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The Current Ruling on YouTube profiles and other issues

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That doesn't really answer my question.

My question: Do advertisement characters who have an ongoing rivalry with callbacks in advertisements count as having a story?

Your answer: Mascots with officially published comicbooks, games, etc are allowed.
 
@Agnaa

I don't think so, no. We have to draw the line somewhere.
 
How about this adjusted version?

"The VS Battles Wiki is, first and foremost, a fictional character indexing site. All featured characters in our profiles should originate within actual stories, from notable or popular works. A story includes a plot, a fictional setting, and having a defined canon. At the very least, the setting should be entirely fictional in nature, with no true bearing over the real world.

Do not create any joke profiles, as they do not fit into our tiering system. Also avoid creating profiles for fan characters, advertisement characters, memes, YouTube personalities, reality television, talk shows, music videos, stage personas, and the like. If you wish to create such profiles, feel free to do so in the Joke Battles wiki instead.

Take note that we are not experienced lawyers, so it is hard to precisely cover every angle, but to explain further, we are trying to keep the wiki reasonably streamlined and focused, to not allow in real people. Stage personas, such as YouTube and TV show hosts, tend to lack a 4th wall between them and the audience, and are not explicitly fictional in nature, as part of an actual story with a plot, regardless of special effects. They are real people who are affecting a behavioural change/acting out of character relative to their true personalities, but the setting is otherwise unchanged from reality and not fictional in nature. Characters are separate from the real actors portraying them, and are not just variations of themselves.

Corporate mascots and advertisement characters are not part of fictional storylines, regardless of feats in commercials and similar. It is preferable to not allow any incoherent figments without substance to be featured here. However, if they have officially published comicbooks, games, etcetera to scale from, they can probably be included.

The only exception to these rules is Real Life, which serves as more of a reference for feats and common weapons and animals, rather than being an actual verse.

Characters that originate from fictional canons or franchises, and share the same names as their real world counterparts are allowed, on the condition that they fulfill the requirements mentioned above."
 
Antvasima said:
@Agnaa

I don't think so, no. We have to draw the line somewhere.
Click to expand...
I understand this, but this thread was made because the line was arbitrarily drawn. If there ends up being a new rule that's just as arbitrary then this thread was kind of pointless, except for just moving the line further along (possibly setting a precedent for moving the line further every couple of years?)

@Ovens I forgot to bring this up earlier, but what are your thoughts on profiles for characters that don't have a continuous/ongoing narrative, but which still have various storylines? Currently these are allowed under the rules as long as they're not done by musicians or YouTube personalities, I think this was why Danny Sexbang and Ninja Bria had their pages deleted rather than just having statistics updated.
 
@Agnaa

Like I mentioned, we are not lawyers who can cover every single obscure hypothetical situation. I think that my current outline for the new regulation text is very long for the Editing Rules page as it is.
 
@Iapitus

Please elaborate.
 
"I think that my current outline for the new regulation text is very long for the Editing Rules page as it is."

That's why I think we should be working on a policy page. We need these policies explained in depth, because they aren't simple enough to not do that.
 
Antvasima said:
@Iapitus
Please elaborate.
Click to expand...
I say this because I remember someone taking a given profile and mistaking it for a joke profile simply because the profile itself was funny. I sadly do not remember the specific one in question, but I shall try and find an alternate example. I guess Thunder McQuee's profile is something that many users find to be funny due to the absurdity of the power set (also something something suicide jokes etc.), or some people find Dr Gerald's comedically extreme power set, but the actual profiles are completely valid, which sets it apart from something like most of the profiles on Joke Battles wiki.
 
