstruct him. All gods had the power to manipulate, change, alter, erase etc information shown by how gods is stated to manipulate fundamental building blocks of reality and manipulate the world core which compromise information that make up the world. So to actually destroy HR isn’t simply conceptual destruction but information as well. This goes back with with how when HRE/CFE devour the HR, everything that make up the world become part of it.
• Other supporting fact is when Toichirou erase her and the universe in which context of universe within ID had always greater than space-time continuum. Technically speaking, we can applied this to every other beings who could easily destroy the HR like Sea Bandit, HRE, God Slayer etc etc. Abilities of erasure include historical erasure as stated that abilities of such common even in the Sea and the most direct would be the fact that Mitsuki couldn’t permanently kill UEG and Luu eventhough he have ability to erase someone across past present and future.

So at the very least the gods still should have High-Godly in term of CM, IM 2 and History

 

[KingNanaya]

Since you brought ‘the boy’ with had similar ability to Yogiri, her saying it is right approach doesn’t equal permanently killing her as such ability is something common among other gods (at least on her level and above of what not). I don’t mean in a sense that she resist the conceptual attack. Rather it’s the fact that all others gods fights while having similar ability.

None of the text here says that at all.

About the resurrection part for Toichirou, the resurrection isn’t in a sense of conventional way like brought the original person back to life. She record information that make up Toichirou’s existence before completely erase him. By using that, she can reconstruct him.

Then that isn't regen. It's just being revived.

All gods had the power to manipulate, change, alter, erase etc information shown by how gods is stated to manipulate fundamental building blocks of reality and manipulate the world core which compromise information that make up the world. So to actually destroy HR isn’t simply conceptual destruction but information as well.

none of this is relevant or proves high-godly at all.

Other supporting fact is when Toichirou erase her and the universe in which context of universe within ID had always greater than space-time continuum. Technically speaking, we can applied this to every other beings who could easily destroy the HR like Sea Bandit, HRE, God Slayer etc etc. Abilities of erasure include historical erasure as stated that abilities of such common even in the Sea

that isn't what it says at all

Mitsuki couldn’t permanently kill UEG and Luu eventhough he have ability to erase someone across past present and future.

You don't need high godly to erase someone in all moments of time, I'm fairly certain. Erasing someone from history and erasing a person's history are different.

Your point all being that “Killing their divine core will kill them” “if you kill their concept, you will be be able rid off them”. Problem here is the fact Getting rid of =/= permanently kill which is the whole point. God can be kill, the problem with that regardless how you kill them even if complete erase them, they will eventually return.

This just isn't evidence for high godly.

To be completely honest, I don't even see evidence for mid godly.

@SweetDao you can put me as agree, and change to low godly

 

[Vietthai96]

Then your comment just seems really out of place. If this is a general gripe you have that is for other verses, and you wanted to vent that somewhere on site, the best place to do that would be in the pet peeves thread under fun and games, not a crt that's completely unrelated to your complaint.

Literally @SweetDao sematically nitpicking the word "revive" to be resurrection not regeneration as a counter-argument against @Elizhaa argument, i attacked that kind of argument, so i don't know why suddenly you claim my "rant" is not related to the CRT as i counter that kind of thinking with my argument

 

[Robo432343]

yeah vietthai is right here

 

[KingNanaya]

Literally @SweetDao sematically nitpicking the word "revive"

It's not the fact that it uses the word "revive", it's the fact that is actually what's happening.

i don't know why suddenly you claim my "rant" is not related to the CRT

Because you said:

I said in general, people should stop nitpicking regeneration and resurrection, i don't reaply argue for Instant Death since i'm not the verse expert

 

[NIK_FARIS]

None of the text here says that at all.

Did you just skim through? Dude, at least click the link properly. My point that even though she had similar ability as that boy, that is to kill concept of person, she can’t permanently kill a god

Then that isn't regen. It's just being revived.

