Terraria Early-Mid Bosses Upgrades

[DeathstroketheHedgehog]

I've been waiting forever for these new destruction values to be accepted, and now they are.

So I've went out of my way to look through Terraria's materials again and then look for the best explodable material.

Titanium was out of the question since it was explosion-proof, and using the bars is only counter-intuitive to the point that it's supposed to be capable of withstanding the explosion. So I went with the next best thing: Tungsten.

So by replacing the previous values with the Tungsten ones, the Terraria verse starts off at a decent City Block+. Not only is this an upgrade, this also gets rid of the kinetic energy calculations, which can easily become contradictory. The verse can scale up from this until we reach the 5-C tiers, which can be discussed here.

 

[DeathstroketheHedgehog]

Here's my opinion.

The calc is roughly 90% into 8-B. That is really really close to getting to 8-A.

King Slime gets this rating, and Eye of Cthulu should be comparable.

Eater of Worlds scales above, which makes me think the Eater of Worlds should be "At least 8-B, likely 8-A".

Skeletron scales above, so him and the WoF should be a definite 8-A.

The Hardmode bosses could be lowball "8-A" and highball "At least 8-A", since we can't reliably assume the power jumps like with King Slime to Eater of Worlds.

 

[Keeweed]

Using Tungsten makes sense with the scaling since the Terrarian can't even scratch Titanium until he gets a Mythril drill and by that point you can stomp the king slime, who can easily survive the explosives. Also the explosives naturally spawn next to Tungsten ores so it definitely can blow them up with no question.

Actually the power jump between mid game may be more obvious because the Terrarian can't scratch a lot of mid to end game material without getting better equipment. You can't mine Mythril without Cobalt, and you can't mine Chlorophyte without Drax which is powered by the souls of the previous three bosses.

The only reason the Eater of Worlds is above the Eye of Cthulhu is because the Terrarian that can kill the EoC can't mine corrupted blocks while the Eater of Worlds digs straight through it.

Granted that all doesn't matter to much because they would just be 8-A anyways but I think an At least 8-A would be fine for Plantera and above.

 

[The_Calaca]

There's a feat from Duke Fishron that might help drawing a line between Pre and Hardmode bosses.

I have to watch its fight to check it out.

 

[Keeweed]

Are you referring to Fishron summoning fog or the water tornadoes? I doubt the water tornadoes would get good results but the fog might based off some DnD calcs I've seen.

 

[Keeweed]

Ok I just fought Duke Fishron and had him follow me across the entire map and he covered all of it in Fog (I mean he covered it all at once, I just had him follow me so he won't despawn). Would that be an outlier? I know the very next boss is 5-C but the best feat next to that is 8-B+ (granted the very first boss in the game survives that but 8-B to an island covering fog seems like a massive jump in power).

 

[The_Calaca]

Isn't 8-B applicable to the first bosses? What result would the mist feat give?

Considering the scaling chain is quite notable, and the fact that Duke Fishron might be troublesome even post Golem, who's post Plantera, who comes post Three Mech Bosses, who come after the WoF, the outlier theory shouldn't hold any water.

 

[Keeweed]

It wasn't a theory, it was just a question on if it's an outlier or not.

The Fog can cover all of Terraria from sea level to space; though I've heard we can only use 20km for weather calcs even if we are basing the weather off maps (which isn't related to Terraria, just my reason why we should use 20Km).

If we are going off a low ball of the 20km the fog would definitely get tier 7 results, but I don't know what it would get if we include it going from sea level to the space biome.

 

[The_Calaca]

I said it like that because lots of people like to use the outlier argument to dismiss calcs.

Using those parameters you would get Tier 6 results for sure. You should ask Therefir, Ugarik or Spino for more input.

 

[Keeweed]

I'll ask them but I'm going to work in 2 hours so I'm not sure if I should get them right now or not.

 

[The_Calaca]

Better if you do it now. Don't worry about it.

 

[Keeweed]

Ok I'll ask them in a minute just need to finish getting ready for work.

 

[Overlord775]

Agree with the upgrades The Eye of Cthulhu is above the King Slime, as the latter is not strong enought to even considered a boss.