Here are all of the regulations as they will look in the Editing Rules page:

  • The VS Battles Wiki is, first and foremost, a fictional character indexing site. All featured characters in our profiles should originate within actual stories, from notable or popular works. A story includes a plot, a fictional setting, and having a defined canon. At the very least, the setting should be entirely fictional in nature, with no true bearing over the real world.
  • Do not add any original or fan-made characters to the wiki. If you wish to create any original/fan-made character profiles, feel free to do so in the FC/OC wiki.
  • Do not create any joke profiles, as they do not fit into our tiering system. Also avoid creating profiles for fan characters, advertisement characters, memes, YouTube personalities, reality television, talk shows, music videos, stage personas, and the like. If you wish to create such profiles, feel free to do so in the Joke Battles wiki instead. There is obviously a difference between a profile written as a joke, and the character itself being automatically funny.
  • Take note that we are not experienced lawyers, so it is hard to precisely cover every angle, but to explain further, we are trying to keep the wiki reasonably streamlined and focused, to not allow in real people. Stage personas, such as YouTube and TV show hosts, tend to lack a 4th wall between them and the audience, and are not explicitly fictional in nature, as part of an actual story with a plot, regardless of special effects. They are real people who are affecting a behavioural change/acting out of character relative to their true personalities, but the setting is otherwise unchanged from reality and not fictional in nature. Characters are separate from the real actors portraying them, and are not just variations of themselves.
  • It is also prohibited to create profiles for fictionalised stage personas for other reasons, whether these have their origins in music videos, educational programs, or otherwise: For one thing, it is inappropriate for largely underage wiki members to discuss which real people that would hypothetically be most capable of killing each other, and for another, a vast majority of these artists are extremely willing to file lawsuits against anybody who uses their brand for which they own intellectual property rights, regardless whether or not these are meant to be used for commercial or fair use purposes. It would be recommended and preferable to avoid adding such profiles to Joke Battles as well.
  • Corporate mascots and advertisement characters are not part of fictional storylines, regardless of feats in commercials and similar. It is preferable to not allow any incoherent figments without substance to be featured here. However, if they have officially published comicbooks, games, etcetera to scale from, they can probably be included.
  • The only exception to these rules is Real Life, which serves as more of a reference for feats and common weapons, events, and animals, rather than being an actual verse.
  • Characters that originate from fictional canons or franchises, and share the same names as their real world counterparts are allowed, on the condition that they fulfill the requirements mentioned above.
 
@Iapitus

I made an addition above.

@Andy

Okay, but it would have to be based on our regular editing rules.
 
I strongly agree with Ant here. I'm glad that there's some compromise with an updated Editing rules, because we came dangerously close to basically merging in stuff that ought to be on JokesBattles.

Like seriously, JokesBattles isn't just for Memetic Tier Shaggy wank profiles and spam.
 
Thank you for the input. Are the rest of you fine with if I replace the current rules with the ones listed above?
 
oh boy I just got invited here and boy oh boy what a long thread

So based on Ant's rules, it seems that personas are a no (which I agree with) but fictional characters portrayed by people with personas are okay? Just as an example, the old Darkiplier profile was deleted on the premise of just being the edgy dark alter ego persona of the YouTuber Markiplier, whereas Wilford Warfstache was allowed to stay on the premise that it was from an established story presented by that same YouTuber?

I can agree to that, then. Not sure what else I should be adding to the conversation to be honest but consent/agreement is a technically a contribution, so woohoo.
 
@Andytrenom

Thanks. I will apply them then.

@Mr. Bambu

Pretty much, yes.
 
Sorry I couldn't comment earlier, I was I'm school. I agree with Ant's changes to the ruling. Though the use of persona could be elaborated upon.

Given the changes to the rules, I think I can adjust the policy page to further explain what falls under these guidelines instead.

Or I could overhaul it and use it to explain what YouTube related profiles are allowed here, considering this whole conversation sparked from the legitimacy of YouTube profiles.
 
Well, the most important thing is to elaborate on, and not contradict, the regulations that I inserted into the Editing Rules page.
 
Understood. I'll fix the page once I get home.
 
Thank you.
 
Thread is too big and convoluted for me to bother reading but here's my two cents:

Youtube Celebrities / Show Hosts playing fictionalized versions of themselves for comedy skits in their Videogame Reviews or whatnot shouldn't be allowed.

A Youtuber playing a fictionalized version of himself for an Youtube Red Movie / Show with an actual storyline could be allowed.

Wrestling / WWE is completely fine. It is 100% fictional.
 
That is pretty close to how I see it as well.
 
Not sure what being monetized or sponsored by YouTube has to do with counting as a fictional character.
 
