Tensura AP upgrade: for all tops(Read the crt)

[Jozaysmith?]

Not only that, but also that the being that fought against Velgrynd in volume 17 could only destroy a continent with all its might, this being at the level of an awakened demon lord, causing the same level of destruction as in the cardinal world, I just don't see tension being universal at all, I disagree, that's my vote as stated earlier

Sure, least you're not an admin

 

[Nxdia00]

The comparison with outer space is due to the fact that there is neither heaven nor earth in that world. And isn't this the world that is barely 100 meters in size?

Actually no. Otherworld or Underworld where Phantoms, Insectars, Cryptids are, is said to be bigger than universe in V17. 宇宙は広いが、異界ほどではない。

 

[Peak]

Actually no. Otherworld or Underworld where Phantoms, Insectars, Cryptids are, is said to be bigger than universe in V17. 宇宙は広いが、異界ほどではない。

I see, confused then, thanks

 

[BlackCat]

Why in volume 17 where Velgrynd destroys the weak worlds Why not 2C? Since each world represents a different SpaceTime.

And volume 17 has not yet been officially translated. Why do you use it?

 

[Jozaysmith?]

Why in volume 17 where Velgrynd destroys the weak worlds Why not 2C? Since each world represents a different SpaceTime.

And volume 17 has not yet been officially translated. Why do you use it?

"No matter how much you twist it, it won't change", i asked original japaense native speakers and other translations online so yes

Also wiki said if there's no feat if destroying the continuum then its not 2-C nor low 2c

 

[Jozaysmith?]

i would remove the true dragon shit off the table anyways since it looks like a spoiler to many

 

[BlackCat]

"No matter how much you twist it, it won't change", i asked original japaense native speakers and other translations online so yes

Also wiki said if there's no feat if destroying the continuum then its not 2-C nor low 2c

Why? In Volume 17, it was already explained that each world has different stories, time periods, cultures, and eras. which shows a different timeline So why didn't Welgrin's destruction of the worlds reach 2C?

(Although in this thread you use it officially translated from volume 16 But you also used the raw from volume 17. That makes me wonder why it's not 2C?)

 

[Tempestdragon6]

Why? In Volume 17, it was already explained that each world has different stories, time periods, cultures, and eras. which shows a different timeline So why didn't Welgrin's destruction of the worlds reach 2C?

(Although in this thread you use it officially translated from volume 16 But you also used the raw from volume 17. That makes me wonder why it's not 2C?)

I'll let you cook this time

 

[Mafuuu]

"No matter how much you twist it, it won't change", i asked original japaense native speakers and other translations online so yes

Also wiki said if there's no feat if destroying the continuum then its not 2-C nor low 2c

Isn't that the same thing? Destroying a world that has a space-time continuum.

 

[TWILIGHT-OP]

 

[XRking]

That aside, what do we scale Rimuru’s Azathoth Imaginary space then, High 3-A since its infinite?

 

[Mafuuu]

That aside, what do we scale Rimuru’s Azathoth Imaginary space then, High 3-A since its infinite?

Oh shit, this is gonna be long

 

[Catpija]

Why? In Volume 17, it was already explained that each world has different stories, time periods, cultures, and eras. which shows a different timeline So why didn't Welgrin's destruction of the worlds reach 2C?

(Although in this thread you use it officially translated from volume 16 But you also used the raw from volume 17. That makes me wonder why it's not 2C?)

I'm a bit iffy about this, but Chloe can use Infinite Prison to either block Veldora's attack or holds her own energy which stated to be equal of those of True Dragons. Since Unlimited Prison is High 3-A, then 2-C would obviously be impossible, unless we treat Infinite Prison as 2-C now(?).

Both options are possible

 

[Jozaysmith?]

I'm a bit iffy about this, but Chloe can use Infinite Prison to either block Veldora's attack or holds her own energy which stated to be equal of those of True Dragons. Since Unlimited Prison is High 3-A, then 2-C would obviously be impossible, unless we treat Infinite Prison as 2-C now(?).

Both options are possible

Lets focus on 3-A i have my reasons for not making it high 3-A Like before which took like 5 pages
I had to make all arguments pretty easy to understand in this one

 

[Jozaysmith?]

And what is that supposed to mean? We have examples of locations created by Veldanava that are not even larger than a planet, being a universe created by Veldanava doesn't really prove much, especially when we read volume 17, this is without considering that the thread ignores tons of inconsistencies within the series, Fuze never gives a definitive, straightforward statement about universe destruction for a reason.

