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TD Lavos vs Daemon

Thing is, he actually needs to kill Lavos before doing that, which admittedly won't be easy, while a fragment/fraction of the thing's power in the hands of a much weaker character is confirmed to put 2-A Souls in a state of incapacitation. ovo

And since hax still works unless the target has a comparable feat of resistance in that scale... Hence why I'm saying this.

To make it even worse, coupling that with Lavos voiding immunities and that passive magic absorption, the gap here doesn't sound big enough to make up for the difference to me when we add Lavos' general array of hax to the equation. If TD was baseline 2-A I could say so, but otherwise eh...
 
Dragonmasterxyz said:
And can attack while asleep thanks to Belphemon.
Click to expand...
I can guarantee, with a 100% certainty, that he's not beating TD while asleep. ovo Even moreso when Dream Devourer stuff comes into play. To make matters worse, if he invokes Nightmares, that makes Lavos even stronger by eating them up as well.
 
Or he could summon the Dark Area and do it immediately. Or he could also leave to the Dark Area. Also just going to point out. Immunities to Statuses should not be a thing. We has a whole thing regarding Immunities. Also do we give all bosses resistances? Also putting Lavos down or at least destroying him is much easier than you think thanks to Lilithmon, Barbamon and Leviamon's abilities.

Never said it didn't. But Ii wouldn't only bet on that here. I dunno if Lavos' Soul stuff is comparable to the Dark Area or not tho.

Also, thanks to UlforceVeedramon, he has the natural ability to Regenerate faster than instant deletion attacks. So Existence Erasure obviously isn't a thing. Gotta cut it short for a sec. Will continue a little later.
 
I'm not arguing that since I told from the start that "I'm not using that" when referring to immunity to status. The putting the Soul to Sleep hax wasn't even in-battle for that matter, as you can see in the screens above, so I shouldn't have even mentioned stats effects.

As for the Dark Area, I believe by itself is non-existence. Daemon could try to erase Lavos from non-existence or send it there but it should also be noted that Lavos can leave non-existent areas back to Reality since it left the DBT while in its DD form. So unless I'm missing something here, Daemon would need to send it to the Dark Area and delete it before Lavos could warp back out of it, since by all means leaving the non-existence of the DBT should be impossible and Lavos does it anyways.

The Soul stuff is a variation, so I dunno. I say "Lavos voids immunities" because it's the description of the thing (and what people added to the profile) but think of it as resistances anyways.
 
Dragonmasterxyz said:
Also, thanks to UlforceVeedramon, he has the natural ability to Regenerate faster than instant deletion attacks. So Existence Erasure obviously isn't a thing. Gotta cut it short for a sec. Will continue a little later.
Click to expand...
I don't think I argued anywhere ever that Lavos erases a non-existent being, but if I did without noticing, sorry here, because he can't. Hence why I was saying Soul Sleep, Magic Draining and Absorption could be things rather than anything like destruction or killing.
 
You know what, Cal? The funny thing is, I don't care who wins.

Read my replies.

See if you find a vote. Or me saying anyone takes it.

I'm just making Dragon's life harder because whyyyyy not?
Dundunduuun4
I DID IT ALL...
 
You never said anything about existence erasure. I am just pulling out random powers for no reason. ovo

To explain the Dark Area. Or to simply Copy/Paste the blog.

"Dark Area: The Dark Area is the graveyard of deleted data, it is a world of nothingness (The Dark Area is timeless and spaceless ). Everything that enters the Dark Area risks being erased and therefore most of the beings that inhabit this place are beings that have been erased from existence (without physical body, mind or soul). In the Dark Area darkness and evil feelings are concentrated, it feeds on other living beings and when activated it affects the very structure of the universe by changing the natural laws, feelings of living things and more."

Also @Cal


Phantom Pain: Curses the opponent to death with a sigh of darkness.

"Its Special Move is rotting the opponent's body with a sigh of darkness. It is said that if one is struck by this curse, their data dissipates from the tips of their body and they suffer pain even in death."

Nazar Nail: Uses the claws on her right hand to corrode anything they touch.

Poison: This skill includes multiple attack modes´╝ÜSummons a magic circle, Attacks with energy breath, Release a heart-shaped energy wave, Sprays poison smoke and hits the foe with a body attack to convert the opponent's power into dark energy, destroying them from the inside. The stronger the opponent, the stronger the poison.

And finally the power of REDUNDANCY!!!!!!!

Flame Inferno: Fires a stream of extremely high-temperature hellfire to destroy his foe without a trace.
 
