The Helltaker fights the Kingpin

[Jackythejack]

I decided to spam Helltaker characters. God help you, because the devil sure won't.

Speed equalized
Both combatants start about five meters apart.
For reference; Kingpin scales to .043 tons while Helltaker scales to .023 tons

The Helltaker: 0
Kingpin (Spider-Verse): 0

Spoiler: Thumbnail

I know that's not Spiderverse Kingpin shut up.

Spoiler: Story

Just when our protagonist thought he could enjoy his day, after securing his harem, he had gotten a knock at the door. Answering it, there was a man, as wide as he was tall, who was all but blocking the doorway. On both his sides were two goons, armed with machine guns. The stranger grinned at the Helltaker.

"Hello, there." His voice was smooth, but it sound like he had a plan. A devious one. "I couldn't help but hear that you have recently acquired some...interesting subjects, with unique abilities. Am I correct?"

Helltaker was silent, planning on just lying and saying he had no idea what he was talking about. An explosion and the fire alarm going off in his kitchen cut him off though. "Sorry!" someone shouted back. God dammit, Judgement...

"I'll take that as a yes." Kingpin chuckled. "Listen, demons such as those would be wonderful for a little experiment I've been working on. In light of this development...I'll be taking them off your hands."

...oh hell no.

 

[It_is_i_wyatt]

doesnt the scenario imply that there are also some random kingpin goons and helltakers entire harem there as well

 

[DaReaperMan]

If Helltaker's harem is there then uh, you know, Lucifer has this nasty tendency to turn blood into vinegar, Cerberus can cause heart attacks, and if Beelzebub is there she passives Kingpin to death+is 8-C.

 

[Jackythejack]

guys it's just a random story it's not important focus on the two fighters I listed in the OP ya dopes

 

[Jackythejack]

bump

 

[Jackythejack]

bump

 

[Board3659]

Kingpin has a range weapon while Helltaker doesn't

I think that is already a huge disadvantage

 

[azontr]

Kingpin has a range weapon while Helltaker doesn't

I think that is already a huge disadvantage

Analytical Prediction makes this advantage irrelevant.

 

[Board3659]

Analytical Prediction makes this advantage irrelevant.

yeah forgot.

 

[Board3659]

FRA Helltaker for the prediction idk if his oppnent can hit him tbh since what other stuff does he have

 

[BluudyManikin777]

Helltaker FRA

 

[Jackythejack]

that's two ig

 

[Doggo]

The Helltaker fra

 

[Popted2]

Helltaker FRA

 

[Jackythejack]

4 votes

 

[Mickey1940]

Kingpin was able to kill his homeworld Spider-Man as well as overpower Miles Morales in a brawl, even though both of them have the peter tingle, which is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Helltaker predicting a bunch of fast chains

that plus Kingpin's AP and dura advantage plus range plus martial arts mastery probably means he can eventually overwhelm Helltaker

I vote Kingpin

 

[azontr]

which is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Helltaker predicting a bunch of fast chains

How? Explain, because right now this doesn't even qualify as an argument.

 

[Jackythejack]

yeah you might need to explain that they seem pretty similar

 

[Mickey1940]

You're comparing someone with a literal 6th sense who can predict anything around him at all times, and can even work when every other sense in the body is messed up and grants him an omnidirectional sense of direction

To someone who dodges chains by seeing where they will show up from the glowing warnings on the battlefield
like yeah Judgement is a lot faster than Helltaker but her attacks are ridiculously predictable and they literally warn you where they will come from

Even if you assume that Helltaker's abilities are comparable to Spider Man's, Kingpin still beat up 2 of them. So he's probably not gonna be bothered too much by Helltaker's abilities

 

[BluudyManikin777]

Seems reasonable enough, Kingpin FRA

 

[LaserPrecision]

You're comparing someone with a literal 6th sense who can predict anything around him at all times, and can even work when every other sense in the body is messed up and grants him an omnidirectional sense of direction

To someone who dodges chains by seeing where they will show up from the glowing warnings on the battlefield
like yeah Judgement is a lot faster than Helltaker but her attacks are ridiculously predictable and they literally warn you where they will come from

Even if you assume that Helltaker's abilities are comparable to Spider Man's, Kingpin still beat up 2 of them. So he's probably not gonna be bothered too much by Helltaker's abilities

Those warning indicators are merely a game mechanic. Said warning indicators don't appear in cutscenes when used and it he did see those indicators that would be precog rather than prediction (which I initially opted for, but it was disagreed upon).