Your point? Normal type reviving involve resurrection of soul or something similar. As stated, Regeneration and Resurrection at extreme point does overlap one another like what Viethaii said. To put it simply, to simply call it being normal resurrection is simply over downplayed. Unless you want to call it Resurrection High-Godly which I don’t know whether it’s something in this wiki

none of this is relevant or proves high-godly at all.

It relevant that even though people had abilities to do such, there was never the case of god’s permanently dying.

that isn't what it says at all

The point above is my attempt to correlate with what Toichirou doing. Context of universe in ID like HR is not simply singular world/space-time but rather consist of many kind of worlds which include countless parallel world, Abyss etc etc ad there also the case when UEG attempt to destroy everything, (regardless how you want to treat the place as simply dream or etc), her intention is there and she stated destruction from smaller to much greater “I-in that case, I will incinerate everything! Time! Space! The universe! The higher-level universe that encompasses this one!,”

You don't need high godly to erase someone in all moments of time, I'm fairly certain. Erasing someone from history and erasing a person's history are different.

This just isn't evidence for high godly.

You need though? There are high-godly if you able to regenerate from history erasure which is the case here, its not like he remove simply memories of others of the person, the statement there meant literally.

 

[SweetDao]

Damn, there was some traction. I'll answer everyone in a bit, just the time of waking.

 

[KingNanaya]

My point that even though she had similar ability as that boy, that is to kill concept of person, she can’t permanently kill a god

the text doesn't say that "all others gods fights while having similar ability" to the attempting the erasure.

Your point?

I'm pretty sure that still wouldn't be listed on the profile as regeneration, and that the justification would go under resurrection regardless. And there still isn't any "fundamental aspect" that has been shown, from what I've seen.

this

You need though?

let me put it like this:

there are two types of history erasure, physical and historical.

Physical involves physically erasing someone across time. this would not be high godly, as your physical body is not a fundamental aspect of reality

Historical erasure involves erasing the very evidence that someone even existed without any trace, including from memories. this would be high godly, as something fundamental is being erased.

its not like he remove simply memories of others of the person, the statement there meant literally.

thank you for conceding this.

 

[NIK_FARIS]

the text doesn't say that "all others gods fights while having similar ability" to the attempting the erasure.

Well, I guess I should clarified further what I mean. The Boy had ability to kill person’s concept and attempt to do it toward UEG, UEG able to resist it because she can also do the same thing as him. She with that ability still can’t permanently kill god’s.

this

let me put it like this:

there are two types of history erasure, physical and historical.

Physical involves physically erasing someone across time. this would not be high godly, as your physical body is not a fundamental aspect of reality

Historical erasure involves erasing the very evidence that someone even existed without any trace, including from memories. this would be high godly, as something fundamental is being erased.

thank you for conceding this.

Oh you just need the memories part? Well, my bad for not try include that. Let me screenshot that part again.

Edit: I just notice, That part already include the completely gone from the memory as well though..

 

[KingNanaya]

Well, I guess I should clarified further what I mean. The Boy had ability to kill person’s concept and attempt to do it toward UEG, UEG able to resist it because she can also do the same thing as him. She with that ability still can’t permanently kill god’s.

that isn't what is shown through the text. rather, it's not what it means when she says "If we both are capable, then it becomes a simple contest of strength". The way I see it, it means that if it were possible for them too, then the fight would just be about who could hit who first

Oh you just need the memories part? Well, my bad for not try include that. Let me screenshot that part again.

it's a bit more than memories, but memories are a part of it.

 

[Vietthai96]

It's not the fact that it uses the word "revive", it's the fact that is actually what's happening.

