Lavos vs. Giratina

[Jinsye]

Goofy nonexistent flea/dragon/crystal thing vs. goofy anti-existence caterpillar.

Fight takes place in the Darkness Beyond Time so Lavos' type 9 doesn't come into play.

Speed is =

True Form Giratina and Full Potential Time Devourer are used.

Who wins?

Lavos: 0

Giratina: 0

 

[theultimate5105]

What stops Giratina from just sealing

 

[Jinsye]

I don't think sealing would work since Lavos can freely enter and leave a place like the Dimensional Vortex, which prevents all exit and entry.

 

[theultimate5105]

I don't think sealing would work since Lavos can freely enter and leave a place like the Dimensional Vortex, which prevents all exit and entry.

That really isn't sealing of the same type, you can't move or even think under the effects of Giratinas sealing

 

[Jinsye]

That really isn't sealing of the same type, you can't move or even think under the effects of Giratinas sealing

Does preventing someone from thinking even work on something that doesn't have a mind. Plus as far as I can see, Giratina has to throw Lavos into the distortion world and he resists being BFR'd.

 

[theultimate5105]

Does preventing someone from thinking even work on something that doesn't have a mind. Plus as far as I can see, Giratina has to throw Lavos into the distortion world and he resists being BFR'd.

Nah he has no Reason to require it in his true form
also the justification for resisting BFR is super weird

 

[Jinsye]

also the justification for resisting BFR is super weird

What's weird about it.

 

[theultimate5105]

What's weird about it.

It says he is unaffected after being sent to hell, which isn’t resistence, the video seems Like it could be resistence Though.

 

[Soulgizmo]

Giratinas sealing sounds better than whatever it was lavos resisted on paper

 

[Ego]

I'm going with the devil centipede over the cannibalistic tick with sealing

 

[Jinsye]

So the argument seems to be sealing, but I don't necessarily think that works due to the fact that apparently you need feats affecting a nonexistent mind to affect it? So blocking off thought doesn't work or something.

Even then, I'm not certain if it'd even work due to Lavos' resistance to BFR since it seems to rely on throwing someone into the Distortion World. Lavos' first move is generally to devour dreams which would definitely put down Giratina.

 

[deonment]

To add to what ed said above, firstly to even assume the sealing works is a bit of a bruh moment since it is sending someone somewhere, BFR, even if Lavos didn't resist for some reason it doesn't have to range to actually send Lavos out of the DBT, and nothing is stopping it from just, leaving, or sitting and snipping, if it does work, there because it still has the range to snipe Giritina who would still be inside the DBT.

 

[Ego]

So the argument seems to be sealing, but I don't necessarily think that works due to the fact that apparently you need feats affecting a nonexistent mind to affect it? So blocking off thought doesn't work or something.

Even then, I'm not certain if it'd even work due to Lavos' resistance to BFR since it seems to rely on throwing someone into the Distortion World. Lavos' first move is generally to devour dreams which would definitely put down Giratina.

Does the creation trio even dream?

 

[Ego]

To add to what ed said above, firstly to even assume the sealing works is a bit of a bruh moment since it is sending someone somewhere, BFR, even if Lavos didn't resist for some reason it doesn't have to range to actually send Lavos out of the DBT, and nothing is stopping it from just, leaving, or sitting and snipping, if it does work, there because it still has the range to snipe Giritina who would still be inside the DBT.

DBT shouldn't be an issue for giratina

 

[Oliver_de_jesus]

Does the creation trio even dream?

In Chrono verse, dreams are, so to speak, conceptual abstractions, and as far as I recall, Darkrai did not attempt to use his Dream hax on Palkia and dialga?

 

[Ego]

In Chrono verse, dreams are, so to speak, conceptual abstractions, and as far as I recall, Darkrai did not attempt to use his Dream hax on Palkia and dialga.

Darkrai has a passive nightmare hax that activates the moment it makes someone go to sleep(Bad dreams)

 

[deonment]

Does the creation trio even dream?