What is bro cooking
Star palace was his birth place and its a god damn palace that's the only place Veldanava created that's small
A palace that even have its separate continuum
No character throughout the series can even destroy the gate of star palace lol
So that's a slip of logic on your path
Place better arguments
Volume 17 said
The universe (the material universe) is big but not as big as the underworld
So yeah

 

[Peak]

palace that's the only place Veldanava created that's small

Show evidence that it is the only world created by Veldanava that is small and I will agree with you

 

[Jozaysmith?]

Show evidence that it is the only world created by Veldanava that is small and I will agree with you

You show evidence that, that isnt the only world that's small cuz canonically shown to be small

 

[Peak]

You who are claiming that Veldanava does not create small worlds when he literally did, you are simply having nothing to back up your claims, that is pure fallacy

 

[Jozaysmith?]

You who are claiming that Veldanava does not create small worlds when he literally did, you are simply having nothing to back up your claims, that is pure fallacy

Narrative havent ever specified any "small" world brother so thats your burden
If you have evidence that there's another world that's like star palace then be my guess

 

[Peak]

Bruh, so good luck if you think this CRT will go ahead with this passive thinking

 

[Jozaysmith?]

I don't even think admins are coming don't worry

 

[DeusExMachine001]

Destroying 2 world in tensura basically makes you 2-C because there is no Casuallty between worlds so every world has it's own time [ Space time Continuum ]

“	They were governed by completely different laws, and there was no causality. It was a material world within a great spiritual world of many different civilizations.	„
	volume 17 / chapter 2

There is also weird space between worlds.

“	Velgrynd took her first leap into the strange space between unknown worlds. There, she found herself unbounded by time and confronted her inner self. By doing so, she made the Ultimate Skill ‘Divine Flame King’ (Cthugha) completely her own.	„
	volume 17 / chapter 2

And here you can at least say this is a Low 3 -A [ Which is a Tier that doesn't exist ] Feat at worst [ You can say this worlds are so weak they aren't even worth to mention ] but you still get 3-A simply because it's a Universe

“

There were weak worlds that could be blown away by a True Dragon if it unleashed all of its strength, and there were desolate worlds where angels and demons comparable to awakened Demon Lords were in constant conflict.

„

Here you go Worlds are vast.

“	The universe is vast, but not as vast as the other worlds. They thought that if they had gained a relying spirit and incarnated themselves, they could completely conquer this space-time within a few thousand to tens of thousands of years. At the same time, they had developed the Underworld Gate, which leads to other dimensions, and had their sights set on a further invasion.	„
	volume 17 / chapter 2

I dont understand this subject is not even worth to mention for me True Dragons should straight get a Low 2-C by canonical reasons too but I am not even gonna try.

And How do we know if the Heavenly Star Place is small it's just says its Isolated.

“	you know you're in an otherworld right? this is the star Palace the birth place of veldanava the star king dragon,it existed before the creation of all worlds,its adjacent to them,yet isolated	„
	Volume 18 / Chapter 3

And yes of course If you destroy one world in tensura you can straight get a 3-A or if you destroy a whole dimension inside world you can get layered 3-A like 2-3 worlds of 3-A.

Hopefully I did explain myself.

 

[Jozaysmith?]

Destroying 2 world in tensura basically makes you 2-C because there is no Casuallty between worlds so every world has it's own time [ Space time Continuum ]

“	They were governed by completely different laws, and there was no causality. It was a material world within a great spiritual world of many different civilizations.	„
	volume 17 / chapter 2

There is also weird space between worlds.

“	Velgrynd took her first leap into the strange space between unknown worlds. There, she found herself unbounded by time and confronted her inner self. By doing so, she made the Ultimate Skill ‘Divine Flame King’ (Cthugha) completely her own.	„
	volume 17 / chapter 2

And here you can at least say this is a Low 3 -A [ Which is a Tier that doesn't exist ] Feat at worst [ You can say this worlds are so weak they aren't even worth to mention ] but you still get 3-A simply because it's a Universe

“

There were weak worlds that could be blown away by a True Dragon if it unleashed all of its strength, and there were desolate worlds where angels and demons comparable to awakened Demon Lords were in constant conflict.

„

Here you go Worlds are vast.

“	The universe is vast, but not as vast as the other worlds. They thought that if they had gained a relying spirit and incarnated themselves, they could completely conquer this space-time within a few thousand to tens of thousands of years. At the same time, they had developed the Underworld Gate, which leads to other dimensions, and had their sights set on a further invasion.	„
	volume 17 / chapter 2

I dont understand this subject is not even worth to mention for me True Dragons should straight get a Low 2-C by canonical reasons too but I am not even gonna try.

And How do we know if the Heavenly Star Place is small it's just says its Isolated.

“	you know you're in an otherworld right? this is the star Palace the birth place of veldanava the star king dragon,it existed before the creation of all worlds,its adjacent to them,yet isolated	„
	Volume 18 / Chapter 3

And yes of course If you destroy one world in tensura you can straight get a 3-A or if you destroy a whole dimension inside world you can get layered 3-A like 2-3 worlds of 3-A.

