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Psychomaster35

He/Him
VS Battles
Calculation Group
13,711
3,929
No, this doesn't include anything from the reboots despite the title

If I'm being honest here, I do not like how the stats for the series is handled. The way the stats are currently handled in terms of physicals is how (Base) Timmy has a variable rating from 10-C to 8-B, and yet nobody scales to his high end rating for some reason despite the fact that there have been instances of characters being able to physically harm Timmy on multiple occasions throughout the 10 seasons the show has been around for (IE. Francis, Vicky, etc). Apparently, this reason is because of "Toon force"... except the reason Timmy has a high end rating in the first place is because he is literally scaled from his Cleft form which is merely him wearing a costume that isn't implied to be making him stronger, with said form allowing him to keep up with villains who can keep up with the Crimson Chin.

The thing is, a varies rating should only be allowed if there's a given canon explanation as to why they should vary in power (IE. a fluctuating power source). It should not be given if a character is inconsistent in power, as explained on the Attack Potency page. In this case, just because Timmy can be inconsistent doesn't mean he should vary in power, because these moments of inconsistency for all we know could be PiS moments. That being said, Timmy himself has consistently done many superhuman things that I'm pretty sure no 10-C character can do, especially with this calc compilation I made that compiles many superhuman feats that prove he should be way above where his current low-end rating is.

I know what you're thinking: "Timmy's an average 10 year old kid who is weak compared to others!" Sure, he's weaker than them, but that only indicates these stronger characters upscale from him. And also, Timmy being less competent than other people his age in terms of doing tasks (As explained on his profile for the AP justification for his 10-C rating) has literally nothing to do with his strength, but rather intelligence in knowing how to do the tasks. That being said, there should be no reason as to why characters superior to Timmy shouldn't be able to upscale from his best (Base) feats (Especially since you have characters like Vicky, Francis, Mr. Crocker, and Timmy's Parents who are not only shown to be physically superior to Timmy, but they have also performed their own superhuman feats to prove they are superhuman as well in a sense), and as such, Timmy should have no reason to be keeping his 10-C rating any longer.

And then there's speed. So what if Timmy is treated as the slowest of his class in running a race? This is basically the same case as the problem with his AP rating, being that it just proves that they upscale from him through being, well, superior to him. Mind you, Chester and AJ (Who are Timmy's classmates) have been shown reacting to light before, so it's basically the same sense that these characters outspeeding Timmy are superhuman just like him. As such, Timmy's average speed rating should be removed and he should just be solidly Massively FTL. Also, the same should apply to Cosmo and Wanda since it's the same case as Timmy of simply being outsped by other humans who have superhuman stats.

That being said, now that I've debunked why the low ends of Timmy's tier feel pointless, it's time I address how the feat he scales to in his 8-B rating is wrong. Timmy scales to his parents as Mighty Mom and Dyno Dad who were able to push a meteor back which has been calculated to be 41.5 tons of TNT. The issue, however, is that the formula was done wrong via square rooting the mass instead of multiplying it by 0.5, causing the result to become much lower than usual. That being said, I recalculated said feat to be 7-C, which is consistent with feats like Timmy withstanding a missile from Shirley who is this strong, Timmy at full brain capacity (withstanding himself) kicking a soccer ball around the world, Timmy and his parents surviving getting launched from the North Pole to a tropical island, Remy and Juandissimo withstanding an explosion that vaporized Remy's mansion, and Mr. Bickles withstanding an explosion that vaporized his house, all of which are in the tier 7 range.

But they can also get much higher than that, as proven by how Crocker withstands Timmy crashing into him hard enough to splash all of its water into space, as well as the entire world population being able to survive being crushed by the Timmadome collapsing on them as seen with them appearing in the next episode (Chicken Poofs), which both yield tier 6 results. But perhaps I should introduce the highest possible feat the cast should scale to: that being the Pumpkinator being able to withstand its own self-destruction powerful enough to blow up a pumpkin planet, a feat that yield's High 5-A results. While it's true that this feat happens in an in-universe TV show, in the episode the feat happens (Scary Godparents), Timmy makes a wish that would turn everyone's costumes "real and scary" (9:15), which literally caused all of the costumes everyone was wearing to have them gain the powers and abilities of something based on their costume (10:32). That being said, later in the episode, Timmy wears a Crimson Chin mask to gain the powers of the Crimson Chin's chin which he uses to harm a replica of the Pumpkinator that became real from the wish he made (18:27), therefore the Crimson Chin would be able to scale to said Pumpkinator feat, who in turn Timmy himself would scale to since he can fight off the villains who can keep up with the Crimson Chin.