Dreams aren't the usual, fall asleep and dream shit, its a type 1 concept that makes up all things and is their origin, Lavos eating them is going to be an instant loss

DBT shouldn't be an issue for giratina

The DBT is a place that is 2 entire layers above baseline 2-A range, DBT>Zuravan>Normal 2-A multiverse, he does not have the range. There is a good reason for why the OP started this in the DBT, and it isn't just due to the type 9

 

[theultimate5105]

Dreams aren't the usual, fall asleep and dream shit, its a type 1 concept that makes up all things and is their origin, Lavos eating them is going to be an instant loss

The DBT is a place that is 2 entire layers above baseline 2-A range, DBT>Zuravan>Normal 2-A multiverse, he does not have the range. There is a good reason for why the OP started this in the DBT, and it isn't just due to the type 9

The DBT is not accepted as beyond baseline range and going with that logic Giratinas range is millions of layers Above baseline
DND is literally the only verse with accepted beyond baseline range

To add to what ed said above, firstly to even assume the sealing works is a bit of a bruh moment since it is sending someone somewhere, BFR, even if Lavos didn't resist for some reason it doesn't have to range to actually send Lavos out of the DBT, and nothing is stopping it from just, leaving, or sitting and snipping, if it does work, there because it still has the range to snipe Giritina who would still be inside the DBT.

not how the sealing works at all. The sealing traps the target so they cannot move or think or use their abilties.

 

[deonment]

The DBT is not accepted as beyond baseline range and going with that logic Giratinas range is millions of layers Above baseline
DND is literally the only verse with accepted beyond baseline range

I'm gonna let ed explain this but this is just wrong.

not how the sealing works at all. The sealing traps the target so they cannot move or think or use their abilties.

Affect what mind to stop them from thinking, Lavos has a nonexistent mind and the only thing in Pokemon that has a nonexistent mind is Arceus itself, who Giratina isn't even close to affecting, that realm does nothing and at worse Lavos just ees itself to come back to the DBT and vores Giratina.

 

[theultimate5105]

I'm gonna let ed explain this but this is just wrong.

It is most definitely not wrong.
You need to prove in a CRT that DBT is beyond baseline range.

Affect what mind to stop them from thinking, Lavos has a nonexistent mind and the only thing in Pokemon that has a nonexistent mind is Arceus itself, who Giratina isn't even close to affecting, that realm does nothing and at worse Lavos just ees itself to come back to the DBT and vores Giratina.

Giratina effects beings which predate the fundamental spirit which is mind and soul (literally every CT member)

 

[Jinsye]

The DBT is not accepted as beyond baseline range and going with that logic Giratinas range is millions of layers Above baseline

We accept it verses being >>> baseline 2-A range if the realm is considered more difficult to reach than a normal multiverse. For example, the Darkness Beyond Time is an example as it exists beyond the multiverse as a whole and it isn't possible to reach normally without a special macguffin that lets you do so. You can't reach the DBT otherwise.

 

[deonment]

Giratina effects beings which predate the fundamental spirit which is mind and soul (literally every CT member)

Predation of and lack of an essence are two different entirely things, but also you need to prove that they affected that aspect, just saying they can interact with them physically isn't proof for being able to affect those aspects, you would have to show a power of the aspect that they lack working on them before saying that they can actually interact with said nonexistent aspect

 

[theultimate5105]

We accept it verses being >>> baseline 2-A range if the realm is considered more difficult to reach than a normal multiverse. For example, the Darkness Beyond Time is an example as it exists beyond the multiverse as a whole and it isn't possible to reach normally without a special macguffin that lets you do so. You can't reach the DBT otherwise.

Then Pokemon also applies, except it would have millions of layers as the Extralink is needed for travel between Save Files, while normal tech can travel across Infinite universes as well as there being many locations which connect to infinite universes. and no that isn't enough proof on its own

Predation of and lack of an essence are two different entirely things, but also you need to prove that they affected that aspect, just saying they can interact with them physically isn't proof for being able to affect those aspects, you would have to show a power of the aspect that they lack working on them before saying that they can actually interact with said nonexistent aspect

Giratinas sealing stops them from using their powers, thinking and moving
They lack the spirit which is mind
Its not complicated

 

[rawXDglomp]

Does preventing someone from thinking even work on something that doesn't have a mind. Plus as far as I can see, Giratina has to throw Lavos into the distortion world and he resists being BFR'd.

