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The Battle of the Genocide Bosses

Since karma's probably not gonna work here sans would be hitting with only 1 damage per attack, so he would have to land 23000 hits before getting tired and getting hit. I don't think he can last that long with having to dodge so many spear's at once
 
I mean, Undyne the Undying is bassically a reference to the prosces of reaching God-Tier, and Aradia Megido is pseudo-similar in the sence of being supposedly dead then surprise, she is alive.

By the way, KARMA works as soul poison, not by sins.
 
While I do agree that karma doesn't get stronger based on amount of kills (as there's no evidence of this) I believe that it still needs some to work, other wise it being named karma wouldn't make sense
 
Even then Sans' durability negation (which is far better than most monsters) can work without KARMA.
 
Sans definitely negates durability to an extent, soul stuff or not, due to Flowey never being able to get past him. Now, with that said, Sans got tired after dodging 22 knife swings. Undyne can throw out a lot more spears than that in the span of a single attack. I don't know if he'd be able to keep dodging for very long.
 
More than 22. He attacks at the start, for every turn you don't attack, and his 'second phase' involves him attacking with numerous different attacks in a turn
 
He also attacks during your turn and he would have probably kept attacking if it was not because you kill him by surprise.
 
Hmm... I actually can't pick here... I mean, Sans is basically the weakest monster within the underground and Undyne is the Head of the Royal Guards which would mean that she's strong enough to get that position(or probably because there's not much monsters wanting it in the first place).

Anyways, For Sans. Even though he's the weakest monster within the underground he's practically a Genius in both science and tactics. Not only that he also has a lot of attacks or abilities that he can use like his Gaster Blasters, Bones, Soul Manipulation and Teleportation which would make him a formidable fighter within the underground. But that's the problem he is literally the weakest monster withing the Underground(with all his Stat being 1) though he has tactics and the arms/magic/weaponry with him. He is quite weak to the point that during his fight with Chara he relies more on the damage he can do to Chara from her Lv(Level of Violence) by literally increasing the number of attacks he could give Chara, increasing the damage KARMA does to her soul by the second. Though yes, he dodges most of Chara's attacks but it doesn't matter all that much here(probably) because the speed is equalized.

Undyne on the other hand. Even though she died with just 1-hit from Chara only because of her protecting the Monster Kid and literally showing her back to Chara. She has only has her spears, armor and soul manipulation as both weapons and protection. None of it matters though as she is very proficient with using spears and that she has a huge resistance on soul magic making her very hard to be fought by people who use them mostly. Not only that but she's most likely faster, stronger and has way more stamina than Sans ever could with a Attack Stat of 50, a Def Stat of 20 and an HP Stat of 1500 and that's just the normal stat she has before being Undying, which might be due to Asgore teaching her when she was young. Her Undying Stats are all 99 like Chara after she obtains Determination. That's also a problem as Monsters with determination simply melts and turns into Amalgamates and Amalgamates can't ever die. But Undyne did as she was already dying when she gained her Determination meaning once she melts she'll slowly start dying. And even if she does turn into one she'll slowly lose her rationality bit by bit and start attacking like a wild animal. Not like that matters all too much(maybe it does) but Undyne also can't be considered intelligent as Sans or even considered a Genius. That doesn't mean she's dumb though. Just overly focused at what her objective is or whatever she puts her mind into.