So EoC should probably be 8-B, likely 8-A

 

[Overlord775]

BTW, about Duke Fishron's feat, i don't think it's an outlier since the explosion comes from a arly game item and the Duke is an harmode boss, so the power difference is massive

Though, the Duke can be fought at any point during hardmode, even before the mechanical bosses, as the spawning of Turffle Worms begings as soon as you beat the Wall of Flesh.

 

[Keeweed]

Yeah but it's stats are clearly meant to be fought later as it destroys you pre mechanical bosses, also consider you get materials that you couldn't even scratch with WoF stuff pre mechanical bosses it makes more sense for Duke to be fought around Plantera and the Golem.

 

[The_Calaca]

Yeah, he can be summoned pre Mech Bosses, but Kewweed is right. The intention is to fight him after Plantera considering its difficulty.

 

[DeathstroketheHedgehog]

We get the 20 km number due to visibility. On clear days, we can see 20 km away.

This isn't a storm, this is a fog (personally I believe it as darkness, not fog, but I'm just working with this theory atm). Therefore, visibility is not 20 kms wide, at all. Since this is a fog, you'd be very lucky to argue if it's 1 km).

I also don't agree with this whole 'the storm goes up to space' thing, because if this is being used as a way to take actual Earth's atmosphere size, then this seems very iffy for self-evident reasons.

Also I agree that Duke Fishron should be around Post-Plantera/Golem level. Either that or I suck at the game.

Edit: the official definition of fog is visibility less than a mile.

 

[The_Calaca]

I mean, most guides say that you better fight it post Plantera.

You can't suck more than I do. I can't beat the Mech Bosses yet

 

[Keeweed]

I also don't agree with this whole 'the storm goes up to space' thing, because if this is being used as a way to take actual Earth's atmosphere size, then this seems very iffy for self-evident reasons.

What are the self evident reasons as to why we shouldn't use a realistic atmosphere. If you're talking about the size of the map I already talked about that on the Terraria range upgrade thread. The Backgrounds in Terraria are much larger than the in game map and game maps being so small are gameplay mechanics, unless you want to walk for 69 hours like in Daggerfall to get to one size of the map to the other.

Also the Terrarian wouldn't be moon level if we assume its a tiny atmosphere because the planet of Terraria would be much smaller thus the Moon would also be smaller.

Also the Fog covers from one side of Terraria all the way to the other side so it would be over a kilometer even if we use in game size. (I'm work right now so I won't be able to respond for 4 hours so sorry for any inconvenience).

 

[DeathstroketheHedgehog]

I don't play, nor even heard of Daggerfall, so that analogy doesn't really work for me.

Mountain heights are already possible in-game, and I've already elaborated with the argument of visibility that using width won't work here in this foggy scenario.

The argument is focused on the in-game atmosphere.And it's not like it has to adhere to gravitational physics considering that Terraria straight up pulls the moon towards the world during the Celestial Pillar event. The difference between the moon and the height here is that A: unless otherwise stated, moons in fiction are generally viewed as the size of our moon, and B: the moon is not a physical object in a game, so we don't get conflicting perspectives. In this scenario, the contradiction is how we're going to address every other height depiction in Terraria as "1 block = 2 feet high", and then completely throw it out of the window for the space biome. This would be like making Minecraft go to Supersonic+ by taking the clouds as a legitimate real world height.

The "fog" (which I still believe is darkness, unless an official statement says otherwise) is caused with Duke Fishron being at point 0. If you move far enough for Duke Fishron to despawn, or if you defeat Duke Fishron, this 'fog' instantly disappears.

 

[Overlord775]

The "fog" (which I still believe is darkness, unless an official statement says otherwise) is caused with Duke Fishron being at point 0. If you move far enough for Duke Fishron to despawn, or if you defeat Duke Fishron, this 'fog' instantly disappears.

Considering Fishron's whole deal is the manipulation of water, it's more likely to be some kind of fog

also it's blue in colour, so it can't be darkness [black]

also it disappearing when he disappears/dies is not really a point, since that just means the fog can't exits without his power keeping it up

 

[Keeweed]

We see Darkness manipulation from the Moon Lord and it looks completely different from Fishron, plus Fishron already has shown the power to control water so it is much more likely he is making mist or fog rather than darkness.

Mountain heights are possible in game but not multiple mountain ranges large enough to fit villages on them (one of the mountains in the background has a village on it).

