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The Elder Scrolls General Discussion Thread

oh and as for why miraak can't break out I think thats cuse his soul is the only thing thats left of him and his connection to mundus has been severed for ages as of now since we know that our bodies do stay where they were when we started reading the black books meaning that when his temple was being burned to a chrisp his body went with it, making the process of getting back to mundus not exactly all too easy aspecially when you are in a realm of a being to whom your soul is currently bound through a deal.
True but he needed the Dovah’s soul just to escape. If he was truly on the level of a prince or even close, he wouldn’t have such limits. Everything Miraak learned was from what miraak wanted to show him. Even the Oghma Infinium, mora only showed you what he wanted you to see. Miraak only got as strong as Mora allowed
 
I’m glad someone else is finally pointing out the Dragonborn absolutely doesn’t scale to Daedric princes and mora had four lines talking about how insignificant they are. “Miraak was weakened” the blow literally turned him to dust. He was absorbing dragon souls to regain his strength so he only got beaten up once from the perspective of this hit and it literally vaporized him. With Mora saying he was an idiot and nothing in comparison to him in the very same breath.
 
I’m glad someone else is finally pointing out the Dragonborn absolutely doesn’t scale to Daedric princes and mora had four lines talking about how insignificant they are. “Miraak was weakened” the blow literally turned him to dust. He was absorbing dragon souls to regain his strength so he only got beaten up once from the perspective of this hit and it literally vaporized him. With Mora saying he was an idiot and nothing in comparison to him in the very same breath.
again it didn't vaporize him I don't know where you are getting this, he turned into a skeleton after we consumed his soul which happens after mora pierces his chest.
 
Watch the fight again, he turns to a skeleton before the soul steal animation plays. You steal his soul after mora dust him from his hit.
 
Watch the fight again, he turns to a skeleton before the soul steal animation plays. You steal his soul after mora dust him from his hit.
have you not play'd skyrim before? its the dragon soul animation but on a human, they turn to skeleton's before we consume their souls fully, I mean like come on man.
 
I have played Skyrim for years and no the soul steal happens while they turn to skeletons Miraak’s happened well after he was dusted
 
I have played Skyrim for years and no the soul steal happens while they turn to skeletons Miraak’s happened well after he was dusted

are you? man in that very clip you see the dragon already a skeleton before the soul steal happens
literally the exact same as miraak here

8:25
same particles and all like come on my dude
 
The wave of soul leaving his body happens after he dies. When a company has an animation effect for being turned into a skeleton, they are going to use it again rather than making a brand new one for no reason. The soul steal happens well after he flops onto the ground as a skeleton, all other dragons in the game has the soul leave their body as the Dragonborn is killing them. Plus Miraak doesn’t turn you into a skeleton when he kills you.
 
It was outright stated in ESO that Mora could outright kill Miraak whenever. Even more so when he’s trapped in the realm and cannot escape. While I agree he’s much more of a schemer, I highly doubt given the everything we’ve been shown that either are even close to his level
hmm, I will admit with the additions of ESO mora is considerably stronger than miraak and the dragonborn but that does not prevent the scaling to princes as we also see in ESO that prince's powers can be vastly apart as seen when nocturnal casually banished both mephala and clavicus vile showing that while they are in her realm they don't really have any power to resist here (and her being the strongest prince and all)

also not gonna lie ESO is a damned mess lore and story wise because we have statements of our characters being outright inferior to the dragonborn from the Devs and later we have them fight Torvesard who has the power of mora and Ithelia (who is already more powerful than more and captured him in his own realm no less) and no matter the amount of help we get we shouldn't even be able to remotely stand close to someone with that level of power yet we do and win, then we have the amulate of kings being easily stronger than molag in his own realm while being held by a none dragonborn and yet when a dragonborn fully sacrifices it and unleashes its full power against mehrunes in mundus on an even playing field the avatar of akatosh barely edges out a victory.

I genuinely wish that ESO was never made cuse it messes with everything established prior
 
Need to point out to vile, easily the weakest prince, was so weak he was literally stuck in a cave as a dying avatar, said he was still stronger than you. Will continue to point that out because how could you possibly gloss over that when it lines up with mora one hit quitting Miraak, sheogorath and Merida being able to do whatever they want with you, Azura saying she has full control over you, Bal trapping you in a house, and every other daedric prince referring to you like a normal mortal in comparisons to their godhood.

Could the Dragonborn be high 1-B, maybe, anything Daedric prince related, absolutely not. Like I would argue it for alduin, but it would be an outlier for anyone else to scale to him if that’s the case.
 
