The Amazing Digital Circus General Discussion Thread [Spoilers]

[Imaginym]

Ah, yeah but where is the statements saying that he didn't create them?

That is asking for proof of a negative, like asking us to prove that there aren't purple-polka-dotted insects in real life, or to prove that there's a small teapot orbiting the sun.

We literally have the kind of fallacy you just used as 1 of the kinds on our fallacies page:

Fallacies

One thing to keep in mind, is that even if someone is using a fallacy, it does not necessarily mean that their argument is not true. It merely means that they are attempting to argue for it improperly. These are the examples that apply to this wiki, with the original list written by Endless...

vsbattles.fandom.com

3. Burden of proof fallacy​

This is when someone attempts to make someone else prove a claim when the burden of proof is really on them to prove it. The burden of proof is always on the positive claim, and the person who makes the claim.

Example:

"Goku is faster than light speed because you can't prove he's not!"

In this case, the person in the example makes a claim (Goku is FTL), and without providing evidence for it himself, he asks his opponent to prove him wrong. In reality, the person who made that claim would be the one required to prove it.


Outdated example aside, you can see the issue.
The burden of proof is for you to to prove he DID create them, not for others to prove he didn't, as that he did create is the positive claim, & thus the one which requires evidence.

This is not s video game, is meant to be a cartoon show.

It is meant to imitate a video game! You know that!
IIRC, it's stated to be modeled on old computer video games aesthetically.
The intro shows us at the title screen before the camera moves into the world, at which point the graphical fidelity/quality increases, as though entering a video game; It's less pixelated because the audience is now truly in what was depicted, rather than just viewing a simulation of that world via computer.

& in the intro, we see a brightly lit monitor, after a zoom out from the Void, indicating that the series depicts something running on a computer. Like a video game.
We also see & hear reloading during the part of the intro with the spinning ring of floating objects. That wouldn't happen in-universe if this was something prerecorded like a film.

is not even a stretch, because he created that thing fot Zooble

Just because someone creates something that can spawn an infinite amount of times doesn't mean they created an infinite mass.

If there's a 5 kg bag that can you can shake for gold coins & you can do that infinite time, the bag doesn't weigh infinite mass, nor do we say there are an infinite quantity of coins present. At best, you could make a countably infinite amount of coins, but that requires infinite time.

The same is true of a bag of any other weight, including unspecified, & this is analogous to the Zooble Box.

 

[Alexander]

That is asking for proof of a negative, like asking us to prove that there aren't purple-polka-dotted insects in real life, or to prove that there's a small teapot orbiting the sun.

We literally have the kind of fallacy you just used as 1 of the kinds on our fallacies page:

Fallacies

One thing to keep in mind, is that even if someone is using a fallacy, it does not necessarily mean that their argument is not true. It merely means that they are attempting to argue for it improperly. These are the examples that apply to this wiki, with the original list written by Endless...

vsbattles.fandom.com

3. Burden of proof fallacy​

This is when someone attempts to make someone else prove a claim when the burden of proof is really on them to prove it. The burden of proof is always on the positive claim, and the person who makes the claim.

Example:

"Goku is faster than light speed because you can't prove he's not!"

In this case, the person in the example makes a claim (Goku is FTL), and without providing evidence for it himself, he asks his opponent to prove him wrong. In reality, the person who made that claim would be the one required to prove it.


Outdated example aside, you can see the issue.
The burden of proof is for you to to prove he DID create them, not for others to prove he didn't, as that he did create is the positive claim, & thus the one which requires evidence.

1.he says himself he made this adventures, who else would be?Bubble???

It is meant to imitate a video game! You know that!
IIRC, it's stated to be modeled on old computer video games aesthetically.
The intro shows us at the title screen before the camera moves into the world, at which point the graphical fidelity/quality increases, as though entering a video game; It's less pixelated because the audience is now truly in what was depicted, rather than just viewing a simulation of that world via computer.

