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Tchernobog VS The Lich

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Tchernobog punches him in the face.

Time rewinds for The Lich

Repeat until Tchernobog dies.

The Lich becomes his new host, since he has no resistance, and now the blood character stomps.
 
So

The guy who killed Tchern is getting mopped by Lich

But

Tchern takes over Lich.

Or at least possesses him, probably can't get past mind manip resistance.

Is this incon or a win for Tchern or a win for Lich, I have no idea.
 
May or may not depend on whether or not Lich actually gets to the point of killing him in the first place.

Reason I say that is because, hours after making this match, I realize Tcher has like three ways of demolishing him before he can really do anything, and one only requires a thought.
 
Again, destroying Lich means Lich comes back via time hax. Not to mention Lich's regen.

In my eyes, while it is possible Tchernabog doesn't get grabbed and dragged into Bullet Hell, I find it unlikely he'll manage to dodge it for a week. So it's a question of if Tchernabog's possession beats Lich's passive time-hax resurrection.

Additionally, how good is Tchernabog's possession? Because Lich does resist being mind controlled. Maybe not possessed, but that's not the bad bit, that's just Tchernabog residing within Lich's body.
 
I know about the timehax resurrection. I'm saying that Tchernobog vaporizing the Lich every time they reset really doesn't leave room for the latter to do much.

I dunno how mind control resistance stops someone from taking over your body and soul, but Tchernobog's possession (or at least the one that happens upon his death) is effectively "my entire essence replaces yours and you become me". He has another one which may be closer to mental, which he used in order to temporarily seize control of some cultist in the opening cutscene. But that was only ever show affecting one guy.

Tchernobog also has his own form of BFR where he teleports you into a bottomless chasm, also. So that may be a factor as well.
 
Lich just teleports back to Bullet Hell for the BFR thing.

Mind Control resistance keeps Tchernabog from controlling Lich. Unless Tchernabog has vastly superior ability to control people (i.e., it working on people who otherwise resist mind control, or controlling a vastly higher amount of people).

And timehax works outside of Lich's own actions. Killing him means he is resurrected by Kaliber.
 
I need to stop debating on my own threads...

The last part still wasn't my point. My point was, even if he's brought back with timehax, is there a way he prevents himself from being vaporized by Tcher long enough to actually kill the latter?
 
Summons and guns, really. It's the same deal as Caleb, the idea here is that Lich's survivability is being used to eventually wear down Tchern, meaning he might win match after match but can't surpass Lich's resurrection. Lich has the range to feasibly attack and hit Tchern at least several times before he dies, what with Danmaku overwhelming him with sheer volume of attacks.

TL;DR, yes.
 
Caleb doesn't have a way to wipe out several targets at once, though.

Against a large group of summons (and the Lich himself), Tchernobog could just do this:

"In the Hall of the Epiphany, a temple that spans the chasm between the worlds, the four remaining Chosen stand at the forefront of a procession of worshippers. Tchernobog's presence is felt more than seen-the great, frigid weight of a hunger that spans millennia. He speaks in a cacophony of voices stolen from the dead, summoning the Chosen to the center of the sacrificial ring. They stand before the Dark God, united by a sudden, inexplicable sense of doom.
A wordless cry rises up from the seething shadows, one voice swallowed up by many until the hall resounds with them. The members of the procession behind the Chosen melt away in a gust of ethereal wind, extinguished like so many candle flames. There aren't even ashes to indicate they ever existed.''
~ Blood manual, The Story So Far​
What stops him from doing this over and over every time the battle is reset?

EDIT: Also, if time is reset, shouldn't any damage Tchernobog takes be reversed as well? Or does it not work that way for some reason?
 
Actually the game isn't clear on if time is reset for them outside the Gungeon. It is never implied, just the Gungeon itself, but it really isn't talked about. I assume not.

But, let's be generous, assume Tchernobog constantly one-shots and Lich never even once gets a chance to attack. In this case, this would effectively be Incon,- neither can permanently put down the other.
 
Pretty sure that the reset works on everyone. It reset the gungeoneers, it replenishes the ranks of the Gundeads, resurrects the bosses etc
 
Yeah but that's all Gungeon. The Gungeon itself is a sort of pocket dimension that just appeared. The real world might be a different thing. If Kaliber is resetting time on a universal scale we might have some issues.
 
I mean we don't really know if Kaliber does stuff at all outside of the Gungeon.

I always kind of assumed that battles against the Lich start in a neutral area of the Gungeon or something, otherwise the fight wouldn't work
 
I mean the fight does work

SBA says it is within Central Park, upon dying one assumes Lich is back to Bullet Hell (time rewound for him) and drags enemy in, forcing them to fight his armies again and all that.

But yeah I guess it makes sense. I'm not convinced that time hax affects outside world, but I can't really conclusively prove that.

So, for now, my vote is Incon. Neither has a method of defeating the other forever unless the Lich happens to get lucky enough to get through Tchern and hit him with a ton of Danmaku.
 
Lich can't be controlled. EDIT: Unless they have a much higher brand of mind control.
 
Okay.

Tchern takes control of his soul and body and does what with it.

Again, this is assuming this ever comes into play with Lich being at a severe disadvantage.
 
... ugh... Whatever villain stuff Tchern is into

Okay yeah that's fair, he might not take a body this weak. At least if his villany makes any sense.
 
Mr. Bambu said:
Okay. Tchern takes control of his soul and body and does what with it.
Click to expand...
The body then becomes the next incarnation of Tchernobog.

Again said:
Okay yeah that's fair, he might not take a body this weak. At least if his villany makes any sense.
Click to expand...
I think he meant that the Lich wouldn't have a chance to kill him in order for that to even become an option. What with Tchernobog being able to just sort of wipe him and his minions out with a thought.
 
So it is the next incarnation of Tchern with the Lich in control of the mind.

Okay. So Tchern is in the backseat.
 
Not...really? If Tcher possesses him, the Lich's soul is getting replaced with Tcher's essence, same as everyone else the being ever possessed. (barring Caleb)

Unless the Lich's mind can just exist on its own without a soul, in which case...wat?
 
That is something of an interesting predicament. Lich's mind is his but his soul is replaced by Tchern.

I'm not entirely sure what would happen. If Tchern tried to escape the role of the Lich (that is, residing in Bullet Hell and remaining there), then Kaliber hops in and punishes him. If not, and he just sits there, then... that would be weird.

Still, I doubt it comes up due to Lich's significant disadvantages.
 
>The next incarnation of Tchernobog, stuck acting as a replacement for the Lich.

That's...

Okay, that's kind of funny.
 
Anyhoo. I'm betting Incon for this as a TL;DR. Tchern cannot permanently put down Lich and Lich just "lolnopes" damage because of his curse from Kaliber.
 
I'll bump this thing too why not.
 
Inconclusive para razones delante de este frase
 
Wok I don't speak Swahili please
 
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