• An important announcement about how to solve problems with your discussion thread notifications, and other important issues.

    Please click here for further information.
  • Important information regarding the linking of images from Fandom wikis.

    Please click here for further information.
  • Important information regarding upcoming advertisements in this forum.

    Please click here for further information.
4,615
334
Speed is = and both are town level. Both are in character and are fighting in the ruins of jaku hospital

Syndrome:

Deku: 7

Icon:

 
Last edited:
3,122
739
Looking at their profiles, thus Deku has to be 7-C with 45% in his Paranormal Liberation War Arc Key for this to not be a Tier Stomp.
Where WITHIN 7-C, I dunno. 7-C has a high-end to low-end ratio of ~17.5x, so the difference could matter substatiantally.

Do they have their optional equipment, Syndrome's Omnidroid V.9 especially?
Anyway, Syndrome, with Zero Point Energy, is Class 50 Lifting Strength, which peaks at 50,000 kg. Deku's relevant key says, for his Lifting Strength, in part: Class M with 30% (Far superior to the strength of his 20%. Barely managed to momentarily yank Shigaraki), higher with 45% (Able to fully restrain Shigaraki),

Class M Lifting Strength BEGINS with 1,000,000 kg, & ends at 1,000,000,000 kg. & Deku's gey is "higher" in the only form (45%) that matches Syndrome in Tier.
At a MINIMUM, Deku's Lifting Strength is 20 times higher than Syndrome's! More than that easily.

So yeah. Where in 7-C are their AP, Striking Strength & Durability? Because unless Syndrome can throw a lot of things at Deku at once so Deku can't hold all of them (Hands can only fit/grip so much at one time to prevent them smacking his face.) Deku can just yeet Syndrome's projectiles back at him.

Possibly just break or tear off Syndrome's gear, if that's in-character for Deku to do, thus severely disadvantaging him.... If he can get close enough.
There's also the question of if Syndrome's ZPE could prevent Deku from moving, I guess.

Anyway, depending on where their stats fall, Syndrome may be in trouble without the Omnidroid's help, & WITH the Omnidroid's help, he might still struggle.
So what are those stats?
 
3,122
739
@Spinoirr
Ah. Checking, it looks like Syndrome scales to harming Mr. Incredible, albeit, via flinging him around with Zero Point Energy (But he could probably just throw things at Deku.) , & Mr. Incredible was superior to Hypershock, who could make Magnitude 6 Earthquake, which is 15.0802413958 Kilotons
Same goes for the Omnidroid.

So Syndrome gets his optional Equipment (The Omnidroid V.9)?
Does Deku scale below or above the Air Cannon? Because Syndrome & the Omnidroid seem to scale to hurting someone who was above a rating roughly 2.39 times higher than the Air Cannon.
 
4,615
334
He did live getting blasted by it and was fine and even used black whip after to tug shigaraki away from his teacher before he could claw his face off
 
17,900
960
The omnidroid serves as a distraction for Deku as he has to focus on two targets at once and the Omnidroid, as we know, is very persistent and deadly. The only way Mr. Incredible, who is stronger than Deku, could hurt the Omnidroid was by using it against itself iirc. which Deku might not think to do rigjt away.

Deku has less range and all Syndrome has to do is hit him with his energy beam thing to paralyze and then proceed to ragdoll him until he dies.
 
3,122
739
The omnidroid serves as a distraction for Deku as he has to focus on two targets at once and the Omnidroid, as we know, is very persistent and deadly. The only way Mr. Incredible, who is stronger than Deku, could hurt the Omnidroid was by using it against itself iirc. which Deku might not think to do rigjt away.

Deku has less range and all Syndrome has to do is hit him with his energy beam thing to paralyze and then proceed to ragdoll him until he dies.
I assume that's also true of the Omnidroid V.9? (IIRC, it's not the strongest version.)
But yeah. It sort of feels like Deku's only chance is his range, & that's without the Omnidroid helping Syndrome, I guess.

Omnidroid is Optional Equipment, so restrict it, I guess?
 
Last edited:
1,672
280
Assuming Syndrome has the Omnidroid:

Deku can one shot Syndrome with any attack from range with his air pressure or black whip, and will be able to out think the Omnidroid similar to how Mr. Incredible did given time. He will have an even easier time doing this in fact due to being able to fly, as well as having Analytical Prediction to predict when the Omnidroid is going to try and hit him. His analytical skills will also have him figure out Syndrome has the remote to the Omnidroid, which will make beating it even easier. Syndrome's zero point energy is countered by Deku's mobility and experience with laser like attacks from Nine, as well as his intelligence and planning.

The air cannon calced for AFO was done casually, while Shigaraki's was done while he was in a rage and going all out. Deku not only survived it, but tanked the hit point blank with little to no injury and shrugged off any effects from it in milliseconds to still catch Shigaraki leaping away with his black whip. So given the AP difference between the air cannon and syndrome is not even 2x, hits from either Syndrome or the Omnidroid won't effect Deku much given his immense pain tolerance and stamina. Deku can launch dozens of attacks with already broken limbs and ignore all pain operating as if at peak condition, so getting tossed a couple of times from attacks around his own AP aren't going to do much.

Voting Midoriya for inevitably figuring out Syndrome's remote/the Omnidroids weakness, being fully capable of one shotting Syndrome from range, having superior mobility via flight + analytical prediction to avoid attacks from Syndrome's zero point energy and his superior stamina that lets him take any hit these two can dish out and keep going.
 