Now, the problem here is this: Even though Undyne gets to be near invincible to Sans because of her stats when she's Undying she'll most likely slowly melt the longer the fight continues or she'll start melting once she slowly lose sight of her objective. Though, this may just be theory of mine but I believe that Monsters that gains Determination doesn't actually have a long time to stay sane or stay in whatever form their currently have control of and slowly melt from the inside out and form themselves into Amalgamates. But Undyne was already dying and turning to dust when she gained her determination that held her up together long enough to buy time for other monsters to evacuate the area. And we also don't see much of what would happen if the fight does ensue for a long time. But I think it's possible as Undyne slowly speed up her attacks as if rushing. Anyways, Yeah... so Undyne the Undying can possibly die and melt if the fight between the two becomes a long one but... Sans is a very weak monster compared to the entirety of the underground. Though he does have his magics or arms to at least stall long enough for Undyne to melt if he have any knowledge of them, most likely as he is friends with Alphys and has probably been everywhere within the Underground, he just doesn't have the stamina for such fight. He may be a Genius in Tactics and Science but he's not actually fit to do tactics or things for a long time, as seen in the Genocide route when he gets tired during turn 22. Not only that but just one tiny hit from Undyne can kill Sans. Yes, he might be able to dodge her attacks or teleport himself somewhere and just wait it out. But he can't as like I've said, Undyne can have a one track mind which, if she did slowly lose her reasoning, will be the only thing she'll be holding onto so she'll most likely go and chase him to hell if she can. Added to the fact that Undyne also has Soul Manipulation that Holds the target into place and Sans having Minor Resistance to Soul Manipulation he'll be stuck into place, though, to be honest, I think that he can just telelport himself instantaneously to some other place. No I don't mean something like him being stuck into place means that him being unable to move but him flickering in and out of place via teleportation.

Nonetheless, in the end, this'll probably a battle of luck of being hit first or stalled as its ending. Then again, even I'm not sure with what I said.
 
Don't misunderstand. Sans is always a glasscanon but he can defeat his enemies due to his abilities. But Undine is stronger, tougher and more skilled than him. She'll kill him at the moment he gets tired and that'll be faster than Sans beating UTU.
 
Edited

...Calaca Vs

Yes, Sans can be considered a glasscannon. But only considered one when facing Human Opponents. Or Opponents that has a high level of violence. So... In a monster's perspective(Ones within the underground), which are mostly creatures not attune to violence, Sans can be considered as one very weak monster with stats of 1. Which he states when he fought Chara in the Last Corridor. Also, Sans is a Genius Tactician and Scientist. We don't even know where he got those experiences from but he has them as well as some experience with battle as seen when fighting Chara. Undyne on the other hand, can be considered as the 2nd strongest monster within the underground with her being below and trained by Asgore himself whe she was young. She also fought her way to get her position(not like there's a lot of Monsters willing to take such position) but nonetheless it shows how strong she is compared to other monsters. Though fighting is really all she's probably good at(burned her house while cooking), she has a good sense of danger and reaction time considering who trained her. Though her LV would probably be high(maybe higher than 20 or lower, we don't actually know the base stats of monsters and their growth, not like it matters within the game) she has the instincts and strength to use it which she trained and strenghtened for a very long time. She also have high resistance to a lot of manipulation like Soul Manipulation and Fire. Comparing her to Chara, which has her levels going up in a short time and not being able to hone skills with it. It's like comparing a Serial Killer to a Proffesional Hitman. But considering Chara has timetravel hax which makes her go back to a certain time each death......yeah... we have a timetraveling Serial Killer. Anyways... I'll add some stuff later... gonna read up to things.

Added

==
Side Note: So... I don't know how KARMA works or if we can even use it in this one but I'll just add it cuz it's there in Sans Vs Page. ... Nah... More like, let's consider the things listed in both their Vs Page.

==
Reply: xD

==
Anyways, as how things look or as I probably just listed up. Undyne can be seen as the winner as she got: Regenerationn(just saw that in her vs page and forgot to add. Then again I don't know if it actually means Regenerationn=Regenerationn or Regenerationn from Determination), Better Resistance to Soul Manipulation than Sans(He only has Minor Resistance), Is the 2nd strongest monster within the underground(also 2nd strongest enemy in Genocide route that is without the hax as other monsters have except for Determination) and has better experience in fights as she was trained by Asgore when she was young. In her Undying mode, she also gained Determination, something we don't have much information on but means to persist death in the Undertale Wiki,the only thing that kept her from fading, and increased stats of a lvl 20 Chara.