Again, as i said before, we too nitpicking on these kind of feat, power/abilities often overlapping each others

Because you said:

I said in general, but at the same time i my comment replied to Dao argument cause i want to counter that kind of thinking, sorry if i'm not make myself clear

 

[NIK_FARIS]

that isn't what is shown through the text. rather, it's not what it means when she says "If we both are capable, then it becomes a simple contest of strength". The way I see it, it means that if it were possible for them too, then the fight would just be about who could hit who first

Umm, what are you trying to said here though? My point is that eventhough she had killed many gods, she never able to permanently kill them eventhough she capable of doing the same thing as ‘the boy’. Perhaps, you confuse because I said that all other gods can do the same thing. Let’s ignore ’that’ part for now

 

[KingNanaya]

My point is that eventhough she had killed many gods, she never able to permanently kill them

this doesn't prove that she erased any of them.

eventhough she capable of doing the same thing as ‘the boy’

I don't believe she is

 

[SweetDao]

I just want to say something, most of the time, resurrection and regeneration at high level are overlapping each other. Literally the moment your body, soul, mind or sometime more fundamental aspects of your get destroyed you are generally considered as dead anyway, so regen from this "dead" state is no different than resurrect your self back to life. So nitpicking word/sematic in these cases is pointless and, no offend, low effort argument

"Most of the time it's the case".

No, just no. Because if that was the case, everyone having some sort of immortality type 4 (be it a rather quick one or a long one) would have Low-Godly on their profile as default.

I... don't see the point you're trying to make just after. In some verse, destroying your head is enough for you to die. Destroying your mind might be enough. Destroying your soul might be enough. Independently or not of the rest. In all those case you might be dead and if you didn't "regenerate" from the attack but "needed numerous years to suddenly come back to life" it's not regeneration, it's resurrection.

I said in general, people should stop nitpicking regeneration and resurrection, i don't reaply argue for Instant Death since i'm not the verse expert

I'm not nitpicking here. I don't mind if they keep some form of regen and resurrection since that's literally the case, the problem is the degree behind their abilities.

our point all being that “Killing their divine core will kill them” “if you kill their concept, you will be be able rid off them”. Problem here is the fact Getting rid of =/= permanently kill which is the whole point. God can be kill, the problem with that regardless how you kill them even if complete erase them, they will eventually return. How fast would depend on their level of existence. These had been emphasise so many time throughout the series. (Like vol 7 and 8 relating to MalnaRilna or gods in general)(vol 10 and 11 about UEG and gods in general)(and vol 12+ which still reinforce of gods is indestructible). The only exception is those who killed by Yogiri.

No, I think there is a misunderstanding.

Low-Level gods will be killed (aka, put into the sea of darkness, unable to interact with reality or doing anything remotely meaningful) when their divine core is destroyed. Sure, Malna will respawn in numerous years, same with Vahanato iirc, they aren't literally "erased from the UEW" since that's Yogiri's job.

Yes, even if you erased them, they will respawn, we both agree on this.

And sure, we agree with Yogiri. Although, if we need to be extremely precise, they could still be technically revived if killed accidentally.

ince you brought ‘the boy’ with had similar ability to Yogiri, her saying it is right approach doesn’t equal permanently killing her as such ability is something common among other gods (at least on her level and above of what not). I don’t mean in a sense that she resist the conceptual attack. Rather it’s the fact that all others gods fights while having similar ability. And even though she had that ability, the ability to kill person’s concept, she can never permanently kill gods. That’s why any and all fight involving gods would always end up with one party being sealed away.

Again, I might have not conveyed my intent in a clear way. I'm not saying "Hey, if the boy was a bit stronger and actually was intelligent, he would have erased UEG's concept, and she would be completely and totally erased from the UEW just like what Yogiri did", I'm saying that instead of low-level god, to actually incapacitate her to some degree you have to interact with her concept. Which, I mean, it's in the novel, I think you'll agree with me on that.

I'm glad you brought up that point in the first scan, I was waiting for someone to do so, to be fair. Thing is, while I agree that lower-gods "should" have the same powers as other, just in different range of powers in general, with the introduction of "True Gods" at the level of UEG, you can't be sure that someone can do so just because they are a god.