He's simply able to predict the chains from every direction in the fight.

 

[Mickey1940]

Those warning indicators are merely a game mechanic. Said warning indicators don't appear in cutscenes when used and it he did see those indicators that would be precog rather than prediction (which I initially opted for, but it was disagreed upon).

He's simply able to predict the chains from every direction in the fight.

In that case it seems rather similar to Spider-Man's Spider Sense

except Helltaker is weaker dumber less skilled less equipped less ranged than Spider Man is

and Kingpin can overwhelm Spider Man on several occasions

so either way Kingpin should be winning

 

[LaserPrecision]

In that case it seems rather similar to Spider-Man's Spider Sense

except Helltaker is weaker dumber less skilled less equipped less ranged than Spider Man is

and Kingpin can overwhelm Spider Man on several occasions

so either way Kingpin should be winning

While I'm not here to disagree (I do agree he's less skilled than Spider-Man by a longshot), how exactly does he bypass Spideys spider-sense? I mean, Helltakers allows him to dodge near danmaku projectiles 50x faster than himself.

 

[Mickey1940]

While I'm not here to disagree (I do agree he's less skilled than Spider-Man by a longshot), how exactly does he bypass Spideys spider-sense? I mean, Helltakers allows him to dodge near danmaku projectiles 50x faster than himself.

idk

Kingpin canonically killed his homeworld spider man and physically beat up Miles Morales

I never watched the show, I'm just going off of the profiles

 

[LaserPrecision]

idk

Kingpin canonically killed his homeworld spider man and physically beat up Miles Morales

I never watched the show, I'm just going off of the profiles

Rip

 

[Doggo]

idk

Kingpin canonically killed his homeworld spider man and physically beat up Miles Morales

I never watched the show, I'm just going off of the profiles

Spider man only died to Kingpin after he was greviously injured from a explosion leaving him vulnerable. He was also only beating up Miles thx to his superior strength. In short, He only bypassed their spider sense because of certain factors that won't happen in this fight.
Helltaker still wins


Also spider verse is a movie not show

 

[Mickey1940]

Spider man only died to Kingpin after he was greviously injured from a explosion leaving him vulnerable. He was also only beating up Miles thx to his superior strength. In short, He only bypassed their spider sense because of certain factors that won't happen in this fight.
Helltaker still wins


Also spider verse is a movie not show

I'm not going to argue about the Spider-Man he killed cuz once again I never watched the movie

but bro

u literally just said

He was also only beating up Miles thx to his superior strength.

Guess who has the AP advantage in this match

Kingpin still wins

 

[BluudyManikin777]

The AP advantage isn’t even that big, Helltaker can still hurt Kingpin, especially with his precognition. Revoting Helltaker via precognition

 

[azontr]

Yeah I'm voting Helltaker.

 

[Mickey1940]

The AP advantage isn’t even that big, Helltaker can still hurt Kingpin, especially with his precognition. Revoting Helltaker via precognition

did you just

not

read my earlier comments

Kingpin can tag and overwhelm someone who has pretty much the exact same abilities as Helltaker
except that particular someone is stronger more experienced and more varied

I also don't even understand why Helltaker has analytical prediction in the first place. He could just have Superhuman running speed and Subsonic reaction speed. Most characters on the wiki are calculated like this. However, some weirdo decided to translate that as analytical prediction for some reason

Kingpin still wins. He's basically fighting a nerfed Spider Man in almost every way.

