TenSura WN Revision - Part 13 - Slime beyond Time

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

@DarkDragonMedeus @Elizhaa @Planck69 @Theglassman12

Your help here would be appreciated

Though I will note, I don't see how any of this is infinite, let alone immeasurable. It's explicitly stated time stop is an acceleration of million times, so there's nothing infinite there. Things look like there aren't moving and stopped quite literally because they are millions of times faster, that's simply a perception blitz.

 

[Sebas-S.P-san]

Though I will note, I don't see how any of this is infinite, let alone immeasurable. It's explicitly stated time stop is an acceleration of million times, so there's nothing infinite there. Things look like there aren't moving and stopped quite literally because they are millions of times faster, that's simply a perception blitz.

This has already been answered here in the OP.

Counter Arguments:
It's stated that Suspended World accelerates their speed by a "Million Times", yet despite that, they can keep up with the assumed infinite/Immeasurable speed characters when Finite x any finite number is still Finite.

Answer: First and foremost, something like multipliers do not always make sense. Additionally, Suspended World accelerates the speed of not only the user, but everyone that can move inside it, even if its an enemy. So the possibility that the "Million times" is simply another multiplier stacked on top of reaching the assumed infinite/immeasurable speed.

Additionally, the fact that beings like Veldora [WN] have a Low 2-C rating despite clearly not having finite energy serves as a proof that multipliers don't matter here.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

That doesn't really answer the core fact: They are simply moving million times faster. OP reached the conclusion of infinite by stating when they enter this, they seem "unmoving" and everything around them is "stopped". But this same effect can be achieved without infinite speed.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I read over the blog post for clarification. And so far, the Infinite speed proposals looked a bit weak. It was quoting what infinite speed characters look like compared to finite speed characters, but the in verse text seemed to mostly talk about characters moving so quick, that time stop has no effect on them. Teleportation having no time lag doesn't look like speed as opposed to same context as Goku's Instant Transmission.

However, Immeasurable speed arguments actually do have stronger details. They are using FTL metaphors to travel back in time which is weak by itself. Same with transcending time as a generic statement. However, other details such as character "outpacing teleportation" due to having faster than instantaneous reflexes and dodging an attack that already struck them via moving back in time. Some of the "Extradimensional" statements seem to more so talk about dimensional travel, but if "Extradimensional" refers to traveling through more than one temporal dimension, that is Immeasurable.

So based on my analysis, I actually see merit for Immeasurable but think the Infinite speed examples look weak.

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

@DarkDragonMedeus @Elizhaa @Planck69 @Theglassman12

Your help here would be appreciated

Though I will note, I don't see how any of this is infinite, let alone immeasurable. It's explicitly stated time stop is an acceleration of million times, so there's nothing infinite there. Things look like there aren't moving and stopped quite literally because they are millions of times faster, that's simply a perception blitz.

The above of what Sebas quoted, in addition to this:

Well, basically, its speed is described as "At the same time", "at the moment of Cognition", and for characters fighting at this speed, they are stated to show "No Movement" despite them clearly moving[1]. All this suggests Infinite Speed. The last one is referring to the fact on how someone with Finite Perception Speed cannot perceive even the movement of Infinite Speed characters.

The at the same time statement was from a supergenius later nigh-omniscient source, aka CieI, I think it should take priority over the miIIion times statement from Rimuru, who is far less knowledgeable and tends to underestimate things even while comparing two or more characters.

Additionally, it was literally stated that the speed of information has 0 time lag.

 

[Lycoris4812]

The at the same time statement was from a supergenius later nigh-omniscient source, aka CieI, I think it should take priority over the miIIion times statement from Rimuru, who is far less knowledgeable and tends to underestimate things even while comparing two or more characters.

And with though acceleration, Rimuru should have millions times the speed of light perception speed, right?

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

dodging an attack that already struck them via moving back in time.

Where was this stated in the blog/scans? I likely missed it.

The at the same time statement was from a supergenius later nigh-omniscient source, aka CieI, I think it should take priority over the miIIion times statement from Rimuru, who is far less knowledgeable and tends to underestimate things even while comparing two or more characters.

I disagree with this. From someone's perspective, something completely blitzing you might happen "instantaneously". When you coupled that with the fact the one that is actually experiencing this says it's an acceleration, then infinite just is that more unlikely. That being said

Additionally, it was literally stated that the speed of information has 0 time lag.

This might be more promising.

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

I read over the blog post for clarification. And so far, the Infinite speed proposals looked a bit weak. It was quoting what infinite speed characters look like compared to finite speed characters, but the in verse text seemed to mostly talk about characters moving so quick, that time stop has no effect on them. Teleportation having no time lag doesn't look like speed as opposed to same context as Goku's Instant Transmission.

This too:

The at the same time statement was from a supergenius later nigh-omniscient source, aka CieI, I think it should take priority over the miIIion times statement from Rimuru, who is far less knowledgeable and tends to underestimate things even while comparing two or more characters.

Additionally, it was literally stated that the speed of information has 0 time lag.