Hopefully I did explain myself.

1. The worlds are considered weak cuz it have no magicule just matter
2. Star palace is small since it was said to be 90km in size

The Heavenly Star Palace is a small flat plain. It exists in a sphere with lower and higher halves being split between earth and sky respectfully.

Its actually less than a hundred square miles in size with no seasons, and a single chalk colored castle.

There's a sense of time being stopped due to the lack of change the world possesses.- volume 18

Reegarldess of that it wasn't created by Veldanava it prolly spawned on its own

No way the birthplace of the star king dragon Veldanava?, i thought this would be a folklore like a myth

That's all

 

[DeusExMachine001]

. The worlds are considered weak cuz it have no magicule just matter
2. Star palace is small since it was said to be 90km in size

That's still 3-A ? isnt it. Even if they are straight material with no Magicules?

 

[Jozaysmith?]

That's still 3-A ? isnt it. Even if they are straight material with no Magicules?

Your argument was inferring weak worlds are low 3-A which made no sense so i had to correct you

 

[Dereck03]

Closing per OP's request.

 

[Dereck03]

Nevermind guys, i'm sorry i misread OP's request.

Unlocking the thread again.

 

[Dereck03]

@Jordan911 can you give me a summary of what's being discussed so i can give an evaluation?

 

[Jozaysmith?]

@Jordan911 can you give me a summary of what's being discussed so i can give an evaluation?

They are stated to be invaders from other worlds (dimensions) going in to the Underworld
As op is "zalario single handedly destroy those dimensions"
Which related to the weak worlds thing about true dragons
Which i showed the scan of them actually just being universes with physical matter only and no magicule
And then how rimuru and Diablo ap would scale to 3-A
I also cleared the misunderstanding between the planet level feats made

 

[Dereck03]

After reading all the thread i share the same sentiments with this comment.

And my original point is that there's no evidence that can be used to back it up to determinate if they do it immedietly which could be overtime, or any other specific things, that's all.

Additionally we keep seeing contradictions to the scaling like phantoms taking 10,000 years to conquer a space time, its obvious that was so according to
This they just wanted a safe haven, a home.because of the other world being so rigid additonally because that other world was was too big

Even with this it seems to me to be excecive the amount of 10 thousand years even if it was taking into account the safety first and foremost and therefore the time, neutral.

@Celestial_Pegasus @Elizhaa your input here may be needed for better clarification.

 

[Jozaysmith?]

After reading all the thread i share the same sentiments with this comment.



Even with this it seems to me to be excecive the amount of 10 thousand years even if it was taking into account the safety first and foremost and therefore the time, neutral.

@Celestial_Pegasus @Elizhaa your input here may be needed for better clarification.

Even if the time frame is unsaid
Since those phantoms are actually very weak
And zalario doing them alone is good feat
But we know true dragons can wipe those worlds out with their haki as confirmed "there are worlds that would be blown apart if the "dragon" species were to release all their might"

 

[Jozaysmith?]

the time here would be almost immediately also thanks for your input
Let me add that we dont need confirmation of the size
Since this isn't a subspace or hyper space created by the characters like Velgrynd dimension or rimuru imaginary space
It is in the op itself that "the underworld is more vast than even those vast universes"

 

[DeusExMachine001]

Your argument was inferring weak worlds are low 3-A which made no sense so i had to correct you

That's What I am saying even tough that tier doesn't exist true dragons are canonical 3-A characters and there shouldn't even be argument about this.

 

[JV_DLS]

hmm, there seems to be no more questions about the destruction capacity but rather the interval to carry it out, for me it is a sensible thing in the work for the top tiers to receive 3-A, Velgrynd's statements are the best support for his argument and the better chance of getting a 3-A or even a 2-C, since with them we have confirmation of universal destruction by the TD, I don't see many reasons to disagree with this other than the uncertainty of the range

 

[Rizkykarbit]

1. The worlds are considered weak cuz it have no magicule just matter
2. Star palace is small since it was said to be 90km in size

Reegarldess of that it wasn't created by Veldanava it prolly spawned on its own

That's all

As far as I know, it was the words of one of the clown members, and they knew it through mythology. You can't swallow the words raw, you have to see if the statement is justified or not. In some cases, the existing mythological stories are not always the same, mythological stories such as the Dragon Princess from Sarion also have differences, so my advice you should be able to examine it again to say that, if it appeared before the birth of Veldanava then Veldanava may not be the only creator.

Why do I say it's possible that Veldanava is not the creator of everything? That's because Star Place also has time and space, while time and space are something that emerges from the Great Spirit time and Space.

It would make the statement that Veldanava is the creator inconsistent

 

[Jozaysmith?]

