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My intuition tells me that someone wanted to update the format of the elder scrolls pages, but after they got done with Talos they probably said “Nah screw that. Too much work”.
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The Elder Scrolls General Discussion Thread
- Thread starter HelloThere1089
- Start date
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Besides the tiers need revising anyways. Tier 7/6 base Talos is criminal. So they were smart to just leave it be. I’m honestly surprised the TES profiles are still standing given how much dust they have on them
XSOULOFCINDERX
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Agreed tbh. I remember someone trying to upgrade Alduin and TLDB to scale to or above the Daedra since Alduin has statements and feats out the ass of being that strong but it kept being pushed back because of Mora finishing off a version of Miraak, the guy who can casually one-shot Alduin and Pre-DLC TLDB, who's literally at death's door from TLDB beating the **** out out of him repeatedly.
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Yeah and the talos stuff still needs some upgrading cus the uni+ key is based on the LDB whos profile is outdated i think
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Especially since Wulfarth can move the moons. High 1-B feat. I made a revision that everyone saw that said the Dovahkiin should be high 1-B due to scaling to both Ahzidal who can use dawn magic (should be 1-A tbh) and he surpassed the Ayelids who removed the moons from the sky. Second there was the whole eye of Magnus thing. High 1-B to 1-A base Talos would be Nioice
Edit: To show, Void nights were a phenomenon where the Moons were removed from the sky using dawn magic and it was stated that Harnessed dawn magics (and other things) but surpassed ALL else in history, even using the power of oblivion. He should scale to the Void nights at least.
Edit: To show, Void nights were a phenomenon where the Moons were removed from the sky using dawn magic and it was stated that Harnessed dawn magics (and other things) but surpassed ALL else in history, even using the power of oblivion. He should scale to the Void nights at least.
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Honestly this stuff isnt even that needed i think Alduin is just compared power wise and has good enough feats to scale to mundus~ damaging anyway.
The LDB can also hurt Harkon despite him being able to whistand Arrows from auriels bow for a bit, he also absorbed a great amount of power from the eye of magnus as well as survived being hit by the staff of magnus a couple of times, (those last 2 things are just a bonus)
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You do on here lol
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Fair enough
XSOULOFCINDERX
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He literally one-shots a Post-Alduin fight LDB and has a prolonged multi-phase boss fight with LDB after they got hella buffed by the DLC Shouts.
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Basically my thoughts, but the argument I hear against this is that the Last Dragonborn used Dragonrend a shout I think Miraak does not have to defeat Alduin with Paarthurnax, and later defeated him with the help of the three Nord heroes. Also, the fact that Miraak says "Felling Alduin was a mighty deed, and I thank you for it. He would have proved troublesome to me."
XSOULOFCINDERX
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He only would have been troublesome due to his immortality, he clearly can't compete stat wise since he casually stomped Post-Alduin LDB so hard with a basic shock spell that they couldn't even fight back against those fodder Seekers.
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Hermaus mora iterates you cant face him multiple times, and promotional material just calls him the strongest enemy
XSOULOFCINDERX
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And the actual lore of the franchise says Alduin would stomp him and literally every other Daedric Prince.
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Only in Aldudagga but this was proven to be incorrect. The princes destroy Alduin via the actual events of ESO
XitSign
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I'm still very new to Elder Scrolls lore and trying to make sense of everything to form an eventual opinion...this is the first time I've heard any mention of Alduin being refrenced like this for ESO, especially something as important as him being destroyed.
I could not find any mention of this looking it up, can you elaborate?
XSOULOFCINDERX
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What the hell are you talking about? Give me scans.
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Well, the actual lore showcased miraak oneshotting a beyond alduin level dovakihn, cant get much clearer then that, and alduin varies in strength depending on if hes full, so its irrelevant
XSOULOFCINDERX
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You didn't give me any scans.
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U havent played skyrim?
this is literally the first thing that happens when you meet miraak, and it was already stated by another user above
XSOULOFCINDERX
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I have played it like a 100 times. Miraak got taken off-guard after getting beaten to near death four times by the Dragonborn, otherwise if Mora could have iced him whenever he wanted then why not kill him as soon as he has LDB contracted to him via the third word of Bend Will? Oh right, because he couldn't.U havent played skyrim?
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When did i say this wasnt the case?
All i said was Miraak destroyed the dragonborn first confrontation.
I think you should get some sleep,cus your struggling to read what im saying or confused me with someone else
XSOULOFCINDERX
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God damnit, no you're right, I somehow mixed you up with the other guy with the other mostly grey colored PFP who I asked for scans from.When did i say this wasnt the case?
All i said was Miraak destroyed the dragonborn first confrontation.