& in the intro, we see a brightly lit monitor, after a zoom out from the Void, indicating that the series depicts something running on a computer. Like a video game.
We also see & hear reloading during the part of the intro with the spinning ring of floating objects. That wouldn't happen in-universe if this was something prerecorded like a film.

Ah fair point

Just because someone creates something that can spawn an infinite amount of times doesn't mean they created an infinite mass.

If there's a 5 kg bag that can you can shake for gold coins & you can do that infinite time, the bag doesn't weigh infinite mass, nor do we say there are an infinite quantity of coins present. At best, you could make a countably infinite amount of coins, but that requires infinite time.

The same is true of a bag of any other weight, including unspecified, & this is analogous to the Zooble Box.

it never says it spawns them, it has them already by default

 

[Imaginym]

1.he says himself he made this adventures, who else would be?Bubble???

Now you're taking my words out of context. Quoting myself for context:
The concern is the words.
What was meant by the creator of the show when they said "has no end".
& such phrasing doesn't only apply to armies, its also used for other things. It's reasonable GW was using it in the same way here. "No matter how many parts Zooble pulls out, new ones will appear in their place.".

We don't know for certain that they're inside of it - Nothing has officially confirmed that to be canon, IIRC. We've only seen a headset with no one present.
In theory, if it is extremely advanced technology, they could be simulations of the human mind, copied from the original humans.
Or the minds could be "external" in that they're from a different program Caine can't access.

You say "bigger than it seems", but I've seen shots where the circus seems quite tall, & I doubt that carousel tower was more than a few dozen Pomnis tall.
In theory it could fit in the circus.

Though, I will agree the circus has nonlinear (Is that the word?) structures, like with the exit door. Adventures are connected to by portals, etc.

Caine also gets rid of NPCs that enter the circus because he has difficulty telling NPCs from humans. Reasonably, he wouldn't want to have too much present to keep track of at one time.


The point was we don't know if he made:

A. A box that has a currently infinite quantity of already present Zooble Parts in it.
B. A box that can create Zooble Parts an infinite number of times.

With Caine not wanting to lose track of the humans, hence his delete NPCs on sight stance, he'd probably choose B.
Plus, the case of B aligns with how "has no end" is generally used.

Ah fair point

Thank you very much.

it never says it spawns them, it has them already by default

It never says it doesn't spawn them, either.
& we've only seen a single shot of the box, glowing & rotating.
Logically, Zooble would reach in the box, take 1 or more part(s) out & never find an end to the supply of parts to pick from, because it creates more whenever it runs out.
If there was an actual infinite quantity already present, it'd overflow & flood the circus &/or the box would have infinite mass, among other issues.

We haven't seen proof of either of that there's an already presently infinite supply or that it resupplies whenever parts are taken out, because we haven't seen the box being taken out.

 

[Alexander]

Now you're taking my words out of context. Quoting myself for context:
The concern is the words.
What was meant by the creator of the show when they said "has no end".
& such phrasing doesn't only apply to armies, its also used for other things. It's reasonable GW was using it in the same way here. "No matter how many parts Zooble pulls out, new ones will appear in their place.".

We don't know for certain that they're inside of it - Nothing has officially confirmed that to be canon, IIRC. We've only seen a headset with no one present.
In theory, if it is extremely advanced technology, they could be simulations of the human mind, copied from the original humans.
Or the minds could be "external" in that they're from a different program Caine can't access.

You say "bigger than it seems", but I've seen shots where the circus seems quite tall, & I doubt that carousel tower was more than a few dozen Pomnis tall.
In theory it could fit in the circus.

Though, I will agree the circus has nonlinear (Is that the word?) structures, like with the exit door. Adventures are connected to by portals, etc.

Caine also gets rid of NPCs that enter the circus because he has difficulty telling NPCs from humans. Reasonably, he wouldn't want to have too much present to keep track of at one time.