The wave of soul leaving his body happens after he dies. When a company has an animation effect for being turned into a skeleton, they are going to use it again rather than making a brand new one for no reason.
yeah cept if you want to aruge mora vaporized him there is already an effect for actual vaporization rather than just the flesh being turned to ash in the game already the lighting vaporization animation which if they intended to show that mora was so much more powerful that he turned him to dust with a single strike they could've used.
The soul steal happens well after he flops onto the ground as a skeleton,
all other dragons in the game has the soul leave their body as the Dragonborn is killing them.
brother man, the dragons fall dead and then they start to turn to a skeleton you can quite literally see that in the clip you sent and hell if ya wanna argue sementics we see that the soul steal happens as miraak falls and his feet are yet to fully turn to ash.
Plus Miraak doesn’t turn you into a skeleton when he kills you.
yeah cuse you are not ment to lose, it'd be waste of budget to make an animation of that there.

brother you literally need to jump through a dozen hoops for your point to make sense when its clear that what we are seeing is the dragon soul steal animation like honestly.
 
It would be a copy and paste for the player, Skyrim includes a ton of small random details, I have been watching a series on it. I imagine the final boss of the dlc would have more effort put into it then literally a random guy in a cave in a fall off section of the map and those random encounters get a ton of small details, even down to different race dialogue for some random goobers. Especially since Miraak specifically has an encounter of stealing souls from you.

Mora literally one shot him. While saying he’s doing it, saying he sucks in all regards four times over, while he turns to dust. I think that’s the clearest cut I have ever seen for a character not scaling ever.

Alduin also has the soul effect happen instantly, and Shor can one hit you for another anti feat.
 
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It would be a copy and paste for the player, Skyrim includes a ton of small random details, I have been watching a series on it. I imagine the final boss of the dlc would have more effort put into it then literally a random guy in a cave in a fall off section of the map and those random encounters get a ton of small details, even down to different race dialogue for some random goobers. Especially since Miraak specifically has an encounter of stealing souls from you.
yeah there are a lot of small details here and there and then there are massive inconsistencies such as the dragonborn being affected by the poison from karlya despite being a vampire which gives us an in lore 100% poison resist making that part of the theif guild quest nonsensical
or how about the dark brotherhood base burning down being capable of killing the dragonborn per night mothers statements? despite us casually surviving dragon flames that can run entire towns to ash?
or how about the dragonborn being knocked out by the ceiling falling on him in the vyrthur fight despite a far weaker dragon born literally taking on the full brunt of the grey beards voices which can shake the whole damned world?
9-B late game dragonborn when?

Need to point out to vile, easily the weakest prince, was so weak he was literally stuck in a cave as a dying avatar, said he was still stronger than you. Will continue to point that out because how could you possibly gloss over that when it lines up with mora one hit quitting Miraak, sheogorath and Merida being able to do whatever they want with you, Azura saying she has full control over you, Bal trapping you in a house, and every other daedric prince referring to you like a normal mortal in comparisons to their godhood.

Could the Dragonborn be high 1-B, maybe, anything Daedric prince related, absolutely not. Like I would argue it for alduin, but it would be an outlier for anyone else to scale to him if that’s the case.
the whole game is hella inconsistent when it comes to details and scaling due to the total freedom it lends you, you can be at the peak of you power to the point where you can take down beings that can level entire universes with casual ease to then be taken down by some random shmuck through a basic trap arguing about dragonborn being flat out inferior to princes because of quests that can be taken at any point in the story is pointless, because if we go by that logic literally everyone would be like 8-C at most due to end game dragonborn being taken down by feats on that level in a couple of missions and the exact opposite can be used to scale dragonborn to insane heights that he clearly doesn't reach like having dragonborn fresh from helgen take down a dragon and go on to do the quest with clavicus where he flat out says that we are nearly as strong as his current weaken self who should be at least 33% his full strength (take away barbas who is at least half of his power and then the umbra incident which took a chunk of his strength) which would mean that end game dragonborn would be hundreds to thousands of times stronger than the weakest prince which is an insane approach, by end game dragonborn should be somewhat stronger than full Vile but not by some insane extent at most he'd be 4 times as strong as him after the miraak fight.