I think you should get some sleep,cus your struggling to read what im saying or confused me with someone else
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God damnit, no you're right, I somehow mixed you up with the other guy with the other mostly grey colored PFP who I asked for scans from.
i knew something felt off igtg study now see yall later
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What I mean is actual scaling. Think about it. If he was truly above the princes and Miraak is casually above him then why couldn’t he leave Mora’s realm? He just doesn’t make any sense. Mora ain’t even the strongest either. In ESO there’s a casual mention of how Miraak is essentially just a pawn and they play thing for Mora:
This didn’t change in Skyrim either. Here it literally says no matter what you do, you’re basically his plaything. Miraak himself says during the battle of that Mora he’s literally laughing at them:“Hermaeus Mora is Laughing at us”
this isn’t the story of Mora being helpless like some Dansel in distress. It’s a story about a man trying to escape from his imprisonment, but cannot and needs the power of the All-Maker stones, dragons, and even the combine the power of the Dovahkiin just to escape his realm. Even then, all of the power that he accumulated came from Mora anyways and he only let him have as much knowledge and power as he wanted him to. I could bring up the various other examples, but Mora was just using him as a plaything, and now he’s using the dragonborn as a plaything.
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Incredible aura farmingAlright looks like the answer is no consensus. Also just Noticed this arena art.
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Deadric princes are way above them i think, i cant remember the exact scaling for the stones but it was prolly really simple for why princes are >>>>>>>celestials
Theyre obviously well above the demiprinces, otherwise the demiprinces would be princes.
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The All-Maker stones are the stones Sithis funnels his power into the land to keep the “oneness” of it
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Also trying to make a list of the 20 strongest Nords here is who I found worth mentioning so far.
Miraak, Ysmir Wulfharth, Shalidor, Morokei, Lord Harkon, Ahzidal, Vahlok, Jurgen Windcaller, Hevnoraak, Felldir, Gormlaith, Olaf One-Eye, Lady Belain, Ysgramor, Lyris Titanborn, Valerica, High King Harald, Ulfgar the Unending, Geirmund, Grundwulf.
Miraak, Ysmir Wulfharth, Shalidor, Morokei, Lord Harkon, Ahzidal, Vahlok, Jurgen Windcaller, Hevnoraak, Felldir, Gormlaith, Olaf One-Eye, Lady Belain, Ysgramor, Lyris Titanborn, Valerica, High King Harald, Ulfgar the Unending, Geirmund, Grundwulf.
XSOULOFCINDERX
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What about Nahkriin? He's the dude Alduin left in charge of his portal to Sovengarde after all and even wields the staff that powers said portal too as well as being the only Dragon Priest who actively uses all three Destruction Elements in combat on top of that. Also Zahkriisos doesn't have any cool lore feats but he can use god damn Lightning Storm one handed and with barely any charge time.
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this doesn't exactly describe mora's power but more so his "shaper of fate" title, his ability to plan and intrap you in his webs without you even realizing, same goes for the "mora is laughing at us" statement from miraak as its not exactly about oh more is so much more powerful than us and more so "he has set us against one another at no cost to himself we are pawn's in his plans despite our power as we keep falling into the moves he wants us to make" type deal ya know? Like I am always first to say that I don't think Dovakhin or miraak are that far apart from the princes in terms of power there is simply to much backing up them being at that high a level but them being close in power does not mean they can't be outwitted or used by mora who has done the exact same thing to other princes of oblivion in ESO, the thing is a schemer and rarely relies on pure power to win and almost always relies on his wits which allowed him to put down away a prince that could be argued to be the most powerful out of the lot.
Tl;Dr miraak and dovakhin are not much weaker if weaker at all in comperison to mora but are simply getting play'd like fools.
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oh and as for why miraak can't break out I think thats cuse his soul is the only thing thats left of him and his connection to mundus has been severed for ages as of now since we know that our bodies do stay where they were when we started reading the black books meaning that when his temple was being burned to a chrisp his body went with it, making the process of getting back to mundus not exactly all too easy aspecially when you are in a realm of a being to whom your soul is currently bound through a deal.
XSOULOFCINDERX
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Don't we turn intangible when that happens too though? Frea mentioned to us that we were see through while using it so it is kind of weird. Then again Dragons being able to attack intangible targets is nothing new either since everyone and their mother in Skyrim can smack Ghosts and Illusionary constructs alike.
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Good points Nahkriin also has a strong mask, I honestly imagine all Priests to be above very strong mages.
XSOULOFCINDERX
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Oh yeah and even ignoring what I said, Nahkriin's only on-screen scaling is against End of Vanilla Game LDB. Despite him losing that fight the fact that he presented a roadblock to Alduin at all and is still higher level than most other enemies in the game is still pretty telling.
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It was outright stated in ESO that Mora could outright kill Miraak whenever. Even more so when he’s trapped in the realm and cannot escape. While I agree he’s much more of a schemer, I highly doubt given the everything we’ve been shown that either are even close to his level