The point was we don't know if he made:

A. A box that has a currently infinite quantity of already present Zooble Parts in it.
B. A box that can create Zooble Parts an infinite number of times.

With Caine not wanting to lose track of the humans, hence his delete NPCs on sight stance, he'd probably choose B.
Plus, the case of B aligns with how "has no end" is generally used.

The example with Npc is different Because NPC can very much act like real players, and Caine would not be able to tell the difference between real or not real player.

Thank you very much.

It never says it doesn't spawn them, either.
& we've only seen a single shot of the box, glowing & rotating.
Logically, Zooble would reach in the box, take 1 or more part(s) out & never find an end to the supply of parts to pick from, because it creates more whenever it runs out.
If there was an actual infinite quantity already present, it'd overflow & flood the circus &/or the box would have infinite mass, among other issues

We haven't seen proof of either of that there's an already presently infinite supply or that it resupplies whenever parts are taken out, because we haven't seen the box being taken out.

I still i am believing that Caine should get something for creating the box

 

[Imaginym]

The example with Npc is different Because NPC can very much act like real players, and Caine would not be able to tell the difference between real or not real player.


I still i am believing that Caine should get something for creating the box

I think that I understand how you feel, but I don't think we have enough evidence to claim it's a "creating infinite mass" feat.
There's not enough evidence, & I'd say our standards require more.

We haven't seen the box in the same shot as anyone, we haven't seen it being moved, the only info about its quantity of parts is a brief statement by the creator on social media, & we only know that Zooble has used it a lot.
I don't think there's enough information to use it as justification for a rating yet.

 

[Alexander]

I think that I understand how you feel, but I don't think we have enough evidence to claim it's a "creating infinite mass" feat.
There's not enough evidence, & I'd say our standards require more.

We haven't seen the box in the same shot as anyone, we haven't seen it being moved, the only info about its quantity of parts is a brief statement by the creator on social media, & we only know that Zooble has used it a lot.
I don't think there's enough information to use it as justification for a rating yet.

Mierda

 

[Imaginym]

Mierda

You think a single out-of-show statement by the creator, a statement which could be taken at least 2 ways in how its ambiguous about the stuff that determines if it qualifies it as an infinity feat or not, & which is at odds with real world logic combined with a lack of evidence that it defies such real world logic, & which has a lack of feats proving it has infinite mass or such, is sufficient evidence?

In my opinion, it's 1 statement, & a dubious one at that. I don't think it's sufficient.

I am sorry if this stance of mine bothers you. I don't go on this site to make enemies. But if you feel that's sufficient evidence, then I can't agree with you. No offense meant. Sorry.

 

[Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera]

Plus, the creator has been untruthful before, like showing saying the Queen piece had nothing to do with Kinger.

 

[Damage3245]

I can't believe the Zooble box is spurring a serious debate here...

 

[Imaginym]

I can't believe the Zooble box is spurring a serious debate here...

Given context, what makes it so unbelievable, in your opinion, if I may ask, please?

 

[Alexander]

Plus, the creator has been untruthful before, like showing saying the Queen piece had nothing to do with Kinger.

But she is untruthful with certain stuff, in the rest she is being truthful, like with the no ships

 

[Greatsage13th]

hmm

 

[Jinx666]

This is not s video game, is meant to be a cartoon show.

Its a 'cartoon' medium thats based on characters being within a digital world/simulation. A.k.a a Virtual Reality. Keyword Virtual.

is not even a stretch, because he created that thing fot Zooble

It is very much a stretch, you are assuming its some infinite dimension space like the Tardis or smthn, when in reality it makes 0 sense for it to be that way, AND it likely is just able to reload new parts constantly.

I dont take this argument srs but we need to definitely shoot down anything that does, because this verse is already insanely too high as it is (and makes no mention that its all canonically in a digital plane.)

 

[Alexander]

Its a 'cartoon' medium thats based on characters being within a digital world/simulation. A.k.a a Virtual Reality. Keyword Virtual.