and same goes for the whole mora situation as we see mora is capable of trapping Ithelia and the moment she was released she was capable of running mora's pockets for everything he had and miraak actively gaining enough power to forcefully break free from mora through our soul means quite a bit and to make it clear it doesn't mean "oh dragonborn is stronger than any prince ect. ect." but more so that the combined power of the two dragonborn is enough to challange mora even if he is more powerful than them
Mora literally one shot him.
yes after we beat him to near death.
While saying he’s doing it, saying he sucks in all regards four times over, while he turns to dust. I think that’s the clearest cut I have ever seen for a character not scaling ever.
he talked smack to a dying character that we have just bested and yeah mora is stronger than him, cuse again I am not arguing the whole "alduin>all princes" but more so that the dragonborn past the miraak fight should scale just below top tier princes like mora and be about equal to mid tier princes.
Alduin also has the soul effect happen instantly, and Shor can one hit you for another anti feat.

we don't absorb alduin's soul he is a special case and both you and I know that and Shor is currently Talos, so yeah he'd one shot the dragonborn like hell current Talos should by all means dwarf anyone not named nocturnal in terms of pure power, we are talking a lorkhan (who is already waaay more powerful than most princes by himself) fused with aspects of akatosh through a dragon born (tiber septim) who has also achieved CHIM, if he couldn't one shot the dragonborn then the whole dragonborn>> all princes would have a lot more backing (although you can actually survive the whole lighting thing in gameplay, but that's gameplay and I ain't counting that)
 
There is a difference between gameplay stuff and specific dialogue about how Vile at his weakest is still better than you. He literally is not comparable to his normal strength in anyway. He’s stuck as an avatar that can only project its voice in a single cave. He clarifies he’s literally stuck in that singular cave
 
Mora also says Miraak was wrong and that he was literally nothing the whole time. The only reason you are there is for Mora to trick you into becoming a new servant for him.
 
There is a difference between gameplay stuff and specific dialogue about how Vile at his weakest is still better than you. He literally is not comparable to his normal strength in anyway. He’s stuck as an avatar that can only project its voice in a single cave. He clarifies he’s literally stuck in that singular cave.
I think you missed the whole point I was making, making any proper scaling chain through quests outside main story is near impossible due to the freedom given to you in the game you can be near as strong as vile at the start of the game or be near as strong as him at the end of the game, the only real detail from that quest we get is that after having consumed a dragon's soul we are nearly as strong as his weakened state thats all, gaining dozens of times more power does not change a damned thing because it was a single detail the dev's threw in, if you want to argue anything about that quest and where the dragonborn stands it can only be aruged through narrative of level unlocks as the quest only becomes avilable to the dragonborn at level 10 meaning that the dragonborn at that point would be starting to approach the weakened Vile in terms of power.
 
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Mora also says Miraak was wrong and that he was literally nothing the whole time. The only reason you are there is for Mora to trick you into becoming a new servant for him.
? he doesn't? he says verbatum "did you think you can escape me Miraak? you can hide nothing from me here" hell if anything the anger and the line itself implied that if miraak did consume our soul he'd have a legitimate shot at breaking free of mora's realm, does this mean he is 1:1 as strong as more? no, it only means that after doubling his power miraak would be strong enough to defy and break free of mora meaning he has enough power to be a threat and it would be somewhat backed up by the conversation with frea where we are told that we don't have to serve mora, again showing that the dragonborn post the miraak fight isn't bound to mora and can just leave when ever (again doesn't mean he is stronger than mora or is equal to him, just strong enough to be outside of mora's full control)
 
seen when nocturnal casually banished both mephala and clavicus vile showing that while they are in her realm they don't really have any power to resist here (and her being the strongest prince and all)
This is because of the primordial pact.
Torvesard who has the power of mora and Ithelia (who is already more powerful than more and captured him in his own realm no less) and no matter the amount of help we get we shouldn't even be able to remotely stand close to someone with that level of power yet we do and win
iirc correctly we had the mirror of truth and they weren’t at full power…I think.
mehrunes in mundus on an even playing field the avatar of akatosh barely edges out a victory.
Well to be fair Dagon is above Bal and that avatar of Akatosh did repairs the barriers to there’s that
 
I think I already said this but Kyne and Akatosh dominion over the many paths gives them a High 1-A rating, if not more. The many paths is a halo of p possibility that is even outside of the Aurbis. It covers fate, probability, possibility, impossibility, alternative worlds and other Aurbises, and so on. It gives them sovereignty over potentiality, actuality, and even will. When used to a lesser extent by Ithelia who cannot even control the many paths, it could create new stories. this essentially makes them pretty much almighty. It also makes them pretty much omniscient as well. It also can pretty much empower you full of boundless amounts of power from these possibilities and unrealized potential. The Aedra as a whole seem to be beyond even Aetherius:

The veil contains our tormentors: planets, guardians, ge. We speak to them, but they are silent to us, their backs turned in their haste. Beyond Aetherius lie the false creators: the architects, sentencers of our misery. Beyond Aurbis: the uncreated. Dream a bridge.
https://en.m.uesp.net/wiki/General:The_Soft_Doctrines_of_Magnus_Invisible,_revised

The Aurbis also contains impossible worlds as well. Seems juicy ngl
 
It's real!

