The Champion of the Underground vs the Champion of Public Fighting, Baki Hamna vs Yu

[The_man_with_the_Midas_touch]

Spoiler: Story

While K oversees Yu's training for his fated title match against the famous “Aaron Tide”, a small, bald man bursts into his boxing gym. From his appearance, he seemed to be Japanese, though...K didn't quite care where the man was from, and was about to simply have him thrown out....

That is until, he heard his proposition.

The man, identifying himself as Tokugawa, was running a fighting arena underneath the Tokyo Dome, somewhere where only the strongest fighters around the world would gather. Karate, Kenpo, Sumo, Aikido, street brawling...they say there was even a man who fought by biting. It was an anything-goes arena...one where I man could prove himself to be above any other...

A grin spread across K’s face. Wicked, sinister, and almost...insane. He agreed to enter Yu into the arena...

But only if he could fight its champion.

Yu didn't seem to care one way or another...but, from the conversation they had later, it seemed said “champion” was all too willing to accept the sudden challenge....

Yu VS Baki Hanma

Post-Santorino fight Yu.

Maximum Tournment Arc Baki.

Speed is Eqaulized

Battle takes place within the Tokyo Dome Arena.

 

[azontr]

What is Bak-e AP

 

[Cimafranca133]

What is Bak-e AP

Baki =(fought on even grounds with)= Jack Hanma >(easily defeated)> Garland >(one-shot)> Kaoru >(grossly overpowered)> Spec (0.0216 Tons)

 

[Sir_Ovens]

Yu is vastly outskilled here so he'd have to rely on stats to get a victory.

Leaning Baki for now.

 

[azontr]

Yu is vastly outskilled here so he'd have to rely on stats to get a victory.

"Vastly outskilled" my ass lol.

 

[LordGinSama]

Kuroki Gensai.

 

[azontr]

Kuroki Gensai.

Based.

 

[The_man_with_the_Midas_touch]

"Vastly outskilled" my ass lol.

Hit 'em with the skill essay, Azontr

 

[azontr]

Hit 'em with the skill essay, Azontr

Soon, my minion. Soon.

 

[Sir_Ovens]

Maximum Tournament Arc Baki has fought boxers before, on top of users of a variety of other martial arts.

So yes, Yu is likely outskilled here.

 

[azontr]

Maximum Tournament Arc Baki has fought boxers before, on top of users of a variety of other martial arts.

So yes, Yu is likely outskilled here.

Fighting Boxers does not mean he has fought Boxers as skilled as Yu, so a complete non-argument.

 

[The_man_with_the_Midas_touch]

Oven, if you aren't familiar with the character just say that from the start-

Baki may beat Yu in terms of experience alone, but Yu is incomparable to any boxer Baki has fought in the past.

 

[azontr]

What types of Boxers has Baki fought, to begin with? Like, who specifically, and what are their skill feats exactly?

 

[Sir_Ovens]

Oven, if you aren't familiar with the character just say that from the start-

Baki may beat Yu in terms of experience alone, but Yu is incomparable to any boxer Baki has fought in the past.

I'm familiar with both characters?

I've read Baki and The Boxer. I know their feats.

 

[azontr]

I've read Baki and The Boxer. I know their feats.

Then perhaps you missed a LOT, because Yu is not at all merely as skilled as any average Boxer Baki has fought. And I will debate you on that, if necessary.

 

[Sir_Ovens]

Yu isn't as skilled as you think he is. A lot of his feats rely on reactions and speed. Yu 90% of the time blitzes his opponents. Other than that he's using just boxing techniques.

 

[azontr]

Yu isn't as skilled as you think he is.

Yeah, he is.

A lot of his feats rely on reactions and speed.

No, they don't.

Yu 90% of the time blitzes his opponents.

Which has no bearing on his skill.

Other than that he's using just boxing techniques.

Boxing techniques infinitely better than people who've spent their entire lives perfecting their Boxing skill to the point even world-class Boxing coach's acknowledge their basically perfect in all aspects...?

I am beginning to doubt you have read a single chapter of The Boxer, Ovens.