However, Immeasurable speed arguments actually do have stronger details. They are using FTL metaphors to travel back in time which is weak by itself. Same with transcending time as a generic statement. However, other details such as character "outpacing teleportation" due to having faster than instantaneous reflexes and dodging an attack that already struck them via moving back in time. Some of the "Extradimensional" statements seem to more so talk about dimensional travel, but if "Extradimensional" refers to traveling through more than one temporal dimension, that is Immeasurable.

Not sure what you mean by extra-dimensional here, but assuming you are referring to this, yes, the verse has 3 temporal dimensions.
There is regular time, and this extra-dimension is an infinite 4th spatial dimension overarching that, acting as the multiversal container, and is later overarched by 2 more temporal dimensions.

Additionally, not sure if it adds something, but the Time Stop in context effects 2 temporal dimensions as well.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

This too:


Not sure what you mean by extra-dimensional here, but assuming you are referring to this, yes, the verse has 3 temporal dimensions.
There is regular time, and this extra-dimension is an infinite 4th spatial dimension overarching that, acting as the multiversal container, and is later overarched by 2 more temporal dimensions.

Additionally, not sure if it adds something, but the Time Stop in context effects 2 temporal dimensions as well.

If time stop effects two temporal dimensions, then resisting that or moving so fast that doesn't effect you is Immeasurable outright.

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

I disagree with this. From someone's perspective, something completely blitzing you might happen "instantaneously". When you coupled that with the fact the one that is actually experiencing this says it's an acceleration, then infinite just is that more unlikely. That being said

That was actually clarified that while things like spatial transfer is not instantaneous and may be perceivable in the eyes of a master, teleportation is truly instantaneous, and information transfer is at least the same.

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

If time stop effects two temporal dimensions, then resisting that is Immeasurable outright.

I see. I was not aware that we had such standards, but I suppose that means outright immeasurable speed is fine?

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

That was actually clarified that while things like spatial transfer is not instantaneous and may be perceivable in the eyes of a master, teleportation is truly instantaneous, and information transfer is at least the same.

If spatial transfer has a time lag, and that's what they used to transfer the information, then I have to disagree fully with that then.

The teleportation may be instant (if not, then it's not teleportation at all, that's simply how teleportation works), but the act of transferring it through spatial transfer may not be. As in, you can legit blitz someone trying to spatial transfer before they fully go through the teleportation.

 

[Dark_Soul20189]

If spatial transfer has a time lag, and that's what they used to transfer the information, then I have to disagree fully with that then.

The teleportation may be instant (if not, then it's not teleportation at all, that's simply how teleportation works), but the act of transferring it through spatial transfer may not be. As in, you can legit blitz someone trying to spatial transfer before they fully go through the teleportation.

Just gonna clear this up, Spatial transfer is an extra skill... So they are specifically talking about that. The LN version of the ability is called "Spatial motion"

While teleportation is a higher version of that ability.

So Spatial transfer and teleportation have nothing to do with the speed of information.

While I am far from the most competent in the WN, I do hope I at least managed to clear this misunderstanding up.

 

[Planck69]

The Infinite arguments do look rather weak, though Immeasurable is promising.

 

[Elizhaa]

The infinite speed's proposals still look vague; the immeasurable speed's proposals look to be fine.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

The Infinite arguments do look rather weak, though Immeasurable is promising.

Is this an agreement? Since both DDM and Elizhaa agree

 

[Sebas-S.P-san]

Is this an agreement? Since both DDM and Elizhaa agree

Most likely yes, now we just need to wait for the grace period to be able to make the changes.

 

[Lycoris4812]

Most likely yes, now we just need to wait for the grace period to be able to make the changes.

Astral is asleep rn, so he'll reply in a while.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

Most likely yes, now we just need to wait for the grace period to be able to make the changes.

When Planck clarifies.

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

If spatial transfer has a time lag, and that's what they used to transfer the information, then I have to disagree fully with that then.

no. Spatial Transfer is an ability that they use to move between points via passing through another Dimension
The information transfer is doable via two ways:

• Through the Soul Corridor, a link between individuals that connects their information type 2 aspect to each other; The link transcends space and time, that is, even if the individuals are in different universes/space or time, they can send information to each other
• Through becoming an information body, a special kind of entity purely composed of information that allows those entities to thus move at this speed by nature of their existence

Teleportation can only, however, be done in Space to move between spatial coordinates, yet the fact that information transfer could outspeed said teleportation indicates that it can move through time as well.

It is also to consider that the no movement during fight statement was not a metaphor, but more so also happening despite the fact that all high tiers in the verse can accelerate their perception speed a million times.
Also, the verse follows the No movement can surpass Sol theory, so saying Rimuru cannot perceive them because they are too fast but still finite in speed contradicts that fact, especially given Rimuru has Ftl perception speed
What allows those entities to technically be faster then light is because their movement is akin to when time is stopped, meaning since no time passes and no time lag occurs, they are technically faster then Sol. However, an information entity;s movement is not just with no time lag across space, like teleportation, but also across time like I explained in the first blink above, so the only way to overpower that speed of information transfer is through stopping time, as that basically makes it so that they cannot travel in time as time ceases to exist

This act of stopping time to prevent their temporal movement was also done to prevent chloe from travelling in time, which she does by, I quote, flying to the past, in her astral form, aka non-physical form. Before, she could only do it once per time cycle, but after awakening a better ability, she can do the same mid-battle and continuously, yet even that was delt with via time stop.