Now, the biggest concern that may be brought up is if this is an outlier or not. And I am fortunate to say that it is not an outlier, as there are 2 feats also in the tier 5 range that prove this rating is consistent:
And finally, lifting strength. There were never any calculations for their lifting strength until now when I made a calculation of Timmy throwing his parents which got to Class 50, a calculation of Timmy throwing a dinosaur egg which got to Class K, a calculation of Cosmo (in his goldfish form) lifting an atomic bomb in one hand which got to Class K, and a calculation of Jorgen lifting a dragon with just a single pinky finger which got to Class M. In addition, Mighty Mom & Dyno Dad should scale to Class M through being able to push back a meteor of this size, and this should scale to the Crimson Chin and his enemies since Timmy based Mighty Mom and Dyno Dad's powers off of the Crimson Chin. Thus, I propose that the humans and regular fairies comparable to Timmy and Cosmo scale to Class K, Mighty Mom & Dyno Dad and those comparable to them scale to Class M, and Jorgen scales to Class M.

Finally, as much as I still believe in 3-A fairy magic, I'd like to remove 2 justifications that justify their 3-A tier.
  1. Firstly is the evidence of series creator Butch Hartman stating that Cosmo & Wanda can create a universe. Although this looks convincing when taken out of context, in context he stated this while retelling a popular fan theory that Timmy Turner and Danny Phantom are the same person, not even confirming at the end if this is true, just giving his thoughts on it. Just because that statement was taken from the creator's mouth should not mean that his words are the absolute truth, especially since he was only retelling a theory and not confirming if they are actually capable of doing something like this.
  2. Secondly is the evidence of Calamitous fused with Jorgen's body creating the Big Bang Bomb with the intent on destroying the universe. The thing is, based on what Calamitous says, he never mentions anything about destroying the universe when explaining his Big Bang Bomb, only stating that it has the ability to "tear the very fabric of time" and "revert Earth to its original state". The former statement especially never mentions it will do so on a universal scale, but rather evidenced by the latter statement that it is at least on a planetary scale, albeit no evidence of it being any further than that. And although Cindy mentioned at one point that it was going to destroy the universe, Calamitous never says this at all, so she wouldn't be much of a reliable source to go by especially when she said this in a state of panic.
With all of this being said, here ere are reworked profiles of Timmy and the Crimson Chin which includes the now accepted feats and better formatting.
tl;dr
  • Timmy (And others who have it) should lose his Varies rating and gets upgraded to High 5-A while everyone else gets upgraded to High 5-A and Massively FTL speed
  • Humans and regular fairies scaling to Timmy and Cosmo become Class K, Mighty Mom & Dyno Dad as well as Crimson Chin characters become Class M, and Jorgen becomes Class M
  • 2 3-A justifications should be removed for being faulty pieces of evidence
EDIT: The High 5-A physicals (And to an extension, anywhere High 6-A and beyond) have been agreed by most here to be outliers, so now the new tier upgrade as brought up is "Low 7-B, likely 6-C".
 
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First of all: Good work, this is a great amount of effort

Although i don´think the "Just means that everyone upscales to him" is a very good logic (Not necessary on this revision, but in general), the fact that Timmy and co. already showed many times to survive giant explosions, it should be fine

Tier 7 looks pretty good, Neutral, learning towards agree with Tier 6.

Ngl i´m iffy on the High 5-A rating, 3 Tier 5 feats on a series with 10 seasons and more than 250 episodes are not what i would exactly call consistent, although i am not the best person to ask about it, so, after all, i´m neutral on this

Some of the links on Timmy´s profile aren´t working, such as the link for the abilities he gain while inside a comic book

Do we really need a new key for his Dark Powers Suit? Iirc, it didn´t really amped his physicals

I don´t really see why of the Multi-Solar System level rating, since it links to the "Pocket Dimension with a starry sky" feat

Otherwise the profiles looks fine

Btw: Shouldn´t the attack speed with magic be the same as the natural fairies speed following the upscaling logic?

The speed rating looks ok

The LS feats looks fine
 
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Although i don´think the "Just means that everyone upscales to him" is a very good logic (Not necessary on this revision, but in general), the fact that Timmy and co. already showed many times to survive giant explosions, it should be fine
I personally do buy it so long as it's consistent and they're supernatural in a sense (Which they are)
Some of the links on Timmy´s profile aren´t working, such as the link for the abilities he gain while inside a comic book

Do we really need a new key for his Dark Powers Suit? Iirc, it didn´t really amped his physicals

I don´t really see why of the Multi-Solar System level rating, since it links to the "Pocket Dimension with a starry sky" feat
That's because they were uploaded on Streamable which has the tendency to auto-delete footage after a few months, I'll have to replace them (And add references when necessary).

It does grant him new abilities, so I'm fine with him keeping that key.

This is the 4-A feat I'm talking about
 
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I personally do buy it so long as it's consistent and they're supernatural in a sense (Which they are)
Same as me

"Large Town level+, possibly/likely Island level+" or "Large Town level+ possibly/likely Dwarf Star level" (If the later ins't dismissed as an Outlier) looks good to me

Also:
Shouldn´t the attack speed with magic be the same as the natural fairies speed following the upscaling logic?

That's because they were uploaded on Streamable which has the tendency to auto-delete footage after a few months, I'll have to replace them (And add references when necessary).
Ok then

It does grant him new abilities, so I'm fine with him keeping that key.
I personally think It is just occupying desnecessary space on his profile, but whatever

Looks fine
 
Shouldn´t the attack speed with magic be the same as the natural fairies speed following the upscaling logic?
Sure, I suppose. Even though the use of magic varies on whether it's fired in a blast or done instantly, I don't see its speed always changing to be slower or faster if I'm being honest myself, given that nothing in the series states the speed of magic varies and it's moreso an artstyle thing.
 