DaggerFall and Minecraft can go on for as long as they do because they are automatically generated but the console version of Minecraft had a size similar to Terraria because it shared the same style of making the map: the entire map is made and then you play on it. Terraria has already had problems with making maps throughout its development so making the map as large as the backgrounds would make most PC fail to load the game.

I bring up DaggerFall because it is famous for being practically unplayable due to literally being the size of Great Britain, and lore wise the area is vastly larger than it is in game. Later on in that series Skyrim's map was over 20km wide and was still vastly smaller than it was in lore. We use the lore size for all our calcs including speed. One of the Dragons flies across Skyrim in a few seconds: in game this would be supersonic, but we use the lore distance and got massive hypersonic+ results despite the feat being from the game version.

Tonight I'll take a video and show you that the fog goes across Terraria without Fishron being next to the camera. In multiplayer the fog effects the entire map since players on opposite sides of the island experience the fog; so even in game it should be over a kilometer, but based off the backgrounds it should go to the horizon.

 

[Keeweed]

Here's the calc Spino made if we're basing it on the backgrounds.

But anyway since the island seems to stretch to the horizon then I'll use 20 km visibility as the radius. You said that the fog's from sea level to space so that's 100 km at least. Liquid water density of fog is 0.05 g/m^3, while condensation of water is 2264705 J/kg.

pi*20000^2*100000*0.05/1000*2264705 = 1.42295611810961454e16 Joules, Small City level.

If we use the in game size of the map then it'll probably be worse than the 8-A feat, but I think we should use the backgrounds and a realistic atmosphere like other verses.

 

[The_Calaca]

Seems to be a reasonable end.

 

[Keeweed]

Just want to say I got locked out of my house so I'll have to take the video of Duke covering all of Terraria in fog tomorrow. I know he does but it's good to have video evidence.

 

[Overlord775]

very sad :<

 

[Keeweed]

I unfortunately haven't been able to get the video yet as I had to do my Fasfa and go to work again. I have Sunday off so I'll get the video tonight at worst. However in the small amount of time I had i recalculated the fog feat using the in game map and got slightly above 7 kilotons. So even using in game map size it's an upgrade. At worst Duke Fishron could be 'At least Town level, possibly Small City level (Covered an island in fog and should be stronger than all three mechanical bosses)'

Though I still think he should just be low 7-B.

 

[The_Calaca]

At least 7-C, likely Low 7-B is a good compromise if we don't a consensus.

Either way it's a good upgrade.

 

[Overlord775]

Makes Terraria's High Tier stronger than Minecraft's, so it's obviously good ovo

 

[The_Calaca]

Of course

It also makes more credible the jump to tier 5.

 

[Antvasima]

What are the conclusions here?

 

[Keeweed]

The bosses are definitely going to be 8-B+ to 8-A but we haven't decided on the low 7-B key yet.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay.

 

[Overlord775]

bump

 

[Keeweed]

Sorry for not being able to comment. I had to do a essay, I may still need to do the essay, my class got cancelled so I need to check and see we my essay is due.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Thanks.

 

[Keeweed]

I'm going to get video or photos of Duke Fishron covering Terraria in fog after school today. After that I'm going to make a CTR for Duke because his profile is both out of date and I feel is a bit wrong when it comes to some of Duke's powers.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay.

 

[Keeweed]

I've been trying to get a photo of the fog covering the entire map for the last hour but my game keeps crashing. I'll try some more later but if someone else's pc runs better then they could use the camera mode Terraria has to show Duke Fishron's fog cover's the whole map. I know it does because Duke doesn't constantly make fog he only makes it once and it follows the same rules as the Moonlord's Darkness which also effects the entire map. My computer just won't save the camera mode pictures as the game keeps crashing.

In the mean time I'll go get a picture of Duke's fog and Moonlord's Darkness manipulation to show that are different.

 

[Keeweed]

the darkness starts at 1:20

Here is Duke's fog. The second photo has the exposure raised to make the photo more clear for fandom. With Duke it's a blue tint and you can still see the background, meanwhile the Moonlord's is completely black and it's impossible to see the background. Duke Fishron already has the ability to control water and water in Terraria is blue meaning it is much more likely to be fog or mist than darkness. Duke also gets stronger in water and which lines up with him getting stronger in the fog.





I can post the higher exposure picture by itself and circle the mountains in the background if you cannot see them.


After looking over the original pictures they were way to dark, here is the background. Zoomed in and brighten up even more.