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The Entities + The Player
- Thread starter Jinsye
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I think I going back to earlier comments to asked one by one. It confuses me when it's debating while all paragraphs in one comment and each paragraphs/question has criticism/being answered/asking. (You may ignore my previous comments because they were made in rush.)
Actually the player is behind the screen. You can't play without the screen. It is still you who play the game as the game refer "you". The way your wording "You do not actually sell your SOUL to Chara if you complete a genocide run." is exact opposite of what your gameplay does because Chara asked you to give your SOUL after you complete a genocide run. Deltarune at the beginning of the game is implies "you" the player played the part of the game and not only you creating a vessel but it also asked your name as creator of a vessel. It seems the Deltarune is dropping a nuke and not only Matpat was screaming but pulverized fandom. (Tobyfoxverse confirmed!)Azathoth the Abyssal Idiot said:
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I agree to the idea of Enitities are driving force behind universe. It makes sense. But that's all extent of my opinion... yeah that's all.
What tier 2? Player is already Tier 2...
Is it upgrade or downgrade?
I don't think it's necessary to downgrade just because of narration of the fourth wall in the End Poem. That's the point of the Player profiles. Though also it doesn't change the fact Player treated the game, Minecraft in its entirety, as a fiction.
I think the reason of being not 2-A tier is because of the End Poem it lacks "infinite worlds" but countless worlds instead. So I don't think it's necessary to upgrade/downgrade the Player/the Entities. It should be stay that way.
I still have an idea about the Player being a character but it's kind of really really really hard to explain, it'd take me several days(nope, it's more than several days) plus checking my grammar to be "sure" grammar and checking my own final conclusion before I post. (I think I readed seriously the End Poem and people's conclusion from old threads by a lot of times for freaking months, that's a lot of waste of time, really no kidding also I really consider people's conclusion.)
But for now my conclusion is we use the non-transcended Player it was before they was transcended into high level enough to read the thoughts of the Entities. "No. It has not yet achieved the highest level. That, it must achieve in the long dream of life, not the short dream of a game." It was directed to high level Player. "Once upon a time, there was a player. The player was you, PLAYERNAME. (and so on...)" See, the Entities told the story of the Player before they become high level, the Player was already outside of Minecraft's reality but only within its private world. I think that's the reason they're universe and the program.
So I think the real reason people were against the idea of an upgrade was because of the Player transcended into higher level is at the point the Entities treated you as you literally, fourth wall, and this is I think @Azzy's posts makes sense. The high level Player, aka transcended Player, they can read the thoughts of the Entities and directly interact with them.
Here's the deal. We should excluded the story the idea of the Player being transcended. Player waking up said dream of the game. However we should accept the narration of non-transcended Player, it sees the game as a dream + being a universe "it was in a universe that was made of energy that was made of offs and ons; zeros and ones; lines of code. Sometimes it believed it was playing a game. Sometimes it believed it was reading words on a screen. ..." "...Decoded them into words; decoded words into meaning; decoded meaning into feelings, emotions, theories, ideas," "...you are not separate from every other thing" "...you are the universe tasting itself, talking to itself, reading its own code" "And the game was over and the player woke up from the dream. And the player began a new dream. And the player dreamed again, dreamed better. And the player was the universe. And the player was love." and they're outside of Minecraft's reality... yeah it makes sense. What do you think?
But wait before that, there's something I noticed it's really the "game was over"? No, and if we don't count the logic of the Player is transcending by "waking up" or enlightenment then as non-transcending Player they just continue to dream after completing the End of game(beating the Enderdragon) then "the player woke from one dream into another, then woke from that into a third." afterwards "And the player dreamed again, dreamed better. And the player was the universe. And the player was love." they dreamed, created, destroyed, hunted, shelter and such and of course they're within the game. Basically the non-transcended Player can wake up but still in the dream of the game is to why's "the player woke from one dream into another, then woke from that into a third." Dreamed can be interpreted as each dream is reality, they were created, destroyed, hunted, shelter, soft and warm and simple and then hard, and cold, and complicated.
Edit: I think this is the last edit.
What tier 2? Player is already Tier 2...
Is it upgrade or downgrade?