Dragonmasterxyz said:
"Dark Area: The Dark Area is the graveyard of deleted data, it is a world of nothingness (The Dark Area is timeless and spaceless ). Everything that enters the Dark Area risks being erased and therefore most of the beings that inhabit this place are beings that have been erased from existence (without physical body, mind or soul). In the Dark Area darkness and evil feelings are concentrated, it feeds on other living beings and when activated it affects the very structure of the universe by changing the natural laws, feelings of living things and more."
Click to expand...
Bolded part is basically the same thing as the DBT. The difference comes with their added bonuses, whereas the Dark area has darkness and evil feelings concentrated to boot, the DBT has an added bonus of saying "NO!" to anyone trying to enter or leave it by their own means rather than being erased.

Lavos' power is the only known thing to grant both access to it and the capacity to leave (hence why you need the Frozen Flame at endgame to get to the thing).
 
Welp, guess this covers my one or two questions.

That's all the serious talking from me.

@Dragon I vote Daemon via Flame Inferno, can't compete with that. ovo You should have brought it from the beginning and this discussion would be over.
 
Y'know me and Fate have been talking for a bit. I've lost touch with whose reasons have declared a winner so far. We have Lavos' soul sleep thing. And we have Concept and Nonexistence Erasure plus Phantom Pain.
 
Daemon has really potent Concept and Non-Existence Erasure, likely is above TD in the 2-A scale (doesn't decide the match but helps him in the long run) and can Negate the regen so that's a thing.

Lavos has Soul Sleep, passive Magic Draining (much like Daemon being higher, this doesn't decide the match, but helps him in the long run) and Absorption if he pulls it.

I think that covers the main stuff.

Of course, this is only if Flame Inferno gets restricted, lest Daemon low-diffs.
 
Also, before anyone asks, I do not know if this Daemon can go Super Ultimate. If he can that would change the tide heavily when it comes to AP. I'll wait for Mugen or Executor to appear to let me know.
 
That's very true.

Waiting for Cal to come here and say "biased OP, lets the character change to a higher form in a balanced match."
 
I like how Daemon got like the most random Super Ultimate form out of nowhere though. ovo

Super Ultimate Daemon
He's waiting for confirmation....
 
Dragonmasterxyz said:
Basically, Dark Area and DBT are null and void here (That's a pun...laugh)
Click to expand...
Funny enough, they do serve the exact same purpose within the themes of their own verses.

The Dark Area is a graveyard of deleted data, the Darkness Beyond Time is the graveyard of erased timelines.
 
Since this got buried might as well go and say Inconclusive. Both have a number of similar powers, neither is too down there in Baseline and while this isn't an eternal stalemate, both have good enough means to deal with the other and I can't tell for sure who's killing who by the end of it.
 
This thread is full of replies yet if not for me going "Eh, might as well since no one else did." there would be 0 votes.

wut
 
Well I can't vote soooo...Pachi never gave a vote last I checked. Neither did Cal.
 
Well, for the reasons given above I believe that inconclusive is the most plausible solution.
 
Dragonmasterxyz said:
And finally the power of REDUNDANCY!!!!!!!

Flame Inferno: Fires a stream of extremely high-temperature hellfire to destroy his foe without a trace.
Click to expand...
/\ Only Inconclusive because Dragon restricted this, tho. Otherwise Daemon would low-diff. ovo
 
I believe this Daemon > TD lavos in Raw power. As Daemon can prevent lavos' regen, I see Daemon killing Lavos more times than the other way around. And maybe the Keys or eating the Multiverse with the Dark area can prevent Lavos from comming back. They have very similar haxes, so the difference in AP I believe is crucial.

Voting Daemon here.
 
@Pachi2 And here we go.

Daemon may be higher in raw power, but that's way less relevant than the hax category in which they're fairly even. Not to mention, as I discussed above, gap isn't that big and can be progressively closed via passive Magic Draining, which will most likely cancel each other out.

Eating the Multiverse doesn't matter - if anything that will actually help Lavos since it's its main goal.

Lavos is acausal so changes to one Lavos don't matter to another. He'll need to get rid of them all. Even if he prevents one from coming back after killing it, it's irrelevant to the alternate replacements.

Dark Area was discussed above and cancels out with the DBT for the most part.

So no, difference in AP is not a decisive factor here by any means.
 
question about magic draining.

If I kill Lavos 1, that lavos will become flesh and stuff for Daemon.

Will Lavos 2 retain the magic Lavos 1 absorbed? No, right? Daemon would grow stronger with each kill.

Well, eating the multiverse wont help lavos since he isnt the one eating it, ovo. He'd die from starvation.

I still dont see this: If I destroyed every single timeline (infinites at that, daemon can do it), how would that affect Lavos?
 
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