 

[Sir_Ovens]

Boxing techniques infinitely better than people who've spent their entire lives perfecting their Boxing skill to the point even world-class Boxing coach's acknowledge their basically perfect in all aspects...?

This is an exaggeration? The Boxer is pretty grounded in its portrayal of boxing as a sport. Besides Jean moving faster than a bullet, the techniques are mostly applied boxing techniques used in the real world.

Baki on the other hand is absolutely fantastical in its portrayal of martial arts, with people capable of grabbing onto blood vessels just by cutting flesh with their fingers.

 

[azontr]

This is an exaggeration?

And you CAN prove this is an exaggeration, yes? With actual proof and not just words, yes?

You have failed to provide even a modicum of evidence, meanwhile all of Yu's feats are detailed expertly on his profile.

 

[DaReaperMan]

This is an exaggeration? The Boxer is pretty grounded in its portrayal of boxing as a sport. Besides Jean moving faster than a bullet, the techniques are mostly applied boxing techniques used in the real world.

So you haven't actually read the boxer you ******* skimmed it. I've only gone through like a quarter of it and I know how you're portraying the skill is bullshit.

Also Azontr asked for the skill feats of the boxers Baki has fought, and you've provided 0 so far.

 

[Epiccheev]

Even if you took away Yu's "seeing everything in slow motion" mental power. He still has:

• Boxing technique said to be unlike any other ever seen before in the world wich includes guys like Jean Pierre who are obsessed with perfecting it and can feel every cell of his body through meditation and goes as far as practicing every minuscule step of a jab for hours, and Yuto Takeda's technical mastery that comes from practicing the same movements over and over again to make up for his lack of vocation by following standardized movement patterns with almost zero delay.
• On top of that, his technique was so good from the get go that K, arguably best boxing coach in the world decided he had nothing to teach him and forbid him from watching other boxers fight just for the chance he might end up borrowing something from them subconsciously.
• Genius ability that let him copy Albino Bakugou's perfect flow of momentum technique through instinct. Said technique wich he saw once and was used to escape from a situation where he was blinded by the lights , mid slipping had a muscle cramp at the worst moment, and was about to get hit by an uppercut due to Viktor's supernatural luck.
• Nerves of steel that let him fight against opponents that can kill him with 1 punch without any sort of unecessary mental/physical strain.
• Should be comparable to J who has absolutely zero habits when fighting wich made Santorino brothers baffled as that should be humanly impossible.

Dude is shown many times to be a genius among genius in pretty much every possible aspect of fighting. ( and i didn't mention his A.pred because it should indeed be helped a lot by his ability to see in slow mo. )

 

[azontr]

And Ovens read The Boxer. Yeah, right.

 

[DaReaperMan]

And Ovens read The Boxer. Yeah, right.

Ovens read "The Jabber", what are you on?

 

[The_man_with_the_Midas_touch]

What types of Boxers has Baki fought, to begin with? Like, who specifically, and what are their skill feats exactly?

In the Max Tournament to New Grappler Baki key, the only two relevant boxers I can think of are.

Yuri Chakovsky. Whose best feat iirc, is being a world champion across six weight divisions.

and

Mohammad Alai Jr. Who in turn was recognized as skilled by the likes of Orochi Doppo.

Someone more knowledgeable about skills can extrapolate from there, not the best person for skill scaling.

 

[azontr]

In the Max Tournament to New Grappler Baki key, the only two relevant boxers I can think of are.

Yuri Chakovsky. Whose best feat iirc, is being a world champion across six weight divisions.

and

Mohammad Alai Jr. Who in turn was recognized as skilled by the likes of Orochi Doppo.

Someone more knowledgeable about skills can extrapolate from there, not the best person for skill scaling.

These seem very lackluster.

For the first part, Yu is, by this point, a World Champion across EVERY weight division, and is stated multiple times to be the best Boxer ever.

And, for the second part, I'd like to ask how skilled is Doppo? My only knowledge of him comes very briefly from the various anime which I haven't even completed.

