Mr. Bambu
Suffer-Not-Injustice Bambu
VS Battles
Joke Battles
Super Moderator
Administrator
Calculation Group
Silver Supporter
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Also known as "If The Horse Is Being Beaten This Much, Maybe It's Time We Just Let It Die, As Nature Intended".
Summary
In the past, we have repeatedly debated whether or not the SCP Foundation (and verses very similar to it) had a place on this wiki. Concerns on this front were largely based on the notion that because of how easily one could contribute to the written works of the verse, it would not only be possible but likely that our own wiki would come to corrupt it in a way, with our terminology and ideas leaking into it resulting in a situation where pages were written with explicit knowledge about how to make a verse "meta" here- that is to say, very powerful.
We decided to let it stay, because the counterargument was always "yes, but they need double digit upvotes to be accepted, and in scenarios so far where pages were submitted with VSBW-ified lingo, they've been shut down". This debate arose again when it was made known that, yes, site users had successfully published their own articles to the SCP wiki and gotten them through the rating requirement. These pages weren't particularly grievous with their terminology, however, and so we continued to allow SCP to serve as an oft-cited exception-to-the-rule, although many similar situations saw discussion about this being hard to accept with certain sections of our membership, such as discussion on verses like the Backrooms.
Now that you're caught up on the past, I will state the obvious intent of this thread for the future: we propose that SCP be deleted, on the grounds that these general countermeasures to bad articles have failed to properly filter out Suggsverse-esque pages for the SCP wiki. There is a good amount of evidence to suggest that SCP writers not only know of VSBW and its tiering conventions (in fact, this much is downright irrefutable), but that they furthermore know how to use these conventions to boost the tiering considerations of the verse.
Thus, SCP ought to be deleted. Our one consideration that has allowed SCP to remain as that exception has been nullified.
Case One: The Abraka David's Proposal
The first intent of this thread is to establish that SCP writers directly, and relatively frequently reference their own high-tiers on our wiki. It is also notable to mention that we do currently allow Joke-type pages on the wiki, having no strict rule against their existence. There is similarly no rule about how strong these pages may be to be accepted.
As such, it is considered extremely worrying that an SCP page (not in the extended canon- its own SCP page) that is completely valid for page creation on our wiki, mentions being "Outerversal".
Case Two: Who Asked
This inclusion serves to show that what might be called the "main" SCP writers (or, at least, some of them) are well aware of our wiki. They are asked about tiering their own works on our wiki, and approach the question in seriousness, as well as the follow-up questions. This isn't an article or anything but shows a good grasp of our wiki for writers of the SCP wiki.
Case Three: The Parable of the Conscript
Simply put, this was made by one of our users, Iapetus the Impaler. I know him personally and he showed it to me when he first published it back in 2020. Now, Iapetus deliberately wrote some of his content to avoid discussing VSBW themes and ideas, and even approached me to ask about how to avoid that. I am satisfied with the result, however it cannot be maintained that all SCP writers do the same. I include his stories more for posterity than anything, and to put forth the notion that we cannot accept all to be as graceful as him.
Case Four: Baroque Unreality
A less worrying case, but still worthy of mention following the above for its similar explicit mention of our lingo. It even goes so far as to cite the wiki pages it is satirizing, in particular our concept of "Tier 0" and our page on the Department of Unreality, which is the piece of Extended Canon this article is from. This, too, has well exceeded the necessary rating to be considered "canon" per our standards on that subject.
It should be irrefutably known now that SCP writers are, broadly speaking, aware of the wiki sufficiently to integrate its lingo into their own pages to achieve the effecs they want. Here, it is obvious their intended impressions are comedic or scornful: they achieve this by mentioning us directly. Other pages on the SCP wiki appear to be guilty of the same, but less explicitly, which we believe to be intentional to allow publication on our wiki (which further cements a competent awareness of VS Battles Wiki and its rulings on the subject).