Wait so would characters from Board James be allowed since it has its own storyline and cosmology yet characters from the AVGN video series won't be allowed?
 
Awesomeverse is what you mean, I believe. But yeah, AVgN and others have a connected plot series and the whole internet reviewer is a vehicle for plot in-universe.
 
Do music characters like The Wolf (SIAMES) and Captain Nancy fall under the current issue as well? They are clearly fictional characters apart from reality but are characters originated from a fictional story in a music video.

Otherwise they are not fan characters, advertisement characters, YouTube personalities, memes (well any character can be a meme), stage personas (wth this even means - along with fictional stage personas), and the like. Glad they can still live in the Joke Battles Wikia at least.

Personally I am okay for banning (in VSBW only) fan characters, YouTube personalities and real life celebrities, but all fictional characters from a reasonably known literature should stay. Otherwise we can say for one day live action characters are banned because they are real life celebrities then basically MCU and DCEU profiles crumble.

E.G. James Rolfe and Nancy Sit should be banned in VSBW but Angry Video Game Nerd and Captain Nancy should stay.
 
I realize that I still have not made my stance on music videos clear yet.

I think that music videos by their very nature should not be used as means to add verses onto our site. The characters portrayed in them are usually the stars singing or are used to supplement the song being sung. They are used as a means to better portay the messages of the song and I feel there is very little narrative cohesion going on in a music video.

Music videos that supplement a wider verse like the works of Gorillaz or Steam Powered Giraffe can be used to justify feats as the music video itself is not the main story, the wider verse is. The music video is akin to supplementary material to compliment the narrative of the greater story.

Make no mistake though, animated music videos without a greater story should not be added to the wiki. They still fall under the premise of portraying the themes of the song, and thus are just vessels for messages.
 
I agree with Sir Ovens.
 
Thank you for the help. I don't have the time to check through it right now though. My apologies.
 
I generally agree with the principles laid by Sir Ovens, except for some characters I may want elaboration):

Does characters like Angry Video Game Nerd and characters that specifically exist for the show when games tied to them are introduced (e.g. Bugs Bunny, Freddy Krueger, Jason Voorhees, Ryu Hayabusa, R2-D2) get banned or allowed? (James Rolfe as the producer of the show is clearly banned.)

Does Wiz and Boomstick (Death Battle) get banned or allowed? They have their own fictional canon in a show of comparative literature about versus debates of characters from different fiction. (Then again, Ben Singer and Chad James are clearly banned).


And I believe:

a.) Kool-Aid Man in the ad should not have profiles in the VSBW but the Marvel Comics version and Atari 2600 game versions should remain for instance. b.) The real actor is refrained, but the characters they play as in live action movies should remain, e.g. Donnie Yen is banned but Ip Ma and Chirrut Îmwe should be allowed.

c) I believe also, music video characters should be treated the same way as other characters that appear in TV series, live action movies, dramas, operas, musicals. (e.g. Nancy Sit may sing for a song with a music video with a superheroine character. Nancy Sit should be banned but the fictional superheroine should be allowed.) Same treatment for characters portrayed on other songs or musical/drama etc. (The Phantom of the Opera, Don Quijote, The Nutcracker, etc.)
 
We already have Verses that use unlicensed appearances of characters. EBG has Goku after all
 
To answer your question, characters that are unlicensed aren't necessarily considered worth having profiles for, but characters can use them if they summon them for example, so maybe
 
Fiction be damned. This is about notability and it's always been about notability.

It doesn't have to be YouTube Red specifically, Matt was just citing an example. Also, this is way too controversial for no reason. A YouTube DBZ fan movie belongs on FC/OC because it's a fanmade variation of an already existing work. A youtube film that's like two bucks and has a cast of actual characters is okay. It's a film production, just on a lesser scale than a Hollywood blockbuster.

I think AVGN could have a profile but only the film appearance, not his game reviews (though they might be too closely related).

Ronald McDonald from a commercial needs no profile, but a Ronald McDonald from a McDonald's serialized cartoon on YouTube would be allowed.

How many times must we have the exact same conversation?
 
AVGN's storyline is directly tied in with his reviews, because the character that they play is a reviewer in universe.
 
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