 

[LaserPrecision]

Kingpin can tag and overwhelm someone who has pretty much the exact same abilities as Helltaker
except that particular someone is stronger more experienced and more varied

Originally I hadn't known u were talking about Spider-verse. Kingpin only killed Spider-Man after he was crippled and held down by someone he hired. Spider-Man wasn't able to even move. I don't remember if Miles Morales had a spider-sense, but at the very least, he was still developing/learning how to use his abilities in the movie and very inexperienced.

I also don't even understand why Helltaker has analytical prediction in the first place. He could just have Superhuman running speed and Subsonic reaction speed. Most characters on the wiki are calculated like this. However, some weirdo decided to translate that as analytical prediction for some reason

Ouch, I'm the 'weirdo'. Well, that and a few people on the CRT who thought it more believable than precog.

It isn't subsonic reaction speed because

1. The chains are Supersonic and Judgement is Subsonic (She has no reason to scale to the chains speed)
2. Helltaker can't dodge them after they're fired. He can only avoid them by predicting in advance where they will be (Which is he trajectory indicators we see in-game). Think of it like a 10x10 grid. The chains can move across the entire grid in 1 second, but it takes Helltaker 2 seconds to move one tile over. Thus it's impossible to avoid after being fired (Otherwise it would be reaction or combat speed).

 

[Doggo]

I suggest watching the movie if you plan to support the character

 

[Mickey1940]

Originally I hadn't known u were talking about Spider-verse. Kingpin only killed Spider-Man after he was crippled and held down by someone he hired. Spider-Man wasn't able to even move. I don't remember if Miles Morales had a spider-sense, but at the very least, he was still developing/learning how to use his abilities in the movie and very inexperienced.

According to Miles's page, his only weaknesses are his inexperience and the fact that he couldn't use invisibility or venom blast. It says nothing about his spider sense. It's pretty safe to assume that he at least knows how to use it well, especially since at this point in the movie he could use pretty much all of his abilities, and yet Kingpin was still able to dominate him

Ouch, I'm the 'weirdo'. Well, that and a few people on the CRT who thought it more believable than precog.

It isn't subsonic reaction speed because

1. The chains are Supersonic and Judgement is Subsonic (She has no reason to scale to the chains speed)
2. Helltaker can't dodge them after they're fired. He can only avoid them by predicting in advance where they will be (Which is he trajectory indicators we see in-game). Think of it like a 10x10 grid. The chains can move across the entire grid in 1 second, but it takes Helltaker 2 seconds to move one tile over. Thus it's impossible to avoid after being fired (Otherwise it would be reaction or combat speed).

I apologize if my comment was offensive, that was not my intention. You're not a weirdo. I'm sure you're an amazing guy/gal in your own right

I meant it in the sense that most other characters on the wiki who don't have very fast travel speed can still have insane reaction speeds. Like for example take literally every human character in the Digimon franchise. Pretty much all of them have like average human running speeds due to them being, well, average humans, but their reaction speeds are ******* immeasurable since they can react to mega digimon holy knight and demon god combat. I see no reason why Helltaker is treated as the single outlier on the entire wiki just because he dodges a couple of chains. I mean yeah you can calc the chains to be moving at a certain speed but how do we know Helltaker isn't just seeing where the chains are going to be fired? Why are the trajectory indicators considered a game mechanic when everything else about the attack isn't? There's way too much that doesn't make any sense for me to personally agree with analytical prediction, and by extension special treatment by the wiki.

You're also not considering how much that analytical prediction translates to hand to hand combat. Sure he can predict where straightline projectiles might be fired at him, but it's much harder to do something like that against another human being with good martial arts skills

Even if you assume that his analytical prediction is legit, that's really not that much different than Spider Sense, which Kingpin has extensive knowledge against and has fight against before, so either way it's not enough of an advantage to decisively say that Helltaker wins

 

[Mickey1940]

bump

 

[LaserPrecision]

I apologize if my comment was offensive, that was not my intention. You're not a weirdo. I'm sure you're an amazing guy/gal in your own right

Lol, it's alright, no hard feelings. Not like you were spewing insults or anything.