Also, just to clarify, the time stop stops time across 2 temporal dimensions, which according to DDM qualifies for immeasurable speed easily:

If time stop effects two temporal dimensions, then resisting that or moving so fast that doesn't effect you is Immeasurable outright.

Most likely yes, now we just need to wait for the grace period to be able to make the changes.

Confirming with Ant here, the grace applies as 24 hours after the thread started, not passed.

However, I do not at all mind this getting prolonged a bit so plank can give their thoughts as lephyr said.

 

[Planck69]

When Planck clarifies.

Yeah, it is an agreement with Immeasurable specifically.

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

In the meantime, I will create a userblog and add all the accepted arguments from this thread there to link it in their future immeasurable speed ratings on their wiki profiles.

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

Snip

Snip

Snip

Snip

Blog has been created to be linked on the profile page:

TenSura Immeasurable Speed Explanation (Web Novel)

vsbattles.fandom.com

Could you all review it one last time before I implement it?

 

[PHANtomFELdway]

Blog has been created to be linked on the profile page:

TenSura Immeasurable Speed Explanation (Web Novel)

vsbattles.fandom.com

Could you all review it one last time before I implement it?

I seen 1 scan that didn’t have a translation.it was raws. Tho I only looked at a few scans

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

I seen 1 scan that didn’t have a translation.it was raws. Tho I only looked at a few scans

Quote the part in your reply that has no English translation. Though I am guessing it is just you forgetting to scroll down if the scan is in gyazo, since the notes/translations added to scans appear a little below the actual picture unlike imgur.

 

[PHANtomFELdway]

Quote the part in your reply that has no English translation. Though I am guessing it is just you forgetting to scroll down if the scan is in gyazo, since the notes/translations added to scans appear a little below the actual picture unlike imgur.

Basically any scan that talks about time not “existing “ they are all probably using the same scan


where Time does not exist



as in such a scenario, Time does not exist so they cannot move in Time



This ability, however, also be prevented via Suspended World as it makes it such that Time does not exist

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

Basically any scan that talks about time not “existing “ they are all probably using the same scan

where Time does not exist



as in such a scenario, Time does not exist so they cannot move in Time



This ability, however, also be prevented via Suspended World as it makes it such that Time does not exist

Hmm, seems I forgot to enable view description option. Should be working fine now.

 

[Lycoris4812]

Do I need to bumb this?

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

Do I need to bumb this?

Na, its not Iike it needs more input on the thread itseIf by necessity
Just input on the sandbox/bIog

 

[Antvasima]

@LephyrTheRevanchist @DarkDragonMedeus @Planck69 @Elizhaa

Do you think that this blog seems acceptable to apply?

TenSura Immeasurable Speed Explanation (Web Novel)

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

To be noted, like I said in my original comment, I don't see how this is immeasurable at all. But since my fellow staff do believe it so, I leave it to them to properly evaluate it. Consider myself neutral.

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

To be noted, like I said in my original comment, I don't see how this is immeasurable at all. But since my fellow staff do believe it so, I leave it to them to properly evaluate it. Consider myself neutral.

Not trying to sound rude at all, but have you taken into consideration my last post replying to you for your vote?

no. Spatial Transfer is an ability that they use to move between points via passing through another Dimension
The information transfer is doable via two ways:

• Through the Soul Corridor, a link between individuals that connects their information type 2 aspect to each other; The link transcends space and time, that is, even if the individuals are in different universes/space or time, they can send information to each other
• Through becoming an information body, a special kind of entity purely composed of information that allows those entities to thus move at this speed by nature of their existence

Teleportation can only, however, be done in Space to move between spatial coordinates, yet the fact that information transfer could outspeed said teleportation indicates that it can move through time as well.

It is also to consider that the no movement during fight statement was not a metaphor, but more so also happening despite the fact that all high tiers in the verse can accelerate their perception speed a million times.
Also, the verse follows the No movement can surpass Sol theory, so saying Rimuru cannot perceive them because they are too fast but still finite in speed contradicts that fact, especially given Rimuru has Ftl perception speed
What allows those entities to technically be faster then light is because their movement is akin to when time is stopped, meaning since no time passes and no time lag occurs, they are technically faster then Sol. However, an information entity;s movement is not just with no time lag across space, like teleportation, but also across time like I explained in the first blink above, so the only way to overpower that speed of information transfer is through stopping time, as that basically makes it so that they cannot travel in time as time ceases to exist

This act of stopping time to prevent their temporal movement was also done to prevent chloe from travelling in time, which she does by, I quote, flying to the past, in her astral form, aka non-physical form. Before, she could only do it once per time cycle, but after awakening a better ability, she can do the same mid-battle and continuously, yet even that was delt with via time stop.

In any case, I will add the staff votes to the op and take yours as neutral, so please tell me if you change your mind.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I think Immeasurable speed is sufficient.

 

[Elizhaa]

Immeasurable speed looks fine.