Schala has a mind and her mind 'fused' with Lavos's. For her mind to fuse with his, he'd need to have a mind. So he's not mindless. Even his profile mentions this and him having emotions and such from Schala, not seeing why you think he's mindless.

 

[Jinsye]

Then Pokemon also applies, except it would have millions of layers as the Extralink is needed for travel between Save Files, while normal tech can travel across Infinite universes as well as there being many locations which connect to infinite universes

There's a difference between multiple infinite multiverses and a realm that is beyond the space and time of the multiverse altogether.

 

[theultimate5105]

There's a difference between multiple infinite multiverses and a realm that is beyond the space and time of the multiverse altogether.

No there is zero difference

 

[StrymULTRA]

Giratina never started with Sealing + Lavos can just devour Giratina's concept, as its first move is literally devouring dreams on the opponent, and Dreams are literally Type 1 concepts which make everything in Chrono.

Lavos is also haxed enough to counter everything else Giratina has.

I literally don't see at all how Giratina is winning as Lavos' first move is literally one-shotting the opponent via hax. He's used to literally eat 2-A sized structures.

 

[TheGreatJedi13]

Giratinas sealing stops them from using their powers, thinking and moving
They lack the spirit which is mind
Its not complicated

again Lavos nonexistence makes it so that having a mind or spirit is irrelevant for him to use his powers

No there is zero difference

prove there is zero difference
when we literally have BDE type 0 to categorize character that is beyond Space-time but not superior to it all together

 

[StrymULTRA]

Literally this convo is irrelevant as Lavos straight up uses a Type 1 Concept Erasure on a 2-A scale right off the bat, and Giratina has 0 ways to get out of that.

 

[Ego]

What does the true form lead with?

Because we never seen it in combat so shouldn't it be SBA rules to assume what it leads with?

 

[StrymULTRA]

What does the true form lead with?

Because we never seen it in combat so shouldn't it be SBA rules to assume what it leads with?

Same as avatar without a direct showing.

The fact it attacks only through the avatar doesn't help either.

 

[Ego]

Same as avatar without a direct showing.

The fact it attacks only through the avatar doesn't help either.

Arceus avatar in the anime leads with elemental spams

True form lead with sealing via sealing giratina

The avatar and the true forms have different fighting styles

 

[StrymULTRA]

Arceus avatar in the anime leads with elemental spams

True form lead with sealing via sealing giratina

The avatar and the true forms have different fighting styles

Giratina is not Arceus though.

 

[Ego]

Giratina is not Arceus though.

True forms and avatar forms acts differently

True form giratina isn't different from true form Arceus where giratina would start spamming dragon pulse or magic coat or toxic

 

[StrymULTRA]

Prove me what True Form Giratina starts with then.

Otherwise we go from simplest assumption where it behaves like Avatar.

Not that it matter as Lavos' starting move instantly nulls anything Giratina can do.

 

[Ego]

Prove me what True Form Giratina starts with then.

Otherwise we go from simplest assumption where it behaves like Avatar.

Not that it matter as Lavos' starting move instantly nulls anything Giratina can do.

Giratina literally has it's own conceptual sealing and I thought we have always established that giratina leads with sealing

 

[StrymULTRA]

Giratina literally has it's own conceptual sealing

Literally worked only with avatars + you can't prove is instantaneous.

I thought we have always established that giratina leads with sealing

"We" who? Giratina always uses energy blasts in almost every media it is in.

 

[Ego]

Literally worked only with avatars + you can't prove is instantaneous.

"We" who? Giratina always uses energy blasts in almost every media it is in.

The avatar sealed the avatars in the distortion world

Why wouldn't the true form be able to seal the true forms of dialga and palkia if it's avatars can do that

And every other giratina thread about final fantasy we had giratina leading with sealing

Hell giratina sealed dialga and palkia when it was bloodlust

 

[StrymULTRA]

Why wouldn't the true form be able to seal the true forms of dialga and palkia if it's avatars can do that

NLF

And every other giratina thread about final fantasy we had giratina leading with sealing

Then that's wrong

Hell giratina sealed dialga and palkia when it was bloodlust

Irrelevant against Lavos anyways.

 

[Ego]

NLF

Then that's wrong

Irrelevant against Lavos anyways.

Explain how that's NLF

And how is it irrelevant to lavos?