 

[Sir_Ovens]

Yu when Baki puts him in a rear neck choke. (There are 0 boxing techniques that would counter this)

There is a reason mixed martial arts is considered a more deadly martial arts than traditional martial arts and Baki can copy and use techniques he's seen performed once. Yu being limited to a single form of combat puts him at a disadvantage against someone who not only knows more techniques than just boxing, but also mastered those techniques.

 

[azontr]

Yu when Baki puts him in a rear neck choke. (There are 0 boxing techniques that would counter this)

There is a reason mixed martial arts is considered a more deadly martial arts than traditional martial arts and Baki can copy and use techniques he's seen performed once. Yu being limited to a single form of combat puts him at a disadvantage against someone who not only knows more techniques than just boxing, but also mastered those techniques.

Yu could... just... get out of the way...?

He sees Baki in slow motion, he has time to react to any and all movements.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Yu when Baki puts him in a rear neck choke. (There are 0 boxing techniques that would counter this)

There is a reason mixed martial arts is considered a more deadly martial arts than traditional martial arts and Baki can copy and use techniques he's seen performed once. Yu being limited to a single form of combat puts him at a disadvantage against someone who not only knows more techniques than just boxing, but also mastered those techniques.

Okay so what stops Yu from going "I can do it too!" By literally copying Baki's ass?

He's fully capable. Plus what Azontr said

 

[azontr]

Okay so what stops Yu from going "I can do it too!" By literally copying Baki's ass?

Yu isn't gonna copy that in-character. He's just gonna dodge and punch.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Yu isn't gonna copy that in-character. He's just gonna dodge and punch.

True, but he can

 

[azontr]

True, but he can

And he's not going to, hence it's irrelevant.

 

[Sir_Ovens]

I'm starting to think you guys didn't even read Baki's page considering the scans on there would put him at least on par with Yu.

 

[azontr]

I frankly don't care what you think I did or didn't read, Ovens. As I never even asserted Baki was not skilled; He is obviously a very skilled, well-rounded fighter.

I in fact never even said Yu was more skilled than him to begin with.

 

[Sir_Ovens]

???

I'm sorry, then why did you assume Yu would win in this regard?

 

[azontr]

.....

I... I never said... Yu outskilled Baki. I think he does, but I never said he did.

The entire point of this argument was against the notion that Yu was not skilled to begin with, not that he was more skilled than Baki, starting with you insinuating that Baki "vastly outskilled" Yu.

 

[Blackcurrant91]

I really dislike how you guys treat his 'perceives time at a different speed' thing, this is literally just reaction speed without context. As someone who hasn't read the Boxer it just seems like flowery language to describe someone who is way faster then they are without any context for how it applies in a fight. Doesn't Yu eventually fight against people who can react to him? Do they just learn how to fight against this Handicap? do they have the same ability?

Otherwise this is a massive stomp for Yu.

 

[azontr]

I really dislike how you guys treat his 'perceives time at a different speed' thing, this is literally just reaction speed without context. As someone who hasn't read the Boxer it just seems like flowery language to describe someone who is way faster then they are without any context for how it applies in a fight. Doesn't Yu eventually fight against people who can react to him? Do they just learn how to fight against this Handicap? do they have the same ability?

Otherwise this is a massive stomp for Yu.

Dumb this down for me because this is just a Mish Mash of words that barely seems like an actual complaint.

 

[LordGinSama]

There is a reason mixed martial arts is considered a more deadly martial arts than traditional martial arts

This isn't necessarily true, first of all MMA can mean a plethora styles (Most of which is literally founded upon boxing as a basis.), secondly it matters more so the individual in question.

 

[azontr]

I've realized we've gone this entire match talking about Yu but not about what Baki will even start with when facing him

 

[Blackcurrant91]

Baki tends to open with alot of leg / head kicks in this key from what I can tell. He generally only goes for grabs/grapples as a last resort.

For reference, in the Maxim Tournament. Iron Michael who was the Heavy Weight champ of the world almost lost to a dude with no formal training because he was using dirty tactics. 'World Champions' of individual styles are like fodder tier in Baki