Like SAO but more cartoon and is actually good

It is very much a stretch, you are assuming its some infinite dimension space like the Tardis or smthn, when in reality it makes 0 sense for it to be that way, AND it likely is just able to reload new parts constantly.

wait are you saying that reloading is more likely than it already being infinite?

I dont take this argument srs but we need to definitely shoot down anything that does, because this verse is already insanely too high as it is (and makes no mention that its all canonically in a digital plane.)

why is the verse to high a problem? ONLY CAINE IS TO HIGH

 

[BatFellow]

Given context, what makes it so unbelievable, in your opinion, if I may ask, please?

The reason I think it is pretty unbelievable is just that this is a fairly minor thing to get hung up on compared to all the actual juicy stuff we've gotten from the new episode, like a starry night sky which we know Caine created.

BTW, I see no problem with giving Caine a pretty high tier in power because we know nobody scales to him and in the lore of the show it makes sense for him to be the most powerful since the existence of the Circus is dependent on his mental state.

I do think it'd be interesting if we could get some calcs for The Angel, the souls, or for Jax's door smashing feat (since I presume we can take that as the door being smashed by him). Kinger having a shotgun is also cool.

 

[Jinx666]

Like SAO but more cartoon and is actually good

Okay but its still canonically a digital world. and uses a headset. Its a digital game, they're not in a cartoon in-lore

wait are you saying that reloading is more likely than it already being infinite?

Its so much more likely yes. Especially when Caine has shown very limited creation and works within sandboxes overtime, which are not infinite. The only thing that could possibly be considered 'infinite' is the Void, which he didnt create.
It wouldnt make sense to have literally only Zooble's box be infnite

why is the verse to high a problem? ONLY CAINE IS TO HIGH

Cause we should be a bit more genuine when this game canonically takes place in a video game. This wiki aims to be as fair as possible. Tryna give this dude star level for a video-game day-night cycle, acting as if he's made something comparable to a literal star, is just way too far imo

 

[Alexander]

Okay but its still canonically a digital world. and uses a headset. Its a digital game, they're not in a cartoon in-lore

Its so much more likely yes. Especially when Caine has shown very limited creation and works within sandboxes overtime, which are not infinite. The only thing that could possibly be considered 'infinite' is the Void, which he didnt create.

It is more possibly he takes more time in the AI than in actually creating everything else.

It wouldnt make sense to have literally only Zooble's box be infnite

Cause we should be a bit more genuine when this game canonically takes place in a video game. This wiki aims to be as fair as possible. Tryna give this dude star level for a video-game day-night cycle, acting as if he's made something comparable to a literal star, is just way too far imo

except that you are also unresonably trying to make it seem like almost everyone would scale to Caine

 

[James_Plays_4_Games]

Be honest with yourselves, Gooseworx just meant the Zooble Box has hammerspace. How is that not the most likely meaning?

 

[Jinx666]

It is more possibly he takes more time in the AI than in actually creating everything else.

He IS the AI.

except that you are also unresonably trying to make it seem like almost everyone would scale to Caine

No i'm not????

I am completely talking about Caine. I get he's the admin and whatever of this game, but he has not shown anything close to his highball on this wiki

 

[Alexander]

He IS the AI.

But he also creates other AIs, like, GUMMIGO?

No i'm not????

I am completely talking about Caine. I get he's the admin and whatever of this game, but he has not shown anything close to his highball on this wiki

yes... you are

 

[Alexander]

Be honest with yourselves, Gooseworx just meant the Zooble Box has hammerspace. How is that not the most likely meaning?

Is just has Zooble parts

 

[Jinx666]

But he also creates other AIs, like, GUMMIGO?

What does that mean? He is still the AI of this game

yes... you are

Amazing Argument

Caine is the only one rated Star Level when thats just not true if you think he made a comparable fission to a star, the rest of the characters still need a disclaimer they're canonically digital avatars on their profiles (so it would need a revision).