Yes, she does have that ability, which she calls an "underhanded tactic" at the same time. It's not because she has that ability and that "she believes Gods to be indestructible and eternal beings" that it necessarily means that "hey, gods can regenerate from this!". All that matter is that after numerous years, they will come back, eventually. By the way, Luu which is a goddess on a similar level as UEG, will take some time to come back after getting erased. Again, it's a feat of resurrection, not of regeneration here. Just in case it's brought up, we don't exactly know how she got erased, we just know she vanished while fighting the demon king.

I mean, yeah, sealing might be the better plan if you're not interested in fighting every x time the same individual. Again, the fact they do come back don't correlate with regeneration. They just come back. That's immortality type 4.

About the resurrection part for Toichirou, the resurrection isn’t in a sense of conventional way like brought the original person back to life. She record information that make up Toichirou’s existence before completely erase him. By using that, she can reconstruct him. All gods had the power to manipulate, change, alter, erase etc information shown by how gods is stated to manipulate fundamental building blocks of reality and manipulate the world core which compromise information that make up the world. So to actually destroy HR isn’t simply conceptual destruction but information as well. This goes back with with how when HRE/CFE devour the HR, everything that make up the world become part of it.

What? Did I mention Toichirou resurrection? I don't think I did... Anyway, it's a good point, so thank you to bring it up.

Firstly, with the first scan you brought up, you do agree that he was indeed dead then, right? Secondly, UEG made a conscious effort of saving up his information, it's not like she did so with everyone and everything she killed during the arc. The problem here is, why should we assume that his informations were erased too? She could've very well erased him to sent him into the Sea of Darkness without wiping out every possible way of his existence. For someone as UEG who tend to always fight on the level of the opponent and that thinks "killing the concept of someone" is an underhanded tactic, it doesn't seem out of the way.

I could erase you (no ill intent) without erasing your information and yet still record them if I want to clone you or something.

I have no problem with the few scans you sent afterward. It's one of the main reasons they have RW in the first place. Similarly, I have again no problem with your HRE example.

Other supporting fact is when Toichirou erase her and the universe in which context of universe within ID had always greater than space-time continuum. Technically speaking, we can applied this to every other beings who could easily destroy the HR like Sea Bandit, HRE, God Slayer etc etc. Abilities of erasure include historical erasure as stated that abilities of such common even in the Sea and the most direct would be the fact that Mitsuki couldn’t permanently kill UEG and Luu eventhough he have ability to erase someone across past present and future.

I don't understand what the first sentence does change. They could fight in a High 1-A or even tier 0 space-time continuum that it wouldn't be important here.

The first link doesn't talk about "historical erasure". Only "Total Erasure" and "Causality Erasure".

Yes and that's Mitsuki who do it, someone stronger than Luu, Alexia and UEG. Even UEG at her prime, by the way.

I think there is a recurring theme here. Let's assume this.

Mitsuki absolutely wanted to kill Luu or UEG. He goes to them, erase them in body, concept, information and history (past, present, future). They die and are sent to the Sea of Darkness. Then what? What's that supposed to prove? Why would it be "high-godly" because they will come back after numerous years? Again, that's resurrection, some people are saying I'm doing semantics, but I don't feel it's the case here.

Also, I feel like the "historical erasure" here is a bit out of context. While Mitsuki can indeed do this, he HAD to do this to get rid of Yogiri since if he remembers someone inside his dream, it means they will still "exist" to some degree within it. We were never explicitly told that Gods can regenerate as long as a part of their history is there.

Did you just skim through? Dude, at least click the link properly. My point that even though she had similar ability as that boy, that is to kill concept of person, she can’t permanently kill a god

I think we're going for the same thing again, so I'll answer the same way. There is no real evidence she erases the concept of her opponent every time she erases someone. Heck, of ALL the novel, this was the ONLY time erasing the concept of someone was ever brought up.

