The Gem Homeworld vs The Alternian Empire

[The_Wright_Way]

Scenario: The Alternian Empire and The Gem Homeworld's home galaxies are right next to each other. The two discover each other via scouting ships and decide to invade. None of the High 6-A gems are around because I guess they all went fishing with Steven or something. Neither The Condesce nor Doc Scratch care enough to send anything stronger than 6-C. Also, I guess all the Injectors are malfunctioning because all the Peridot were to busy watching Camp Pinning Hearts to fix them. Basically, nothing above 6-C is being used here. Everything below that mark is fine however.

Speed Equalized.

Everything 6-C and below is allowed (sans The Felt to prevent Time Manipulation stomp)


vs.

 

[The_Wright_Way]

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[The_Wright_Way]

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[The_Wright_Way]

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[The_Wright_Way]

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[WeeklyBattles]

Unless im missing something Gems take this with little difficulty just from their physiology resisting 95% of what the Alternians can do

 

[The_Wright_Way]

Troll mind manipulation can affect robots so I'm not sure what help Gem Physiology is gonna be against that. Not to mention, resisting hax isn't gonna help much when Homeworld itself doesn't have much hax that effects organics anyways. (Prettys sure that any purple bloods and up can nope the Harmony Core with their level of resistance and I doubt that emps will work on organic technology powered by psionics, so it's not like hax resistance doesn't go both ways)

 

[Gf7tvtvfvtfyvfvfvfvfvfv]

i'll go with Alternian Empire via mindhax do purple blooded trolls immortality count here too? or is that restricted?

 

[The_Wright_Way]

Well, they're physically tier 9. There's no need to restrict it if the common Ruby can reduce them to paste.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Purple Bloods can nope planetary mind hax?

 

[The_Wright_Way]

They're able to (mostly) endure GlyGlob's Cry, resistance to which is stated to directly correlate to resistance to mind hax, although prolonged exposure will kill them. Keep in mind, this is a move which effects every troll on Alternia and will eventually kill all trolls in the galaxy if uninterrupted.

There's also the fact that purples themselves have planetary mindhax (Marvus used his to become a planet wide celebrity) and yet it's implied that purples can't effect other purples with mindhax.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Okay what you just described is the Harmony Core

Also what can they do against a Tome? Or a Tractor Beam?

 

[The_Wright_Way]

So does that mean they resist or no?

Tomes I'm unsure about because I haven't played that game. How do they work?

Tractor Beams can get TK'd. If a gem pulls out one of those wands then a Yellow could just yoink it from her.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

If they'd be affected by something of equal potency then no a Harmony Core would eventually affect them

Basically theyre able to seal events in large areas (Entire towns, forests, desert ruins, etc.) inside them and those who are caught inside just experience the same events that were sealed over and over again forever

 

[The_Wright_Way]

Fair enough. I was more curious if they'd be instantly overtaken. Basically, all the 9-A trolls could potentially figure out what's happening and destroy the Core if their ship gets hit by it in the few hours they have, provided they're able to find it and land a shot with their tier 6 stuff.

Hmm, Weird Time Shit (as it's called in Homestuck) is common enough to the point of trolls probably being able to figure out what happened (assuming they're capable of feeling 'wait, haven't we done this before') I don't see them directly countering. How does it activate? How was it countered in-universe?

 

[WeeklyBattles]

I mean the Harmony Core has 6-C durability so

It wasnt countered, Steven had to talk no jutsu into convincing the Tome to release him and it only did so because it could read his memories and tell that he was a pascifist and truly didnt want to try to destroy it

 

[The_Wright_Way]

Which is why I specified them using 6-C weapons.

So we know for a fact Karkat could talk his way out of one then. It'd still work fine on most other trolls though, with the exception of a few Jade bloods.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

How high in AP are their 6-C weapons?

I mean the only reason it was able to confirm it was by reading and playing back Steven's memories combined with his SI, it wouldnt be able to do that to Karkat due to his mind resistance

 

[The_Wright_Way]

They scale to casual 19 Gigaton feats.

Mind Manipulation resistance? Who added that? Karkat's explicitly shown to be vulnerable to mind manipulation. Vriska mindhaxes him casually just to keep him from leaving the conversation. Gimme a second...

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Hmm okay, so they should have comparable firepower and defenses seeing as current Homeworld scales immensely above 16 gigaton tech that is outdated by an order of 6000 years and wasnt able to scratch, phase, or even slow modern Homeworld tech.

Ah lol then yeah he would likely be able to get out, though it would take him some time as Tomes are able to overlay events and make them so realistic that those trapped inside are unlikely to even realize theyre trapped, not even Garnet's precog let her see through a Tome's memory projections.