Gomi948WwAAKUXP
 
So it sounds like ESO have made it so the princess scale higher than before tho outside this site I already had them way up there but nice to see it can even pass here.
 
So it sounds like ESO have made it so the princess scale higher than before tho outside this site I already had them way up there but nice to see it can even pass here.
oh even here it has been agreed that the princes scale way way way higher than where we have them at on their pages, its just that the pages are like half a decade out of date and the revisions are taking about 10 more years, so hey by the time we have everything sorted we may have something that will throw our whole scale of TES in the trash or the upper atmosphere and hey maybe by then we will even get TES 6 after skyrim Special legendary anniversary addition.
 
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oh even here it has been agreed that the princes scale way way way higher than where we have them at on their pages, its just that the pages are like half a decade long and the revisions are taking about 10 more years, so hey by the time we have everything sorted we may have something that will throw our whole scale of TES in the trash or the upper atmosphere and hey maybe by then we will even get TES 6 after skyrim Special legendary anniversary addition.
So the Digimon situation of everyone knows it needs a strong update but revisions for this and that reason one being the volume of the older information are taking ages.
 
and same goes for the whole mora situation as we see mora is capable of trapping Ithelia
Just wanna clear this up but it was ALL of the princes minus Vaermina and Peryite that teamed up on ithelia. Not just Mora. The Daedric pantheon has some real heavy hitters. Even Azura and Boethiah got in on that action too. So this by no means is an antifeat for her.
 
The amarath should be added to tes cosmology because its outdated
refer to this comment.
oh even here it has been agreed that the princes scale way way way higher than where we have them at on their pages, its just that the pages are like half a decade out of date and the revisions are taking about 10 more years, so hey by the time we have everything sorted we may have something that will throw our whole scale of TES in the trash or the upper atmosphere and hey maybe by then we will even get TES 6 after skyrim Special legendary anniversary addition.
 
All the Elder Scrolls pages are outdated, should we delete them and lock all of them?
 
Ngl oblivion is gonna be wild to scale whenever the revisions do start (don’t hold your breath). It’s beyond space and time, a higher gradient than Mundus, infinitely layered, is the debris of all possibility, contains infinite possibilities/variations/change, and even impossible worlds (and never will bes) like some EMR stuff. You could literally scale it anywhere from 1-A, 1-A+, or you could goon and use the infinite possibilities and impossibilities for High 1-A+ or something.

Then the many paths are the same thing just on steroids with All possible incarnations of the Aurbis (even some weird real life modern day variant) with impossible Aurbix structure (things that should not be). But yeah, revisions are gonna be crazy. And a warzone.
 
Ngl oblivion is gonna be wild to scale whenever the revisions do start (don’t hold your breath). It’s beyond space and time, a higher gradient than Mundus, infinitely layered, is the debris of all possibility, contains infinite possibilities/variations/change, and even impossible worlds (and never will bes) like some EMR stuff. You could literally scale it anywhere from 1-A, 1-A+, or you could goon and use the infinite possibilities and impossibilities for High 1-A+ or something.

Then the many paths are the same thing just on steroids with All possible incarnations of the Aurbis (even some weird real life modern day variant) with impossible Aurbix structure (things that should not be). But yeah, revisions are gonna be crazy. And a warzone.
no one willed to make a crt to change the tier
 
Theres no point. I tried making a CRT but unless ultima says something it just won’t go through lol
Ultima is the reason of why to much deletion, why we can't create Mathiverse and so many rejections exist
 
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Ngl oblivion is gonna be wild to scale whenever the revisions do start (don’t hold your breath). It’s beyond space and time, a higher gradient than Mundus, infinitely layered, is the debris of all possibility, contains infinite possibilities/variations/change, and even impossible worlds (and never will bes) like some EMR stuff. You could literally scale it anywhere from 1-A, 1-A+, or you could goon and use the infinite possibilities and impossibilities for High 1-A+ or something.

Then the many paths are the same thing just on steroids with All possible incarnations of the Aurbis (even some weird real life modern day variant) with impossible Aurbix structure (things that should not be). But yeah, revisions are gonna be crazy. And a warzone.
Is there a Elder Scrolls scaling Discord?
 
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