Case Five: Chaoskampf and Creation
I consider this to be the most egregious of the pages that do not directly mention VSBW but appear to be written in such a way as to "game" our system, as even the first paragraph opens up and unloads many statements that would inarguably be used as justifications for high tiers. It is written deliberately to achieve power in our tiering systems and with our ability pages. Feel free to read it for yourself, one feels little need to elaborate on why this is extremely "off".
Case Six: A Journey Through The Afterlife
An interesting companion to Chaoskampf is this article which appears to do much the same, with very specific wording choices entering into it: the use of "Platonic Concept" as opposed to "Platonic Form" suggests discussion of the matter on VSBW or with people who use it, as the former term is most often used here due to fitting in with our Conceptual Manipulation page, compared to the latter being the appropriate one. This mixed with the apparent goal to unify every single religion and render them canon for SCP as a verse reads as though it is written with a certain amount of knowledge and intent regarding our wiki.
Allow me to be clear: this page stacks infinite layers of Plato's concept of forms, does so while using terminologies suspiciously derived from our own conventions, and is beyond the requisite amount of votes to be considered canon.
Case Seven: Lesser Instances of Evidence
Although they are notable for being easily discovered instances of manipulation on the part of SCP writers, they are simple enough to not warrant broader discussion, and can be used as bit pieces of evidence. This thread does not claim to be exhaustive, rather that even casually browsing the deeper bits of the SCP wiki will yield articles apparently written with the intent of achieving higher tiers and better abilities.
To begin our segment on strange outliers for consideration, this tale was deleted but similarly to the first few cases mentions our tiering terminology explicitly and directly (again apparently using/satirizing Tllmbrg's work on SCP pages). Though deleted, it represents more evidence of various SCP writers having open and working knowledge of our standards.
Case Nine: Who Is He?
Acknowledging that it distracts from the point somewhat, the other oddity up for discussion is AI writing. This tale was written using ChatGPT, and is (admittedly barely) above the threshold to be considered totally acceptable for addition to VSBW. This is a secondary consideration to the broader problem of VSBW leaking into and corrupting the SCP wiki, but it is necessary to address it at some point, anyhow.
Addendum One: Miscreation and Imperfectionism
Mentioned to me by @Agnaa about 15 minutes after posting the thread is this tale which, quoting him, "This one was very close to just reciting the planned tier 0 standards shortly after they were accepted". It was deleted by the author rather than the site staff, and was regarded well enough to be considered canon.
Conclusion
SCP represents an unmitigable problem for our wiki, in that it allows anybody to contribute and, by that measure, add to its mythos ideas pulled directly from our wiki (and thus violating our rules on the subject). Evidence strongly suggests that this has happened multiple times (and these are just what have been pulled from the hulking mass of their writing: it appears plausible if not downright likely that many other examples exist), with many SCP writers directly referencing VSBW in both serious and non-serious capacities. They have no rules against the subject, and so far we have relied solely on their rating system, whereby a page must be above -10 votes to remain on their wiki. This being a fairly lax requirement for our purposes has allowed these listed cases to exist within the SCP "canon".
As such, it is clear that SCP has become so ridden with VSBW terminology and lingo that is is impossible to separate them to the satisfaction of our wiki, and any measure less than deletion will inevitably come to be addled with the same problems: therefore, the proposal is total deletion. It has been discussed with FC/OC staff already that they would be unwilling to allow the verse onto their wiki.
Vote Tallies
Summary
In the past, we have repeatedly debated whether or not the SCP Foundation (and verses very similar to it) had a place on this wiki. Concerns on this front were largely based on the notion that because of how easily one could contribute to the written works of the verse, it would not only be possible but likely that our own wiki would come to corrupt it in a way, with our terminology and ideas leaking into it resulting in a situation where pages were written with explicit knowledge about how to make a verse "meta" here- that is to say, very powerful.