I don't think it's necessary to downgrade just because of narration of the fourth wall in the End Poem. That's the point of the Player profiles. Though also it doesn't change the fact Player treated the game, Minecraft in its entirety, as a fiction.
I think the reason of being not 2-A tier is because of the End Poem it lacks "infinite worlds" but countless worlds instead. So I don't think it's necessary to upgrade/downgrade the Player/the Entities. It should be stay that way.
I still have an idea about the Player being a character but it's kind of really really really hard to explain, it'd take me several days(nope, it's more than several days) plus checking my grammar to be "sure" grammar and checking my own final conclusion before I post. (I think I readed seriously the End Poem and people's conclusion from old threads by a lot of times for freaking months, that's a lot of waste of time, really no kidding also I really consider people's conclusion.)
But for now my conclusion is we use the non-transcended Player it was before they was transcended into high level enough to read the thoughts of the Entities. "No. It has not yet achieved the highest level. That, it must achieve in the long dream of life, not the short dream of a game." It was directed to high level Player. "Once upon a time, there was a player. The player was you, PLAYERNAME. (and so on...)" See, the Entities told the story of the Player before they become high level, the Player was already outside of Minecraft's reality but only within its private world. I think that's the reason they're universe and the program.
So I think the real reason people were against the idea of an upgrade was because of the Player transcended into higher level is at the point the Entities treated you as you literally, fourth wall, and this is I think @Azzy's posts makes sense. The high level Player, aka transcended Player, they can read the thoughts of the Entities and directly interact with them.
Here's the deal. We should excluded the story the idea of the Player being transcended. Player waking up said dream of the game. However we should accept the narration of non-transcended Player, it sees the game as a dream + being a universe "it was in a universe that was made of energy that was made of offs and ons; zeros and ones; lines of code. Sometimes it believed it was playing a game. Sometimes it believed it was reading words on a screen. ..." "...Decoded them into words; decoded words into meaning; decoded meaning into feelings, emotions, theories, ideas," "...you are not separate from every other thing" "...you are the universe tasting itself, talking to itself, reading its own code" "And the game was over and the player woke up from the dream. And the player began a new dream. And the player dreamed again, dreamed better. And the player was the universe. And the player was love." and they're outside of Minecraft's reality... yeah it makes sense. What do you think?
But wait before that, there's something I noticed it's really the "game was over"? No, and if we don't count the logic of the Player is transcending by "waking up" or enlightenment then as non-transcending Player they just continue to dream after completing the End of game(beating the Enderdragon) then "the player woke from one dream into another, then woke from that into a third." afterwards "And the player dreamed again, dreamed better. And the player was the universe. And the player was love." they dreamed, created, destroyed, hunted, shelter and such and of course they're within the game. Basically the non-transcended Player can wake up but still in the dream of the game is to why's "the player woke from one dream into another, then woke from that into a third." Dreamed can be interpreted as each dream is reality, they were created, destroyed, hunted, shelter, soft and warm and simple and then hard, and cold, and complicated.
Edit: I think this is the last edit.
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This is kinda what I'm suggesting. The Entities are an actual thing that could be quite possibly anywhere within Tier 2.DMUA said:
The player isn't really a character, though.
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Matthew Schroeder said:
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"I don't think it's necessary to downgrade just because of narration of the fourth wall in the End Poem."
I should clarify. Nobody is saying there should be a downgrade because fourth wall stuff is never legitimate.
But there is a major difference between the person behind the fourth wall being treated as a real life person, and the person behind the fourth wall being treated as a higher being who is inherently part of this fictional world in some way.
I should clarify. Nobody is saying there should be a downgrade because fourth wall stuff is never legitimate.
But there is a major difference between the person behind the fourth wall being treated as a real life person, and the person behind the fourth wall being treated as a higher being who is inherently part of this fictional world in some way.
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Some of the story modes in Skullgirls end with the camera zooming out to show that the whole thing was a videogame being played by the Trinity.
Which apparently is enough to rank them as High Multiverse level+ because Skullgirls has a universe I guess.
Which apparently is enough to rank them as High Multiverse level+ because Skullgirls has a universe I guess.
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Make the thread. I agree with matt but let's not derail.
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So is somebody willing to update The Player (Minecraft) page?
Also, should The Entities (Minecraft) be updated as well or be left alone?