While Sans... 1 point stats, Genius Tactician & Scientist, Gaster Blaster, Bones, Weakest monster... and Knowledge of Alternate Timelines... Yep, I got no basis on this except for the info from the His Vs Page and my own thoughts, since looking at it from this angle it's very unfair for Sans the Weakest Monster in the Underground to be facing against Undyne the Undying, the Genocide boss stronger than Asgore. I could actually just put Sans KARMA attacks into this one, but after reading what Karma means and what others think of what KARMA means in the game... I've decided against it as it would probably do no more than 1 extra damage unto Undyne(I dunno maybe some Petty Karma Consideration). So then I thought and looked at both pages(not too much cuz I think I'm missing something here) and then focused on Sans having knowledge of Alternate Timelines. No, I'm not talking about the other Au's like Underfell, DustTale or anything... that'll just be... Anyways, I'm talking about the alternate timelines within the Undertale game. Timelines where there's a Pacifist Ending, Neutral Ending and Genocide Ending. Cuz really, ever wonder as to why Sans, the weakest monster within the Underground became good at combat? I mean, yeah, it might be a bit farfetched but he was able to fight and/or stall Chara for a very long time and make her do the process over and over again, though KARMA might've been one of the reason this comes to play not that it matters much as he was able to last quite longer than monsters more stronger than him(but still die just as quick i.e. single slash), this shows that Sans probably gained or learned things within those timelines adding them into his attacks and strategy making him more better in combat. Not only that but I think this also add up on different Genocide Routes in Different Timelines which makes him able to evade attacks made by Chara(I'll talk more about this theory if someone actually opens one or gives me a link to one already existing. Or just give me a link to one that's already closed. I'd like to read more on that). In the end, this doesn't actually gives him much fire power against Undyne as all it gives him is some more tricks he could use against her... that's all.

I can't actually think of a way for Sans to win against Undyne in a Monster vs Monster battle as he, like I've said is Considered the Weakest Monster in the Underground. Although knowledge from alternate timelines would give him a better chance towards other monsters even Normal Undyne but against Undyne the Undying? Yeah... I don't think this'll work out at all.

So yeah... as much as I love Sans... I'm voting Undyne.

=
Reply:

Not debunking you but if you want me to try just tell me. And give me a few days.

=
 
Seriously guys, sans has no way to win.

Sanses attacks are too weake to properly harm undyne, even if he ignores dura, and she could litiraly sit down, tank them, and then danmaku sans while his sleeping
 
You are ignoring that Sans can teleport her attacks back at her, use cheap tactics and attack her when she is busy attacking him (You know, when he puts bones in the menu).
 
Because he has never shown the ability to do that, lacks the stamina for it, and the latter would barely affect her.
 
Also, Sans' page does not really explain how KARMA works. Basically, the more you are in contact with Sans' attacks, the more KARMA you will accumulate, and the more KARMA you have, the faster your HP will drain.
 
I played the game.

I know how it works, and it still won't help here. Especialy as it would take dozens of minutes before Karma could kill her.
 
Well, Sans' battle is really fast paced so sometimes people do not play attention at how KARMA works, I was just pointing it out.
 
Uhh... what?

We don't even know how KARMA works to begin with and I think that it doesn't just suddenly inflict damage unto the enemy Sans pick. There's gotta be a reason for it to work as Sans used every Loophole he could find/use against his battle with Chara and KARMA is one of the things that is quite unnatural and questionable ability that he has. Because if KARMA works on everybody within Undertale... then wouldn't Sans be considered the Strongest Monster in the Underground or even One of the Strongest within it not... the Weakest?

Added=
I also agree withRicsi-viragosi on all accounts.
 
No.

Because he is still the weakest stat wise, and because nearly any monster could tank it for much longer due to their resistance
 
Hmm... I apparantly missed that. I, more or less, based the things I've said on Wiki thingies.

Anyways, I don't understand what it says but I'll reply to something once I do. Maybe I'll do so Tommorow.
 
Sans is overrated af ; You forgot Undyne has determnation and the same frisk's stats ; And she should hit sans form behind ; I say Undyne via Reset after many attemtps
 
Ricsi-viragosi said:
I feel that saying she can reset is unbased.
Sure, she ehas DT, but we don't know if its enough to reset.
Click to expand...
Flowey said that everyone who has DT can reset, only if appears someone who has DT stronger than yours you can't reset anymore


Undyne wasn't able to reset just because Frisk's DT was much stronger than hers
 
Ok, I've been meaning to ask this, but how and why do you do that font thingy @Rodri

Also for the record, I don't think Undyne the Undying is going to be reloading anytime soon, and even if she could it's not on her profile.
 
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