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The bleach verse vs the Dragon ball verse

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But the thing is there wouldn't be any possible future where he survives a Low 2-C attack. Yhwach's fate manip is centered around whats actually possible to happen in the future and chooses the best future to benefit himself. No matter what future he see's, the results would be the same in all of them. Now if Goku was only Rel+ in speed, your point would probably be more acceptable since if Yhwach can outspeed the opponent, then there exists a possible future that he can "survive" by just dodging. But a MFTL+ kinda nopes that to oblivion.

Ichigo is one thing. The difference between Yhwach and even a 5-A, let alone a Low 2-C, is something else entirely.
 
ProfessorKukui4Life said:
Actually no. There's a very big issue with this argument.

Yhwach coming back from death with the Almighty is explicitly done via rewriting the result of what happened just before (like getting bisected by Getsuga Tensho and rewriting that so Yhwach never got killed by it). Rewriting his death is essentially just rewritting what happened to kill him in the first place. That means, for Yhwach to rewrite his death against one of Goku's attacks, your arguing that Yhwach can rewrite the result of a Low 2-C killing him with power that is infinitely beyond the scope of his own. Which reeks of NLF.
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That's literally not how the Almighty works in any shape or way.

It doesn't rewrite results, like where did you even think of that? Yhwach never says results.

The Almighty works by transforming, rewriting and manipulating futures. Futures, not results, the future.

If Goku hits Yhwach with a Low 2-C attack, Yhwach will just rewrite that future afterwards or switch that future to one where Yhwach wasn't hit.
 
I find it iffy to say that there isn't a single future out of nigh infinite possibilities where he doesn't survive. Either by sheer luck, Goku holding back (cause it's goku he doesn't kill) or anything like that. Even if we assume the hit will kill him if it lands, to say it always lands in a way that will kill him is assuming a lot. And I'm thinking back to Yhwach's fights, he does manage to survive some pretty crazy shit. Such as being turned into an ant. There should logically be no way an ant could kill Ichibei, but he found a way. And before you say it, the kanji only broke off of Yhwach's body after he blew a hole through Ichibei, meaning he had ant power when he did it.
 
IMadeThisOn8-1-2017 said:
That's literally not how the Almighty works in any shape or way.

It doesn't rewrite results, like where did you even think of that? Yhwach never says results.

The Almighty works by transforming, rewriting and manipulating futures. Futures, not results, the future.
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Him dying by [insert here] is the result of the encounter. Him rewritting his death is rewritting said result.
 
You know how coming up with Diavolo deaths and the fact that they're technically canon due to infinite loop is a meme? Why isn't Yhwach doing that with futures a meme? ovo
 
Amlad22 said:
I find it iffy to say that there isn't a single future out of nigh infinite possibilities where he doesn't survive. Either by sheer luck, Goku holding back (cause it's goku he doesn't kill) or anything like that. Even if we assume the hit will kill him if it lands, to say it always lands in a way that will kill him is assuming a lot. And I'm thinking back to Yhwach's fights, he does manage to survive some pretty crazy shit. Such as being turned into an ant. There should logically be no way an ant could kill Ichibei, but he found a way. And before you say it, the kanji only broke off of Yhwach's body after he blew a hole through Ichibei, meaning he had ant power when he did it.
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Interesting. Well, factoring in in-character limitations like Goku holding back or whatever it is, I guess you can say there'd be some possibilities of Yhwach surviving? I wouldn't disagree with this, but this is something that would be a case by case thing though depending on the opponent.

However, if the opponent is fast enough to blitz Yhwach into oblivion, there isnt any reason why the attack wouldnt always land. You'd have to factor in them holding back or something to argue otherwise, which goes with what I said above.

And did Yhwach rewrite the future when facing Ichibei? I thought he just powernulled Ichimonji, not change the result.
 