We decided to let it stay, because the counterargument was always "yes, but they need double digit upvotes to be accepted, and in scenarios so far where pages were submitted with VSBW-ified lingo, they've been shut down". This debate arose again when it was made known that, yes, site users had successfully published their own articles to the SCP wiki and gotten them through the rating requirement. These pages weren't particularly grievous with their terminology, however, and so we continued to allow SCP to serve as an oft-cited exception-to-the-rule, although many similar situations saw discussion about this being hard to accept with certain sections of our membership, such as discussion on verses like the Backrooms.
Now that you're caught up on the past, I will state the obvious intent of this thread for the future: we propose that SCP be deleted, on the grounds that these general countermeasures to bad articles have failed to properly filter out Suggsverse-esque pages for the SCP wiki. There is a good amount of evidence to suggest that SCP writers not only know of VSBW and its tiering conventions (in fact, this much is downright irrefutable), but that they furthermore know how to use these conventions to boost the tiering considerations of the verse.
Thus, SCP ought to be deleted. Our one consideration that has allowed SCP to remain as that exception has been nullified.
Case One: The Abraka David's Proposal
The first intent of this thread is to establish that SCP writers directly, and relatively frequently reference their own high-tiers on our wiki. It is also notable to mention that we do currently allow Joke-type pages on the wiki, having no strict rule against their existence. There is similarly no rule about how strong these pages may be to be accepted.
As such, it is considered extremely worrying that an SCP page (not in the extended canon- its own SCP page) that is completely valid for page creation on our wiki, mentions being "Outerversal".
Case Two: Who Asked
This inclusion serves to show that what might be called the "main" SCP writers (or, at least, some of them) are well aware of our wiki. They are asked about tiering their own works on our wiki, and approach the question in seriousness, as well as the follow-up questions. This isn't an article or anything but shows a good grasp of our wiki for writers of the SCP wiki.
Case Three: The Parable of the Conscript
Simply put, this was made by one of our users, Iapetus the Impaler. I know him personally and he showed it to me when he first published it back in 2020. Now, Iapetus deliberately wrote some of his content to avoid discussing VSBW themes and ideas, and even approached me to ask about how to avoid that. I am satisfied with the result, however it cannot be maintained that all SCP writers do the same. I include his stories more for posterity than anything, and to put forth the notion that we cannot accept all to be as graceful as him.
Case Four: Baroque Unreality
A less worrying case, but still worthy of mention following the above for its similar explicit mention of our lingo. It even goes so far as to cite the wiki pages it is satirizing, in particular our concept of "Tier 0" and our page on the Department of Unreality, which is the piece of Extended Canon this article is from. This, too, has well exceeded the necessary rating to be considered "canon" per our standards on that subject.
It should be irrefutably known now that SCP writers are, broadly speaking, aware of the wiki sufficiently to integrate its lingo into their own pages to achieve the effecs they want. Here, it is obvious their intended impressions are comedic or scornful: they achieve this by mentioning us directly. Other pages on the SCP wiki appear to be guilty of the same, but less explicitly, which we believe to be intentional to allow publication on our wiki (which further cements a competent awareness of VS Battles Wiki and its rulings on the subject).
Case Five: Chaoskampf and Creation
I consider this to be the most egregious of the pages that do not directly mention VSBW but appear to be written in such a way as to "game" our system, as even the first paragraph opens up and unloads many statements that would inarguably be used as justifications for high tiers. It is written deliberately to achieve power in our tiering systems and with our ability pages. Feel free to read it for yourself, one feels little need to elaborate on why this is extremely "off".
Case Six: A Journey Through The Afterlife
An interesting companion to Chaoskampf is this article which appears to do much the same, with very specific wording choices entering into it: the use of "Platonic Concept" as opposed to "Platonic Form" suggests discussion of the matter on VSBW or with people who use it, as the former term is most often used here due to fitting in with our Conceptual Manipulation page, compared to the latter being the appropriate one. This mixed with the apparent goal to unify every single religion and render them canon for SCP as a verse reads as though it is written with a certain amount of knowledge and intent regarding our wiki.
