- 31,574
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- #81
We don't exactly see any of the blades edge-on though.
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The Big Bleach Speed CRT
- Thread starter Damage3245
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Would it be fairer to assume 1 millimeter? Is that acceptable?
CloudStrife00T
They/Them- 313
- 66
because all of ichigo's swing are in a circular motion. If you pause or slowdown the video you can see it. Rather than straight lines they are circular swings. In that case 120 would be the safest assumption and 140 would would be the normal assumption.
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Is that you're only issue with it then?
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Also curious what others think about this, if this is the norm I'll apply it.
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- Thread starter
- #86
No - I'm preparing a statement for my issue with the feat/calc. I'm a bit busy at the moment so I'll post it soon.
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Yeah, 120 is more accurate, since are full semi-circular swing, 90 should be too low.
Try to add an end with 120.
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Regarding this isn't the accepted reiatsu crush range for captains like 4km? or am I pulling this out of my ass? Also, Aizen and Yama >>>>>> everyone else there at the moment, so I'd argue that the reiatsu crush range is entirely or majority in part due to Yama and Aizen. The ranges shouldn't sum either, because if Yama walks in with a range of 22km and Soifon has a range of 4km (numbers for the example bare with me) then would it not be that the max range is still 22km (rather than 26 if we were adding) and that the inner 4km range just has denser/deadlier reiatsu crush.
Shunsui Soul Society Speed Calc
vsbattles.fandom.com
Ok, I'm going to wait to see what Damage says about his other issues with the calc, before I make any changes. It would increase the final values by 1.33x if you're curious tho.
CloudStrife00T
They/Them- 313
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btw I have no idea how the calculation works but when ichigo slashes the petals he slashes the petals that are behind him. I feel like this calc just calculates ichigo slashing the 100 million petals if they were in from of him rather than in all directions so the distance covered is much less.
Idk, I might just be speaking nonsense. Anyway, I'll just wait for damage to comment since it would be no use working on it so much if it gets rejected.
Idk, I might just be speaking nonsense. Anyway, I'll just wait for damage to comment since it would be no use working on it so much if it gets rejected.
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I think you're right about that.
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I agree with this, additional Reitasu isn't cumulative to the Reiatsu's distance. One's Reiatsu doesn't add to someone else's range.
A Shinigami's Reiatsu surrounds their body and expands outwards. The only thing that multiple high Reitasu levels could possibly do is make the area where they are fighting extremely dense with Reiatsu, but it shouldn't expand the range of the Reiatsu.
If someone is being affected by Reitasu an "x" distance away, then that means that at least one of the persons who is fighting has Reitasu that goes out that far.
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That's right, so 22km is the minimun I guess.
Regarding the calc, I would assume average cherry blossom petal which is 1mm, even do the result would decrease.
But I would Assume 120 to 180 degree movements since the swing are semi-circular, and he also hit petals likely behind him.
- 31,574
- 28,025
- Thread starter
- #95
> I agree with this, additional Reitasu isn't cumulative to the Reiatsu's distance. One's Reiatsu doesn't add to someone else's range. A Shinigami's Reiatsu surrounds their body and expands outwards. The only thing that multiple high Reitasu levels could possibly do is make the area where they are fighting extremely dense with Reiatsu, but it shouldn't expand the range of the Reiatsu.
What makes you say that?
From my reading of the page, the fact that the ordinary Hollows are cowering and how some of them are even being damaged and killed from a distance, is from the passive effects of gathering a large number of extremely powerful fighters together.
The story doesn't focus on any one particular fighter there being responsible for the effects; it looks like it is supposed to be a product of their cumulative Reiatsu.
What makes you say that?
From my reading of the page, the fact that the ordinary Hollows are cowering and how some of them are even being damaged and killed from a distance, is from the passive effects of gathering a large number of extremely powerful fighters together.
The story doesn't focus on any one particular fighter there being responsible for the effects; it looks like it is supposed to be a product of their cumulative Reiatsu.
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Wasn't there a calc for Ichigo dodging the Senbonzakura blade right in front of his face like Toshiro did dodging Shinsou?
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Someone's reiatsu crush range is a product of their reiatsu alone.