Your point? Normal type reviving involve resurrection of soul or something similar. As stated, Regeneration and Resurrection at extreme point does overlap one another like what Viethaii said. To put it simply, to simply call it being normal resurrection is simply over downplayed. Unless you want to call it Resurrection High-Godly which I don’t know whether it’s something in this wiki

I do agree that in extreme circumstances they may overlap and are hardly discernible. The problem here is that resurrection fits way better than regeneration. I think that's also what happened to Anos not too long ago.

Also, I feel like the fact they come back is a mechanic of the verse, not a specific power they use on themselves or are actively pushing to come back.

In this context, resurrection is infinitely better, in my opinion. They would still have a separate regeneration rating, just not of the same degree.

For lower gods, that would be something like "Resurrection (X level, takes around X times / Not combat applicable. Gods always come back after X time has passed, even if they are killed or erased) + Regen (X level)"

While for Higher-Gods like UEG, she would have a degree higher of regeneration, no matter what.

It relevant that even though people had abilities to do such, there was never the case of god’s permanently dying.

Yeah, sure, but that's again resurrection. Take Malna for example. She truly wanted to go back into the world and was frustrated to not being able to do so. In this state they just can't do much and have to wait to respawn. It's not "Malna's power" that actively trigger the resurrection, it's just how it works.

The point above is my attempt to correlate with what Toichirou doing. Context of universe in ID is not simply singular world/space-time but rather consist of many kind of worlds which include countless parallel world, Abyss etc etc ad there also the case when UEG attempt to destroy everything, (regardless how you want to treat the place as simply dream or etc), her intention is there and she stated destruction from smaller to much greater “I-in that case, I will incinerate everything! Time! Space! The universe! The higher-level universe that encompasses this one!,”

I don't see how it's relevant for the matter at hand. If you're fine with it, can we not talk about this here? I don't mind arguing with you or anything, but that's not the right place for this. At least for now.

You need though? There are high-godly if you able to regenerate from history erasure which is the case here, its not like he remove simply memories of others of the person, the statement there meant literally.

Like I stated a bit above, Mitsuki example is kinda special, since he did this to get rid of any memory of Yogiri in the first place. There is nothing implying in the novel that "Gods can come back as long as a part of their history remains".

Also, the fact that rewinding time is enough to bring back Malna should prove that "their history wasn't erased". I suppose you could go on and say that "Yeah, but Mitsuki is stronger, so he can do those things" but frankly, that would be baseless claims, I think. Same with Toichiro too.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

I've unfortunately read the provided texts from Elizhaa, which should get me some pain and suffering compensation for the act.

I think that in the context of a verse that apparently takes significant pains to spell out how ultra super duper mega special their levels of destruction are, the erasure could reasonably be interpreted as including all of them when they throw around words like "complete erasure". The verse previously mentioned conceptual matters in other evidence provided in this thread.

I do acknowledge that it does not spell it out, however, and to an extent the above interpretation can be flipped by that measure. For a verse that does take such great effort to describe just how awesome each ability is, they certainly avoid describing the specifics for the thing we're working with: if they intended for it to be High-Godly equivalent regeneration, one could then also reasonably assume that by not describing it in detail, that it does not include something like the concept. Later scans even seem to suggest that some element of him does exist still, referencing his 'presence'- this is a vague reference, but it may mean something.

I think the matter is vague enough that it comes entirely down to interpretation, and I acknowledge both interpretations as being basically reasonable. Gun to my head, if I absolutely had to commit my vote to one over the other, I'd vote in favor of the OP that this isn't High-Godly.

 

[SweetDao]

Gun to my head, if I absolutely had to commit my vote to one over the other, I'd vote in favor of the OP that this isn't High-Godly.

We share the same fate. Thank you for coming to the thread!

 

[Ihsjihahxu]

Can I vote?

I think I agree. This is because the story avoids talking about destroying the concept.

 

[SweetDao]

Can I vote?

I think I agree. This is because the story avoids talking about destroying the concept.

All votes will be added, but only the staff really counts. I'll add you, tho.

 

[Deidalius]

I agree with OP.