Also, should The Entities (Minecraft) be updated as well or be left alone?
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Even that makes sense but still.Azathoth the Abyssal Idiot said:
Then what now will happen to the Player's profile and Entities profile?
I'm confuse now, that they're is saying Tier 2 will be remove whilst you're saying no one said is downgrading... isn't that "downgrade" or be remove "just because of narration of the fourth wall in the End Poem" is the same thing as downgrade to the Profile?
Then what's the point of End Poem if you weren't part of the game? They plainly stated when you're reading words on screen it's obviously you were playing the game as part of the game, they just treated you as the program and universe because of everything happen to the game is revolves around you and you control the game and you're using that program to become character and without you the Minecraft world wouldn't be created at the first place. That's another the reason why they explicitly stated you're Player of games. If you aren't a character they won't even interact you in the first after all.
Minecon 2018 Developers explicitly stated you're character... it's sandbox game with no narration. Then here one will argue is denying the narration of the Entities which is the only lore of the sandbox game. How about this the Entities isn't even part of the game and not a character they never appear or interact to the gameplay but only a fourth wall + gamemechanics + "Entities" isn't even a name or they don't have a name just like the Player but whatever they are, they're just simply defeating Ender Dragon ending credits and nothing more to it, with this Both Entities and the Player will be taken out as well.
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"Then what now will happen to the Player's profile and Entities profile?"
The Player has three keys that have nothing to do with the End Poem. It only really loses a single key, and any matches associated with said key.
The Entities, as I've said before, are legit "beings", albeit ones not part of the Minecraft world by their own admission. They're kinda hard to pin down, but at absolute worst, apparently are the universe itself. They need slight tiering changes, but are still Tier 2, and could either be below or above where they currently are. It just needs to be decided upon.
If other people have a problem with them, they can make their case for it, but mine has solely been against the Player's Tier 2 key.
The Player has three keys that have nothing to do with the End Poem. It only really loses a single key, and any matches associated with said key.
The Entities, as I've said before, are legit "beings", albeit ones not part of the Minecraft world by their own admission. They're kinda hard to pin down, but at absolute worst, apparently are the universe itself. They need slight tiering changes, but are still Tier 2, and could either be below or above where they currently are. It just needs to be decided upon.
If other people have a problem with them, they can make their case for it, but mine has solely been against the Player's Tier 2 key.
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The Player's? Yes. Something needs to be decided on for the entities, though.
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With them nit being above million players, me thinks they become 2-C by virtue of being the three realities in minecraft.
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Yeah. Then that's the point right also Alex/Steve is just an avatar. But yeah it's the entire Minecraft universe/game itself would be affected.Azathoth the Abyssal Idiot said:
Entities being "universe" but you aren't the them, it means, the Entities is also the program and yeah the Player thinks them are part of the game, in reality, they're really part of the game inside the program. Entities treated you as universe then they said they're also universe then they also treated you as the program and universe of the game then by this logic the Entities is you? (But hey it's game theory it's GAMETHEORY thank you for reading... it's not the end~) At the same time you are not part of them as they said so. But seriously it's confusing... they're universe, inside the program, you're the program, then being not part of them and you're the universe and they're universe then again Entities is the program itself? If they aren't Entities-is-you theory then they're the driving force of the game itself?
My final thoughts:
Me: The Entities are you a program?
Entities: I'm not even real human but yeah...
Mind blown.
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I think the idea falls back to the universe not being a series of individual things, but a wholly connected system. The Entities make a point out of saying things like:
"Your body touching the universe again at every point, as though you were separate things. As though we were separate things."
"We are everything you think isn't you."
All the language they use indicates that the idea that an individual person/player and the universe are separate things is wrong, because the universe is one with everything, just as everything is one with the universe, but an "individual" can only realize such after the "long dream" of life.
"Your body touching the universe again at every point, as though you were separate things. As though we were separate things."
"We are everything you think isn't you."
All the language they use indicates that the idea that an individual person/player and the universe are separate things is wrong, because the universe is one with everything, just as everything is one with the universe, but an "individual" can only realize such after the "long dream" of life.
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sorry I edited my comment again...Azathoth the Abyssal Idiot said:
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@Ant
I can do the Player's right now.
We just need to finalize the Entities' tier.
I can do the Player's right now.
