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When narrators will break free from the constraint of logic, when they'll manage to create and prove the existence of omniscience and omnipotence.
You will also be overtaken.
But me.
The end of all illusions, the end of all narrative Illusions.
Do you think the narrators can one day create a more omniscient and omnipotent existence?
—------You will also be overtaken.
But me.
The end of all illusions, the end of all narrative Illusions.
Do you think the narrators can one day create a more omniscient and omnipotent existence?
Heya everyone. This is the first part of a very large thread that I planned. I figured it would be simpler to do so step by step, so here's the first cosmology revision I plan for the verse.
1. Ultimate Ensemble is just a name, really.
Let's recap why the Ultimate Ensemble World of Instant Death is Low 1-A, shall we?
1- It's called Ultimate Ensemble even in the raw
2- There are nested universes
3- Universes have different laws.
That's it. Because of those three meager elements, which can be seen here, the Ultimate Ensemble World is considered Low 1-A. In an old thread, like this one, people compared the Ultimate Ensemble World of ID with the Downstreamers.
The comparison shouldn't even be made. Instant Death never explained how the Ultimate Ensemble worked except in one paragraph. Worse, the most important aspect of a type 4 multiverse, the fact that mathematics is an underlying part of reality, is never mentioned.
I'm not specifically against the verse using a Type 4 Multiverse, but those are too few pieces of evidence to point at it. At this point, any fiction using nested universes and different laws is a type 4 multiverse too. Furthermore, some antifeat do exist within the verse itself.
In the original upgrade thread, it was supposed to be debated. Sadly, nothing of that sort occurred. Well, here I am.
If there's no additional evidence or reasoning that isn't known, the verse should be downgraded. A name can only let you go so far.
Therefore, the verse would have to get rid of potential "scaling" to a Multiverse type 4 since there wasn't such a thing to begin with.
Where would it scale? Well, probably at only 1-B. Why?
Because there are only two instances that might hint at something greater. The first one is regarding Kouryu explaining how "If time and space are infinite and how universes are contained within larger universes and so on", and the second one would be the fact that the fight between UEG and Toichiro would have "no end" if allowed to continue.
I'll tackle the second one first since it's the easiest. Continuing "endlessly" =/= reaching infinity. That would only be 1-B.
For the first explanation, it is noted that within the cosmology blog, this explanation is given :
The relevance of stating that Kouryu is a "nigh-omniscient" being is kinda useless since Gods are all "nigh-omnipotent" and "nigh-omniscient", the only thing that changes between Gods of higher ranking is their reach. Furthermore, the Ultimate God, who should be "more omniscient and more omnipotent" than Kouryu isn't even sure that there aren't other worlds that he can't grasp. Are you telling me that a "random God" knows time and space are infinite when even the most powerful one isn't sure?
Also, just check this. There is nothing else to add, frankly.
So yeah, saying it's infinite would need supporting evidence.
Therefore, the peak of the verse would be at an unquantifiable level into 1-B.
2. (Not so) Ultimate
UEG is currently Low 1-A to be seemingly able to "destroy the Ultimate Ensemble". However, it's impossible.
The evidence for such a thing is this scene. Which needs some explanation.
First, Kouryu explained the following while (more or less, it's just an illusion) being in front of UEG :
It should be self-explanatory, but Kouryu, currently in front of UEG, said that "An ultimate being capable of destroying all the universes on a whim hasn't appeared". UEG doesn't possess that kind of power, that's as clear as water. If she did, he wouldn't say such a being didn't appear, that being would be right in front of him.
That's not all, since not only Kouryu explain that he isn't sure of himself regarding the information he gives, but also that everything he said is merely a theory and that there might be not even a single shred of truth to any of it.
This, just this.
But don't worry, if you aren't convinced, let's delve into Volume 15.
Within this volume, we learn that an "Ultimate God" does exist, to some degree. The funny thing is, he's considered not only the strongest in "all possible worlds" but also the only one at this level. It wouldn't make any sense to say UEG is on the same level as the Ultimate God.
Worse, if we assume that she's indeed on the same level as him, it would mean that Luu and Alexia are also on the same level as him, with Mitsuki being stronger than them. Yeah, that just can't work, at all, or maybe Ultimate God got some dementia going on.
UEG's rating should be changed to 1-B thanks to her "numerous ascensions".
3. A Mimir Mitsuki
He scales higher than UEG. After all, he first had no other power besides his charm, but later on, UEG alongside Luu and Alexia gave him enough power to be at "110 points of power" compared to them. Moreover, the author also acknowledges this much.
He would scale at 1-B for being stronger than UEG. (This is already the case, but I'm merely explaining his rating more)
4. Yogurt
Within volume 15, we learn that Yogiri is indeed a limiter for the whole Ultimate Ensemble, it is in that sense that he "defines" it. Seeing the overall context, this translation would be better for this scene. But in any case, those are just details.
Rating Yogiri is complicated, honestly. There is a lot to take into account, but from what I've seen, WoG isn't used to scale the character, so at least we can ignore this.
If we had to review the highest feats he has done, it would be the following :
- Killing UEG/Being able to kill Mitsuki (1-B)
- Ultimate God saying he can't win against Yogiri (At least 1-B but higher than UEG/Mitsuki)
- He's a limiter for the Ultimate Ensemble World. (???)
The reason I'm placing the Ultimate God at "At least 1-B" isn't to be stupidly safe in his rating, but it's because there had been a statement from him that might imply he can't destroy all worlds. He explains that he's "able to know all worlds and exert influence" while also being "the strongest in all possible worlds he can think of", but at the same time, he can't be sure there aren't worlds that he can't grasp. I suppose a "possibly" higher rating might be warranted, it all depends on how the CRT goes really, and I'm not against discussing it.
So yeah, 1-B Yogiri, probably higher. Although, he would have a way bigger range than his AP.
I'm unsure if we can use Volume 15 stuff, but even if we can't for the time being, it's fine. Most of the information I've given is just to give all the context I could find, alongside giving all the explanation necessary. That's why I don't plan on going in-depth with Ultimate God.
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Agree : Floxiaaa, Dark_Soul20189, Astral_Trinity439, RoninSlayer200, Behemoth98, Ihsjihahxu, LifeRiderthe1 (Fine with unquantifiable into 1-B or High 1-B for Yogiri), Everything12, Quintessence_PE, Nexus_still_slams, Grabbing_dragon, KingNanaya, Robo432343, TWILIGHT-OP, Georredannea15, Railgun (For now), Eseseso
Disagree :
Neutral :
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