Allow me to be clear: this page stacks infinite layers of Plato's concept of forms, does so while using terminologies suspiciously derived from our own conventions, and is beyond the requisite amount of votes to be considered canon.
Case Seven: Lesser Instances of Evidence
Although they are notable for being easily discovered instances of manipulation on the part of SCP writers, they are simple enough to not warrant broader discussion, and can be used as bit pieces of evidence. This thread does not claim to be exhaustive, rather that even casually browsing the deeper bits of the SCP wiki will yield articles apparently written with the intent of achieving higher tiers and better abilities.
- The Third Law: A glossary of terms used for this branch of SCP fiction, including a couple that stand out as strikingly similar to our own definition of things. Their definition of concept bears a reasonably strong resemblance to our own for Type 1s, and their definition of the Void is also notable. Much of this is written in VSBW-esque jargon.
- SCP-CN-2510: Ostensibly translated from Chinese to English from within official SCP channels, this article has similar levels of VS-Speak being employed: "In the very beginning, before the concept of history even existed, beyond the infinite layers of nested narratives, beyond all the concepts that make up that incomprehensible Noosphere, outside all the infinite dimensions, farther in than the grand shape of The Tree of Knowledge standing above the sea that is called the multiverse, there was one, infinite, omnipotent Metanormalcy." It takes great pains to expand on ideas that don't seem to assist the writing but do net certain esoteric abilities (transduality and so on).
To begin our segment on strange outliers for consideration, this tale was deleted but similarly to the first few cases mentions our tiering terminology explicitly and directly (again apparently using/satirizing Tllmbrg's work on SCP pages). Though deleted, it represents more evidence of various SCP writers having open and working knowledge of our standards.
Case Nine: Who Is He?
Acknowledging that it distracts from the point somewhat, the other oddity up for discussion is AI writing. This tale was written using ChatGPT, and is (admittedly barely) above the threshold to be considered totally acceptable for addition to VSBW. This is a secondary consideration to the broader problem of VSBW leaking into and corrupting the SCP wiki, but it is necessary to address it at some point, anyhow.
Addendum One: Miscreation and Imperfectionism
Mentioned to me by @Agnaa about 15 minutes after posting the thread is this tale which, quoting him, "This one was very close to just reciting the planned tier 0 standards shortly after they were accepted". It was deleted by the author rather than the site staff, and was regarded well enough to be considered canon.
Conclusion
SCP represents an unmitigable problem for our wiki, in that it allows anybody to contribute and, by that measure, add to its mythos ideas pulled directly from our wiki (and thus violating our rules on the subject). Evidence strongly suggests that this has happened multiple times (and these are just what have been pulled from the hulking mass of their writing: it appears plausible if not downright likely that many other examples exist), with many SCP writers directly referencing VSBW in both serious and non-serious capacities. They have no rules against the subject, and so far we have relied solely on their rating system, whereby a page must be above -10 votes to remain on their wiki. This being a fairly lax requirement for our purposes has allowed these listed cases to exist within the SCP "canon".
As such, it is clear that SCP has become so ridden with VSBW terminology and lingo that is is impossible to separate them to the satisfaction of our wiki, and any measure less than deletion will inevitably come to be addled with the same problems: therefore, the proposal is total deletion. It has been discussed with FC/OC staff already that they would be unwilling to allow the verse onto their wiki.
Vote Tallies
- Agree with deletion (14): Mr. Bambu, Chariot190, Qawsedf234, Planck69, CloverDragon03, Deagonx, Propellus, Antvasima, GarrixianXD, Flashlight237, Psychomaster35, Damage3245, Crabwhale, Catzlaflame,, Maverick_Zero_X, DontTalk, DarkDragonMedeus, Theglassman12, Firestorm808
- Disagree with deletion (4): Agnaa, Sir_Ovens, Tllmbrg. IdiosyncraticLawyer, Colonel_Krukov, CrimsonStarFallen
- Agree with deletion of 1-A and up (1): Everything12
- Agree with extremely limited editing allowances (1): Wokistan
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