 

[Alexander]

What does that mean? He is still the AI of this game

AI creating other AIs

Amazing Argument

Caine is the only one rated Star Level when thats just not true if you think he made a comparable fission to a star, the rest of the characters still need a disclaimer they're canonically digital avatars on their profiles (so it would need a revision).

We don't even need to do that, BECAUSE WE DIDN'T EVEN SEE THEIR REAL FORM

 

[Jinx666]

We don't even need to do that, BECAUSE WE DIDN'T EVEN SEE THEIR REAL FORM

Even worse lmao.

 

[Alexander]

Even worse lmao.

No

 

[Imaginym]

On another note:

 

[Alexander]

On another note:

Glitch being Glitch

 

[Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera]

So Kinger's gonna stay for a while

 

[Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera]

Honestly, I don't think even a single person in the Circus is anywhere close to Abstracting except Zooble.

 

[Imaginym]

Honestly, I don't think even a single person in the Circus is anywhere close to Abstracting except Zooble.

Honestly, I've been pondering what will happen at the fast food episode.

That's the only source of unaccounted scenes in the trailer/preview, right?

Pomni was kind of the focus for Episode 2, maybe alongside Jax & maybe Ragatha.

Episode 3 put Kinger & Zooble in the spotlight.

That leaves Gangle, & the arguable cases of Ragatha & Jax.

With Caine's anxiety about him not being good at making adventures, & him having made Mildenhall Manor to be "matoor" for Zooble, it makes me wonder if the future adventures will be meant to appeal to the others.

For example, Ragatha likes helping people & is always putting on a smiling, friendly face.
& where is that valuable? Working in customer service!

Hence, there could be conflict where Caine designed the fast food adventure for Ragatha, so she can be friendly & help people, but she might not appreciate it, because the NPCs aren't "real" to her. (Something her & Pomni may not agree on.) Or rather, Ragatha may want to help the other circus members more than NPCs who were invented just to present their engineered problems to be fixed.

& Gangle will probably be meant to benefit from it by making her more able to speak up & interact with others. (Assuming GW just doesn't make her suffer, or not go on the adventure.)

 

[Jimmy.robinson.5099]

FWIW, episode 4 was confirmed to be about Gangle back in that one tweet Gooseworx made.

 

[Greatsage13th]

FWIW, episode 4 was confirmed to be about Gangle back in that one tweet Gooseworx made.

FWIW?

 

[Jimmy.robinson.5099]

FWIW?

For What It's Worth.

 

[Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera]

For What It's Worth.

*From What I Wemember

 

[BatFellow]

Yeah, I do believe it's been confirmed Episode 4 will focus on Gangle, Episode 5 on Ragatha, and Episode 6 on Jax, with the remaining three episodes being a mystery.

 

[BatFellow]

To give a quick revive to this thread, the Digital Circus manga is releasing soon. Since it is an official manga could we take anything from it for potential feats?

 

[Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera]

Depends on if anything new happens in it.

 

[Imaginym]

Seems like a kind of novel take, IMHO.
Thoughts, all?

 

[BatFellow]

It does give off pretty heavy Matrix vibes, the idea that the Circus is using the human minds of those trapped there to improve on its AI as they begin to abstract.

I can imagine Caine is going to be revealed later on as an unwitting pawn in this given that he claims quite stubbornly he doesn't deliberately try to torture the humans; if the religious metaphor tracks, then someone has to be above Caine.

 

[James_Plays_4_Games]

Seems like a kind of novel take, IMHO.
Thoughts, all?

I like that theory overall, and it pointed out a few things I didn't notice when I first watched the third episode.

If the theory is correct that an entity in the Digital Circus is trying to instigate the human minded characters to abstract so it can absorb their intelligences, then I was wrong about Caine being the one who programmed an AI that is fifty-seven times more immersive than the previous one.