I meant it in the sense that most other characters on the wiki who don't have very fast travel speed can still have insane reaction speeds. Like for example take literally every human character in the Digimon franchise. Pretty much all of them have like average human running speeds due to them being, well, average humans, but their reaction speeds are ******* immeasurable since they can react to mega digimon holy knight and demon god combat. I see no reason why Helltaker is treated as the single outlier on the entire wiki just because he dodges a couple of chains.

I agree with that, however, Helltaker doesn't DODGE the chains. He moves out of the way of where they're going to be summoned before they're summoned. Which is just prediction. Digimon can evade Immeasurable speed attacks, which is reaction speed, Helltaker just predicts where the chains are going to be. There's a big difference.

I mean yeah you can calc the chains to be moving at a certain speed but how do we know Helltaker isn't just seeing where the chains are going to be fired?

Because they just magically spawn into existence. He wouldn't be able to see where the chains are going to be fired. He'd have to instinctively guess where they would poof into existence.

Why are the trajectory indicators considered a game mechanic when everything else about the attack isn't? There's way too much that doesn't make any sense for me to personally agree with analytical prediction, and by extension special treatment by the wiki.

Why would the trajectory indicators be anything but a game mechanic? And why would anything else be a game mechanic? To answer your question, the reason the trajectory indicators are just a game mechanic is because the trajectory indicators don't appear in the cutscenes. The chains just spawn into existence. So we know those trajectory indicators are only there for the player, not Helltaker. Because without the trajectory indicators, it would be impossible to beat the level.

 

[DaReaperMan]

it would be impossible to beat the level.

Not impossible, just hard as ****

 

[LaserPrecision]

Not impossible, just hard as ****

Mmmm, maybe? You'd have to win by pure luck as you'd have no idea where the chains are gonna come from. And once they've spawn, if you're in their way, you're just ******.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Mmmm, maybe? You'd have to win by pure luck as you'd have no idea where the chains are gonna come from. And once they've spawn, if you're in their way, you're just ******.

Yeah!

 

[Mickey1940]

Lol, it's alright, no hard feelings. Not like you were spewing insults or anything.

I agree with that, however, Helltaker doesn't DODGE the chains. He moves out of the way of where they're going to be summoned before they're summoned. Which is just prediction. Digimon can evade Immeasurable speed attacks, which is reaction speed, Helltaker just predicts where the chains are going to be. There's a big difference.

Because they just magically spawn into existence. He wouldn't be able to see where the chains are going to be fired. He'd have to instinctively guess where they would poof into existence.

Why would the trajectory indicators be anything but a game mechanic? And why would anything else be a game mechanic? To answer your question, the reason the trajectory indicators are just a game mechanic is because the trajectory indicators don't appear in the cutscenes. The chains just spawn into existence. So we know those trajectory indicators are only there for the player, not Helltaker. Because without the trajectory indicators, it would be impossible to beat the level.

I see
What about compering Helltaker to Spidey? He's kinda just a worse version of spider man, even factoring in the precog. Kingpin physically duked it out with and beat up Miles Morales, who has all of Hellltaker's abilities. Would that exp not help at all?

 

[LaserPrecision]

What about compering Helltaker to Spidey? He's kinda just a worse version of spider man, even factoring in the precog. Kingpin physically duked it out with and beat up Miles Morales, who has all of Hellltaker's abilities. Would that exp not help at all?

Tbh, I don't remember Morales having Spider-Sense in the movie. Well, maybe he did? But I don't recall it being quite as good as Spider-Man from the comics. I think it only alerted him of people being nearby. I honestly can't remember, cuz I know Morales has unique powers that 616 Spider-Man lacks, such as a venomous touch and invisibility.