"Large Town level+, possibly/likely Island level+" or "Large Town level+ possibly/likely Dwarf Star level" (If the later ins't dismissed as an Outlier) looks good to me
I'd say the lower bound would start with one of the 2 tier 6 feats (Calculated at 6-C and High 6-A respectively), but I want to hear other opinions on tier 5 physicals first before I start considering it a likely/possibly rating or an outlier.
 
If we are removing the varies I think Timmy should be 10-C rather than tier 5, because he is far more consistently that tier than anything else. Power-Ups/Wish stuff can be its own tier, but his base physicals should be 10-C
 
I should say the best tier 7 feat calculated is actually at Small City, not Large Town.
So I'll just go with High 7-C to 6-C instead.
You mean as in a likely/possibly for the 6-C, or straight up 6-C assuming most people agree with it especially with the fact it's only a few tiers ahead of the Low 7-B feat?
 
But perhaps I should introduce the highest possible feat the cast should scale to: that being the Pumpkinator being able to withstand its own self-destruction powerful enough to blow up a pumpkin planet, a feat that yield's High 5-A results. While it's true that this feat happens in an in-universe TV show, in the episode the feat happens (Scary Godparents), Timmy makes a wish that would turn everyone's costumes "real and scary" (9:15), which literally caused all of the costumes everyone was wearing to have them gain the powers and abilities of something based on their costume (10:32). That being said, later in the episode, Timmy wears a Crimson Chin mask to gain the powers of the Crimson Chin's chin which he uses to harm a replica of the Pumpkinator that became real from the wish he made (18:27), therefore the Crimson Chin would be able to scale to said Pumpkinator feat, who in turn Timmy himself would scale to since he can fight off the villains who can keep up with the Crimson Chin.
I don't see how Crimson Chin scales to the TV Show Pumpkinator. All he really does is hit the Pumpkinator, he never significantly damages it. The planet explosion resulted in Pumpkinator breaking down into the four individual Jack-o-Bots which Crimson Chin never accomplishes. The only reason they beat Pumpkinator was by fairy magic transforming it back into normal kids in costumes.
 
I don't see how Crimson Chin scales to the TV Show Pumpkinator. All he really does is hit the Pumpkinator, he never significantly damages it. The planet explosion resulted in Pumpkinator breaking down into the four individual Jack-o-Bots which Crimson Chin never accomplishes. The only reason they beat Pumpkinator was by fairy magic transforming it back into normal kids in costumes.
Would you at least agree with this proposed rating?
Yes, either a "Low 7-B, likely/possibly 6-C"
 
This is the feat

Alternatively, you can see near the end of the full episode here
Hmmm, not too quite sure about this, but it does seem quite literal considering Timmy's and everyone else's reactions if I do say so myself. But then again, I still don't really think this is really consistent enough. Been a while since I last watched this show, does Timmy have any solid scaling to Jorgen?
 
I'm neutral on the final outcome of the tiers, but agree with nuking the "variable tier via toon force" stuff. It's also maybe important to consider that some feats are due to amplifications from Fairy magic; f.e. Mighty Mom and Dyno Dad.
 
It's also maybe important to consider that some feats are due to amplifications from Fairy magic; f.e. Mighty Mom and Dyno Dad.
Mighty Mom and Dyno Dad have been able to fight off the Crimson Chin's enemies, the same enemies Timmy as Cleft has been able to fight, with it being agreed that Timmy's Cleft form is merely a costume that's never been implied to be increasing his stats.
 
I'm neutral on the final outcome of the tiers, but agree with nuking the "variable tier via toon force" stuff. It's also maybe important to consider that some feats are due to amplifications from Fairy magic; f.e. Mighty Mom and Dyno Dad.
Any thoughts on this proposal as well?
Yes, either a "Low 7-B, likely/possibly 6-C"
 
Yes, I do agree that they're equal to Crimson Chin given all their powers are based on all of Crimson Chin's powers. And I didn't mean to imply costume increased strength; though it is equipped with inflation features iirc to help withstand great falls. But at the same time; while it's been ages since I followed the series, I do recall that it's pretty common that Cleft often struggles with most of the baddies and often had Crimson Chin rescue him. Then again, Cat Man has feats of being pretty comparable to Crimson Chin who really shouldn't be that much stronger than some of the regular humans.

Yes, either a "Low 7-B, likely/possibly 6-C"
This sounds reasonable to me.
 
That's 3 staff agreements, so I should be set to add these changes by tomorrow once the grace is up.
 
I feel like @Eficiente should get to comment on this thread no?
I'm sure whatever he has to say has already been debunked based on what he's said on other threads. Not to mention, these feats calculated were merely unexplored ones that nobody bothered to calculate until now.

Anyways, grace's up, so I'll be applying these. In the meantime, I need Jorgen's profile unlocked.
 
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