We just need to finalize the Entities' tier.
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The Entities are capable of doing what individual does since they're driving force of the universe so Entities inherited what the Player does.Azathoth the Abyssal Idiot said:
Well the Information Manipulation and Data Manipulation are from others ideas above.
| Hidden - Oof! |
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Powers and Stats Tier: At least 2-B, Possibly 2-A Name: Unknown Origin: Minecraft Gender: Unknown Age: Millions to Billions of years old Classification: Unknown Powers and Abilities: Superhuman Physical Characteristics, Teleportation, Creation, Resurrection, Omnipresent, Non-Corporeal, Breaking the Fourth Wall, Reality Warping (Easily created the entire world of Minecraft), Space-Time Manipulation (The three main worlds of Minecraft each possesses their own space-time), Law Manipulation (The different dimensions of Minecraft each have different laws of physics to some degree. Can change the "difficulty of an entire world, which can modify the properties of beings and outright prevent some from existing), Void Manipulation (The difficulty can erase beings and prevent them from reappearing. Can also erase an entire world (which includes three universes) instantly), Information Manipulation (They casually discuss concepts. (Decoded them into words; decoded words into meaning; decoded meaning into feelings, emotions, theories, ideas)), Data Manipulation (They consider reality itself to be simple codes. (It was in a universe that was made of energy that was made of offs and ons; zeros and ones; lines of code.)) Attack Potency: At least Multiverse level (Described themselves as being the universe itself, being everything that the Player can touch, see or hear. They consider reality itself to be simple codes, said reality containing at least three universes, each one is infinite in size, including other worlds in Mobestiary. They consider themselves to be on a higher level than the Player, who sees the Minecraft world as only a dream inside another dream, which is also yet in another. They oversee and are superior to at least millions of Players. Although due to the End Poem's vagueness, their exact tiering is hard to pin down), Possibly Multiverse level+ (They are the universe itself, including the "real world" beyond the Minecraft universe and other games. Albeit due to the End Poem's vagueness, but still, this includes other games other than just Minecraft as they said.) Speed: Omnipresent (They are the universe itself) Lifting Strength: Unknow Striking Strength: Unknow Durability: Unknow Stamina: Likely limitless Range: At least Low Multiversal to Multiversal, Possibly Multiversal+ Standard Equipment: The Universe Intelligence: Likely Extremely High (They casually discuss concepts that can't be rendered into words) Weaknesses: None Notable Feats: -They are the universe itself, including the "real world" beyond the Minecraft universe. They are the driving force behind everything that happens in the universe. They possibly transcend the player, who themselves possibly transcends the Minecraft world several times over. -They are the force behind all realities are being created, destroyed, hunted, shelter, soft and warm and simple and then hard, and cold, and complicated as the Player does. |
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Player yes, Entities no.
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Fixed.
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@DMUA Ok...
@Kuroiha The Resistance effect in Minecraft isn't equivalence to Resistance to Void Manipulation.
@Kuroiha The Resistance effect in Minecraft isn't equivalence to Resistance to Void Manipulation.
- The Resistance effect is supposed to be resistance to all forms of damage in Minecraft. Since it doesn't reduced all forms damage then it's only a resistance to all forms of physical damage including magics except the void damage and /kill command because they're nonexistence, erasure and void manip stuffs. (Maybe in the future updates the more types of damage to exist to Minecraft the more resistance to types of damage it'll gain)
- Resistance effect beyond Lvl 5+ is literally a 100%+ damage Reduction. (Resistance 255 is reduces all incoming damage by 5100%)
- Players tried to go deeper into the void and take damage, you will now take damage faster than before. (I tried it by myself, I got bored, 0.5s is grace period is normal in Minecraft but it became faster if you go deeper into the void. Oh wait, though not only the void can change the grace period, but by other debuffs from poison, fatal poison and wither, and the higher the level of debuff the faster the debuff will damage you. Lol)
- Creative is resistance to the Void because it doesn't kill you instantly however along with Regenerationn Lv 5+ with unlimited duration it will grant you to stay in the void as long as you'd like.
- (64 bit) Beyond Y: -9,223,372,036,854,775,807 Blocks into the Void literally crash the game. So yeah merging deeper into the void will still kill you even you had Regenerationn.
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