As far as I know, it was the words of one of the clown members, and they knew it through mythology. You can't swallow the words raw, you have to see if the statement is justified or not. In some cases, the existing mythological stories are not always the same, mythological stories such as the Dragon Princess from Sarion also have differences, so my advice you should be able to examine it again to say that, if it appeared before the birth of Veldanava then Veldanava may not be the only creator.

Why do I say it's possible that Veldanava is not the creator of everything? That's because Star Place also has time and space, while time and space are something that emerges from the Great Spirit time and Space.

It would make the statement that Veldanava is the creator inconsistent

You're not making sense

 

[Nxdia00]

As far as I know, it was the words of one of the clown members, and they knew it through mythology. You can't swallow the words raw, you have to see if the statement is justified or not. In some cases, the existing mythological stories are not always the same, mythological stories such as the Dragon Princess from Sarion also have differences, so my advice you should be able to examine it again to say that, if it appeared before the birth of Veldanava then Veldanava may not be the only creator.

Why do I say it's possible that Veldanava is not the creator of everything? That's because Star Place also has time and space, while time and space are something that emerges from the Great Spirit time and Space.

It would make the statement that Veldanava is the creator inconsistent

1. The terms first debuted in V4 from Yuuki which used by various other characters throughout the series including Feldway and Guy who literally don't know him at that time.

2. God created the reality and the one who is omnipotent and omniscience. God = Veldanava but Veldanava (TD) =/= God. Veldanava is the will of God and what left after stripping his own omnipotence and omniscience. The first thing Veldanava created are the many other worlds with the seven Original Angels being the first lifeforms he created using Great Holy Spirit of Light. Star Palace and the 8 Great Holy Spirit, and prob the Spiritual World are what God created before becoming Veldanava.

3. Veldanava never was and never will said to create everything. TD implied to came into existence by themself hence the siblings of Veldanava, Primordial Daemon actually not created directly by Veldanava, Many species and races including Humans actually created by Twilight, Ivarage similiar to TD, etc. But it's a fact that Veldanava (TD) actually created myriad of worlds or universes.

 

[Rizkykarbit]

1. The terms first debuted in V4 from Yuuki which used by various other characters throughout the series including Feldway and Guy who literally don't know him at that time.

2. God created the reality and the one who is omnipotent and omniscience. God = Veldanava but Veldanava (TD) =/= God. Veldanava is the will of God and what left after stripping his own omnipotence and omniscience. The first thing Veldanava created are the many other worlds with the seven Original Angels being the first lifeforms he created using Great Holy Spirit of Light. Star Palace and the 8 Great Holy Spirit, and prob the Spiritual World are what God created before becoming Veldanava.

3. Veldanava never was and never will said to create everything. TD implied to came into existence by themself hence the siblings of Veldanava, Primordial Daemon actually not created directly by Veldanava, Many species and races including Humans actually created by Twilight, Ivaraje similiar to TD, etc. But it's a fact that Veldanava (TD) actually created myriad of worlds or universes.

Then what about Veldanava's own statement, he said that he was everything. God you mean is the initial form of Veldanava which he said was "Will" who created the Great Spirit?

I don't understand God of Creator, Veldanava who never denied that in God of creator and others, his character development looks bad because of many inconsistent things

 

[Jozaysmith?]

Then what about Veldanava's own statement, he said that he was everything. God you mean is the initial form of Veldanava which he said was "Will" who created the Great Spirit?

I don't understand God of Creator, Veldanava who never denied that in God of creator and others, his character development looks bad because of many inconsistent things

Sorry if i sound rude but you dont understand English or you dont understand what he meant
Its 100% clear how he explained it just now
God≠Veldanava in terms of their existence
Veldanava is a true dragon
God is when Veldanava was all doing and all knowing
Veldanava just created worlds and angels
Evrything else was created by magicules(monsters), twilight(humanity), great spirit (demons)and likely ramiris (the spirits)

 

[Nxdia00]

Then what about Veldanava's own statement, he said that he was everything. God you mean is the initial form of Veldanava which he said was "Will" who created the Great Spirit?

I don't understand God of Creator, Veldanava who never denied that in God of creator and others, his character development looks bad because of many inconsistent things

Um, my prev reply already explained it. Idk why do you think it inconsistent.

God basically what Veldanava before he became a True Dragon. God was the only will, Omnipotent and Omniscience, an absolute perfection, oneness (one was all and all was one).
ハハハ、それはね、ボクが全知全能なんかじゃないからさ。生まれた時は、ボクの意思だけがあった。その時は満たされていて、欠けたるものなど何一つなかった。完全無欠、〝全なる一〟──つまり、ボクしかいない世界だったんだ。そんなの、つまらないだろう？