Regarding the "large number of extremely powerful fighters" Yama carries the vast majority of the Gotei 13's power by himself and then same for Aizen with the Espada army. So it's more like Yama and Aizen and company.
The shot that looks back up at everyone just shows scale/distance, it's so far away that it neither focuses on the group or individual.
Regardless why would the reiatsu crush range be cumulative. If that were the case shouldn't the entirety of Seireitei be a massively dangerous zone. When reiatsu crush is flexed throughout the entire series it is never displayed as cumulative. Plus we already know Yamamoto has reiatsu capable of effecting things devastingly on a planetary scale in Bankai, so it is still likely that if in Bankai he is >>>>>> everyone before him in Bankai for reiatsu range, then that would be applicable in base.
A character's reiatsu crush range is a product of solely themselves. There's no reason to assume it's cumulative.
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- #98
Regarding the "Ichigo deflects Byakuya's Bankai" feat. The biggest issue with is assuming that Ichigo had to hit every single one of Byakuya's blades physically, all 100 million of them, based on him deflecting Byakuya's Bankai.
Byakuya's statement of Ichigo deflecting his Bankai would still be true even if Ichigo didn't physically hit each one. The shockwaves from his sword swings would clear out large swaths of them and repel them back; petals that Ichigo hit would also fly back into the ones still heading his way.
I've spoken to DDM, Jvando and Matthew Shchroeder who agree with this issue regarding the feat.
Byakuya's statement of Ichigo deflecting his Bankai would still be true even if Ichigo didn't physically hit each one. The shockwaves from his sword swings would clear out large swaths of them and repel them back; petals that Ichigo hit would also fly back into the ones still heading his way.
I've spoken to DDM, Jvando and Matthew Shchroeder who agree with this issue regarding the feat.
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The problem with that is this:
Byakuya states "he swatted away them all" and no air pressure is displayed on panel.
Swatted would mean Ichigo's blade came into contact with all of Senbonzakura's petals.
When you swat a fly it doesn't mean you knocked the fly away with air pressure, it means you physically hit the fly. (https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/swat)
The simplest conclusion from the feat and Byakuya's statement is that Ichigo hit all of Senbonzakura's petals with Tensa Zangetsu. You'd have to prove that air pressure was used to knock away the petals, and we don't see any pressure waves in the manga. To say Ichigo "maybe" used air pressure and shockwaves requires more assumptions.
Just to display that Kubo visually shows us when air pressure is involved here's images from the Ginjo fight:
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CloudStrife00T
They/Them- 313
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are there shockwaves that are not visible and are contained just enough to hit the petals and nothing more ? so, like ichigo can mentally control shockwaves ?
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What? no, why would we assume there are invisible shockwaves? Kubo displays when characters use air pressure, look at the Ginjo vs Ichigo fight.
CloudStrife00T
They/Them- 313
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but isn't that what damage is suggesting that ichigo's swing are creating invisible shockwave that are actually attacking the petals and ichigo only swung his sword only a few times ?
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I refuted that in my previous post. That would be an assumption not backed by what we see in the panel nor by what Byakuya says.
CloudStrife00T
They/Them- 313
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Oh, right missed that. 
Great, scared me for a second. I thought another calc would be rejected.
Great, scared me for a second. I thought another calc would be rejected.
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- #105
I'm saying that it is a lot more reasonable that Ichigo swung his sword less than tens of thousands of times in a split-second - and that the force from his strikes didn't just stop at hitting a few blades at a time, but he was knocking back huge numbers of them with each swing of his sword.
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Why is that a lot more reasonable? "a lot more reasonable" is your headcanon and not at all refutation.
Byakuya says "impossible he swatted them all away" as if to draw attention to the fact that Ichigo hit every petal.
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- No visual indication or mention of shockwaves
- Ichigo overpowering Byakuya's Bankai with accidental shockwaves from him swinging his sword is also a pretty big leap
- It's a clear intent on Kubo's behalf to showcase Ichigo's speed by cutting them all, him creating unseen shockwaves to repel them is completely baseless and contradictory to the narrative.