It may have just been power null. Hmm so I can see your point of how an AP gap would **** over almighty. However I still think, if we give Yhwach full access to all his powers he should be fine since many of his powers should work just fine against people who blitz him and deal massive damage. Just look at the balance, which takes the damage inflicted on the user and sends it back twice as hard. He could easily take a future where he uses the balance to redirect the damage from whatever he is hit with. Balance also heals any wounds as well. Then after that opening has been made when the opponent is damaged, he can go to a future where he absorbs them or something of that sort.

Basically if we restrict Yhwach to almighty only he loses, but even if we only give him one shift like the balance (which he 1000% has since Jugram is his second half), then I don't see how he can't win. A combination of Almighty, Balance and the flawless absorption of the SK is way too busted.
 
But the thing is there wouldn't be any possible future where he survives a Low 2-C attack.

This argument is very dumb in essence, so what you're saying is that by definition The Avengers should have never won Endgame because not a single one of them could kill him physically at his prime. (minus Thor killing a weakhanos) Sure, Thanos should have won in all infinite possible futures, like the Avengers wouldn't have won in more different timelines, like in Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. where Thanos was stopped before the snap happened.

There's always is gonna be another future where The Avengers won. Doctor Strange just choose the first one he saw as the only one without searching more alternative futures.
 
ProfessorKukui4Life said:
IMadeThisOn8-1-2017 said:
That's literally not how the Almighty works in any shape or way.

It doesn't rewrite results, like where did you even think of that? Yhwach never says results.

The Almighty works by transforming, rewriting and manipulating futures. Futures, not results, the future.
Click to expand...
Him dying by [insert here] is the result of the encounter. Him rewritting his death is rewritting said result.
Click to expand...
He doesn't rewrite the result, he rewrites that future to no longer have happened or to have happened how he wrote it. That, or he can simply transform that future to another one where he is alive.
 
IMadeThisOn8-1-2017 said:
He doesn't rewrite the result, he rewrites that future to no longer have happened or to have happened how he wrote it. That, or he can simply transform that future to another one where he is alive.
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This doesn't debunk a thing I said before. Whether it rewrites the future or changes it doesnt stop the fact that Yhwach is using the Almighty to change the result of the encounter.

Future or not, its still changing a result. Him dying is the result and rewriting his death is rewritting the result too.
 
AppleLord said:
This argument is very dumb in essence, so what you're saying is that by definition The Avengers should have never won Endgame because not a single one of them could kill him physically at his prime. (minus Thor killing a weakhanos) Sure, Thanos should have won in all infinite possible futures, like the Avengers wouldn't have won in more different timelines, like in Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. where Thanos was stopped before the snap happened.

There's always is gonna be another future where The Avengers won. Doctor Strange just choose the first one he saw as the only one without searching more alternative futures.
Click to expand...
I don't know a thing about Avengers or Endgame and I never saw Endgame, so I can't debate this example for not having full context.
 
ProfessorKukui4Life said:
This doesn't debunk a thing I said before. Whether it rewrites the future or changes it doesnt stop the fact that Yhwach is using the Almighty to change the result of the encounter.

Future or not, its still changing a result. Him dying is the result and rewriting his death is rewritting the result too.
Click to expand...
He's changing the future of his death, it doesn't matter if he was hit by a 4-A or Low 2-C attack, the attack doesn't matter, the future of his death is rewritten to where he did not die or switched with another future where he never died.
 
IMadeThisOn8-1-2017 said:
He's changing the future of his death, it doesn't matter if he was hit by a 4-A or Low 2-C attack, the attack doesn't matter, the future of his death is rewritten to where he did not die or switched with another future where he never died.
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But that is exactly the problem here. There wouldnt be a future where he survives a 4-A or Low 2-C attack. Why? Because its not possible for Yhwach to ever survive one in the first place. Period. So what future can he change to when the result is exactly the same?