 

[The_Wright_Way]

Yeah, the reason I made this is that it's actually really fair. AP is close, both have hax counters (Fables against mindhax that can effect gems), both are completely unlike anything the other has encountered (Gem Physiology and Alternia's bizarre four romance quadrant system causing cultural confusion on both sides. Alternia highly values blood so beings that don't have blood would confuse and disturb them and Trolls seeing things like attempted murder and war crimes as flirty would doubtlessly confuse the incredibly rigid Gems). This is incredibly close at a glance.

Karkat would almost certainly be the wild card in this scenario, thanks to both his conflicted allegiance to Alternia and his own Steven-tier level of Social Influencing. If anyone is going to change the course of this war one way or the other, it'll be him.

 

[The_Wright_Way]

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[The_Wright_Way]

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[QuasiYuri]

Actually, if the Summoner or the Signless were leaders they would be way better than Karkat (if we count them).

 

[The_Wright_Way]

Only we don't really know anything about either of those two, so we can't really say for sure. All we have is Mindfang's journal to go off of when it comes to ancestors.

I'll explain later once I get home. Don't have a whole lot of time right now.

 

[The_Wright_Way]

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[The_Wright_Way]

Okay, so let me expand on why I see Karkat as such a wild card. It's not his leadership, I'll just say that outright. Even when he was supposedly "the leader", most of the tactical, long game decisions were done by Vriska, Terezi, and Aradia than Karkat. It's his Social Influencing. And it could very likely match, if not surpass, Steven's. Here are his feats:

Got a group of 11 trolls who hated each other to work together well enough to defeat The Black Kingdom of Derse, a feat that has a very low success rate across the multiverse. (The Black Kingdom of Derse always, 100% of the time, manages to conquer its home universe and very few attempts to beat them succeed. I know I said that his leadership isn't a factor and I fully concede that it was mostly the tactical efforts of Vriska and the others I mentioned above that they managed to succeed at all. The main point is the wouldn't have even been able to tolerate each other well enough to make any of those plans uf it wasn't for Karkat. These people hated each other on a very deep level, with few exceptions. I'm talking about "this person is personally responsible for some of the most traumatic events in my life. The horrible things they have done have physically and emotionally scarred me and shaped me as a person on a fundamental level. I'd love nothing more than to kill them horribly." Levels of hate. Karkat managed to unite them against a common enemy, kerp them from killing each other, and managed to get them to tolerate each other for years despite this. That feat alone is arguably just as good as anything Steven has done.

Karkat's friendship with Eridan. Eridan, at the start, is a genocidal maniac who kills kids parents for a living. He hates landwelling trolls and has virtually no reason to put up with them once Feferi dumps him and stops acting as his morality leesh. Karkat is a landweller who keeps his blood color secret (showing blatant disrespect for the social structure the Eridan believes in in the process). Yet, the two get along well enough for Eridan to come to him for romantic advice and ultimately spares him once he decides to betray the team.

Managed to calm Gamzee down in the middle of a religious crisis induced rampage.

Is prophesied to be the one who will guide trollkind to a new era after its near extinction.

Befriended Spades Slick, Derses' spymaster, in their first encounter and convinced him to turn his back on the Kingdom.

And finally, his Aspect is Blood. Meaning, that if he'd gine God-Tier, he'd be a God of Blood. To put that into focus, if he'd chosen to become a God, he would've been a God of Teamwork, Friendship, and Social Connections.

Why do I bring this up? Because Homeworld historically has a problem against Social Influencing. Lapis Lazuli, Peridot, Bismuth, The Cluster, Rose's entire rebellion. Homeworld's dehumanizing nature would provide the perfect window for Karkat to talk them over to his side. Not only would his more savy friends notice and likely advise him on this exact thing, Karkat himself would have good reason to in-character. Karkat, under his loud abd crass exterior, is a reasonable and empathetic person. He'd most certainly sympathize with the harsh conditions most gems live under, especially in regards to fusion. Karkat is a huge romance fanatic, and once he understood fusion, he'd be disgusted with how Homeworld regards it. Basically, once Karkat steps up to the plate, Homeworld could likely find itself dealing with another rebellion on top of the war they're already fighting. Plus, Karkat's physically 6-C, so only the strongest gems would be able to shut him up once he started talking.

The flipside is, this would only come into play once Homeworld reached Alternia proper, so it'll already be a good ways into the war. Karkat's a kid, he's not gonna be in space where all the fighting is happening.

 

[The_Wright_Way]

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[The_Wright_Way]

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[The_Wright_Way]

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[The_Wright_Way]

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