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Because the range and strength of Reiatsu are dependent on a person's own Reiatsu.
Unless that the other persons are being absorbed, or the fighters are standing at the fringe edges of their Reiatsu (I.E. A 8KM Reiatsu is only just touching the size of a 5KM sized Reiatsu, would make it 13KM total for instance), then it wouldn't increase the size and length of their "collective" Reiatsu.
Think of it as a painting.
Different Reiatsu being indicative of different colors on a canvas, the Reiatsu's would overlap in the same space making that shared space denser, in my analogy, the colors on a painting would overlap, making the portrait in that space denser and darker with different colors, but it doesn't combine the total size of all the colors, or everyone's Reiatsu. That doesn't make sense.
If you interpret the scene as the collective efforts of numerous captains being in the area that is the reason for why Hollows are being killed, then that means that each captain has Reiatsu that goes that far, and their combine energies are making the total area dense enough that it capable of passively killing hollows from that distance. Not that their Reiatsu's are somehow merging into one large collective one as if they were fusing into one person or something. That just makes every captain there has 22KM range with Reiatsu.
CloudStrife00T
They/Them- 313
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@Damage3245 - You sound like you are dismissing a calc or coming up with theories to fit what you think characters speed should be rather than what it is ? You sure you want to go forward with a mindset like that ?
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- #111
I don't really care what I sound like. I've spoken about this topic with three other staff members who have agreed with me after looking at the feat and the calc.
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Dismissing the claims at your motives. You have yet to refute any of our points, meanwhile we have provided plenty refutation for your "shockwave" argument.
You ignore the points we make against you, only commenting when someone attacks your motives.
Also, x, y, and z agreeing with you is not an argument. Especially when your claim is refuted thoroughly by multiple people.
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I can only deal with a certain number of posts at a time. I'm jumping in and out of this thread when I can.
> Byakuya says "impossible he swatted them all away" as if to draw attention to the fact that Ichigo hit every petal.
Your calc only makes the assumption of the number of petals that can physically touching Ichigo's blade; ignoring that as he is moving his blade through what is essentially a dense cloud of petals, he will be knocking his sword into more than just what his sword could touch.
Picture it like this; when his sword first strikes the cloud of Senbonzakura, it will go:
Sword -> Layer of petals.
Then as his sword continues moving through the clouds it will go:
Sword -> Layer of petals -> Second layer of petals -> Third layer of petals, etc.
You're assuming that every time he swings his sword through Senbonzakura he is only knocking back as many petals as what can physically touch his sword itself.
The shockwaves are a secondary part of that - I don't mean is creating invisible blasts; but as he knocks back swaths of Senbonzakura petals, they will be flying back through the air and crashing into more petals, and knocking them back, etc. He creates a shockwave within the cloud of petals. That was what I meant.
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Would you like me to post a recalc using cross sections?
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This is one of Ichigo's most famous and blatant speed feats to simply disregard it would be saying that Ichigo's speed is not a great thing when the literal majority of the entire is highlighting Ichigo's speed. Byakuya can mentally control each individual Senbonzakura petal and he directly is saying that Ichigo sliced through them. Not to mention that this feat is replicated more than once by the anime staff, once in a OVA and another more known in the Zanpakutou Arc where Ichigo sliced through Senbonzakura once again. Ichigo's Bankai's entire purpose is to give him raw stats to deny and say it is the result of something else entirely is to be blatantly false and disingenuous.
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The author intent is to draw attention to Ichigo's speed the thing that gets brought up the most is Ichigo's speed and how much he is blitzing Byakuya, they talk about how much Ichigo's strength is brought. In the literal next arc and even further down the story Ichigo's speed is also brought up against even Quilge. To just say it is something else means you would end up inserting a made up statement to suit a headcanon despite the power creep present in the story and Byakuya flat out saying Ichigo sliced up through all of the petal blades.
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- #117
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I will work on that and drop it in here once it's finished.
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Then why bring up a shockwave that is not even implied or drawn or alluded to? To say Ichigo used a shockwave and he didn't actually cut up not even 1/100th of the actual number of blades? Especially when literally in the next scene Ichigo blitzes to right behind Byakuya
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