Rewritting the future is even worse because Yhwach rewritting what happens in the encounter would have to something that is withi his capability of rewritting. And he isn't rewritting the outcome of an attack that is far above what he can handle from killing him.
 
He can still choose a future where he dodges or Goku doesn't go for the kill.

His main problem isn't Goku. The GoDs, Zen O and Gyigas Zamasu are the actual threats to him in this scenario.
 
Thankfully Yhwach only needs his consciousness to revive himself with the Almighty. The state of damage of which he takes because he revives himself through the Almighty and as long as he has his consciousness then he can indeed revive from a 4-A attack. Once we hit low 2-C and such it gets a little difficult to debate on due to higher D stuff however, as far as I'm aware it would still only destroy his body, not his soul or consciousness.
 
The Calaca said:
He can still choose a future where he dodges
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Unless Yhwach can perceive MFTL+ speed all of a sudden, there is no future where he is reacting and dodging to Goku at all.

Picking a future where Goku doesnt go for the kill is a different story though and is debatable.
 
I know that part. I meant before he revived himself, like when Ichigo and Aizen were talking about what happened and thought they killed him before Yhwach gave them the lolnopeimalivesuckers.
 
ProfessorKukui4Life said:
But that is exactly the problem here. There wouldnt be a future where he survives a 4-A or Low 2-C attack. Why? Because its not possible for Yhwach to ever survive one in the first place. Period. So what future can he change to when the result is exactly the same?

Rewritting the future is even worse because Yhwach rewritting what happens in the encounter would have to something that is withi his capability of rewritting. And he isn't rewritting the outcome of an attack that is far above what he can handle from killing him.
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Yhwach's rewriting isn't limited to what is within his capabilities of rewriting.

Reminder, he literally rewrote the future where he was dead, when he was dead, to be alive.

While dead and dead in the future, he still rewrote it. That's a feat that disproves your theory.

Yhwach rewriting a future where he got punched by Low 2-C Goku is within his capabilities since all he needs to do is rewrite the fact that he was dead so now he is alive. You misunderstand the Almighty.
 
>Reminder, he literally rewrote the future where he was dead, when he was dead, to be alive.

Pretty sure this only applies to his physical body like Prince said above. His consciousness remained, as so said. If im wrong here, manage the evidence better.

>While dead and dead in the future, he still rewrote it. That's a feat that disproves your theory.

See above. Plus, Yhwach doesn't have Type 7 Immortality for nothing after all. Him using the Almighty, while dead, just means he can continue using his powers after he's dead. And "dead" here obviously goes up to an established extent.

>Yhwach rewriting a future where he got punched by Low 2-C Goku is within his capabilities since all he needs to do is rewrite the fact that he was dead so now he is alive.

Yes but what your not seeing here is that in order for Yhwach to even do this, he would need to change the fact that he was killed by a far, far, far stronger power than where he himself is at. And you can't do that unless the power that killed you is within your limits to change.

If Yhwach can't change to a future where he wasn't killed by a Low 2-C attack, why think he can straight up rewrite it himself?
 
Yhwach doesn't have type 7, he's not a zombie.

Also if i'm understand correctly, according to you if Goku punches through Yhwach and he dies. his Almighty will magically stop working?
 
Sigurd Snake in The Eye said:
Yhwach doesn't have type 7, he's not a zombie.
Also if i'm understand correctly, according to you if Goku punches through Yhwach and he dies. his Almighty will magically stop working?
Click to expand...
Check again. He has T7 Immortality in his Soul King Absorbed tab of powers.

"Immortality (Type 7; even after being defeated by Ichigo, Yhwach continued to exist and maintain the three worlds just by existing)"
 
The novel and ending made it very clear that Yhwach isn't dead, he isn't alive either. He's current state of being is similar to that of Alucard after absorbing Schrodinger.
 
so how do u beat this man lmao, i know u can mind/sense manip him before he uses the almighty, but the way this thread is looking if its on you lose or fight him to a draw at most
 
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