Can Deku overcome the Paralysis Inducement in any way or avoid the Telekinesis
If he can Deku mid Low Diffs syndrome.
Via Superior Fighting Skill and Syndromes bad physical Durability far better stamina and the very small AP gap.
As well as more versatility.
 
1,672
280
He can't break out of it despite his LS advantage, but it relies on Syndrome actually hitting him with it. Deku has tons of experience with attacks like that from people like Nine, and he can predict whenever Syndrome tries to point at him.

Even Mr. Incredible was able to dodge the zero point energy when he was not off guard, and Deku has far higher intelligence feats than him.

For reference, Deku can predict the attacks and movements of people that can blitz him, let alone are equal to him.
 
He can't break out of it despite his LS advantage, but it relies on Syndrome actually hitting him with it. Deku has tons of experience with attacks like that from people like Nine, and he can predict whenever Syndrome tries to point at him.

Even Mr. Incredible was able to dodge the zero point energy when he was not off guard, and Deku has far higher intelligence feats than him.

For reference, Deku can predict the attacks and movements of people that can blitz him, let alone are equal to him.
Then Deku claps he just has too many edges here even the toll of 45% likely doesn’t matter here Unless you plug a controller into the characters and make Deku fight stupid here he takes this

he has my vote
 
Last edited:
3,122
739
Assuming Syndrome has the Omnidroid:

Deku can one shot Syndrome with any attack from range with his air pressure or black whip, and will be able to out think the Omnidroid similar to how Mr. Incredible did given time. He will have an even easier time doing this in fact due to being able to fly, as well as having Analytical Prediction to predict when the Omnidroid is going to try and hit him. His analytical skills will also have him figure out Syndrome has the remote to the Omnidroid, which will make beating it even easier. Syndrome's zero point energy is countered by Deku's mobility and experience with laser like attacks from Nine, as well as his intelligence and planning.

The air cannon calced for AFO was done casually, while Shigaraki's was done while he was in a rage and going all out. Deku not only survived it, but tanked the hit point blank with little to no injury and shrugged off any effects from it in milliseconds to still catch Shigaraki leaping away with his black whip. So given the AP difference between the air cannon and syndrome is not even 2x, hits from either Syndrome or the Omnidroid won't effect Deku much given his immense pain tolerance and stamina. Deku can launch dozens of attacks with already broken limbs and ignore all pain operating as if at peak condition, so getting tossed a couple of times from attacks around his own AP aren't going to do much.

Voting Midoriya for inevitably figuring out Syndrome's remote/the Omnidroids weakness, being fully capable of one shotting Syndrome from range, having superior mobility via flight + analytical prediction to avoid attacks from Syndrome's zero point energy and his superior stamina that lets him take any hit these two can dish out and keep going.
Syndrome also has flight, & the Omnidroid itself also has Analytical Prediction.
Also, if Deku thinks to try & take the remote (It could be believed it may be stolen tech or be valuable for furthering science or he may see merit to having the remote himself, like controlling the Omnidroid....)

Intelligence: High. The Omnidroid was designed to kill any Super and can come up with strategies to counter an opponent within seconds of engaging them, as well as having an adaptive AI that would be implanted into the next Omnidroid model if the inferior version was destroyed. It is even capable of turning on whoever has its remote control.

So again, there's several reasons Deku could end up taking the remote, which just wouldn't work out. Said intelligence section pointing out that it makes strategies to kill any Supers it finds within seconds and its own analytical prediction makes me question if Deku COULD outthink it, especially with Syndrome fighting him, too.

The 6.3 kiloton Air Cannon is Deku's feat or Shigaraki's? What's the reasoning Shigaraki's barely hurt Deku?

Also, what do you mean Syndrome is not even 2 times? He was able to regularly damage Mr. Incredible, someone who scaled above 15 kilotons. Again, that's ABOVE about 2.39 times higher than the air cannon's (Deku's or Shigaraki's?) yield that Deku's scaling to.

Also, Pain Tolerance might let you keep fighting but it's not good to receive injuries, especially when one of your opponents is prone to making you 100% immobile; A single hit & Deku's out. Plus the damage from using 45%.

& yes, he can dodge Syndrome's beams, but he has to do this while fighting a 4-limbed, laser shooting, rapidly adapting AI robot.

Also, there's this:

Lifting Strength: Class G for all stronger models (Can lift itself)

If the V.9 qualifies, then it outlifts Deku, since 45% is only "higher" than Class M. Meaning if the Omnidroid can grab him, he probably can't break out. & Deku, having OFA, MIGHT believe or even consider, if briefly, he can risk being grabbed to overpower it, if there's a window of opportunity, or if it's useful. For example, if the Omnidroid gets defensive & starts spamming lasers & dodging his attacks, he might think he needs to get it close to attack it, no?
Just theoretical, but the point is Deku gets pinned/crushed/torn/squeezed if the 4-limbed super AI grabs him.
 
Last edited:

Abstractions

VS Battles
Content Moderator
1,234
300
When did Mr. Incredible dodge the Zero Point Energy? I can think of him trying to get the jump on Syndrome while he monologued but failed because all Syndrome has to do is point.
 
1,672
280
I misremembered the scene, Mr. Incredible didn't dodge it directly. It should however be noted that syndrome has ONLY ever caught people when they were off guard with his zero point energy, so Deku dodging it by predicting Syndrome isn't contested.

Syndrome's flight is negated by the fact that Deku only needs a single attack to take him out of the fight completely, and if he's flying, he has nothing to hide behind. Deku's attacks take up entire city blocks, so the likelihood of Syndrome avoiding it is slim to nothing. It takes a single action from Deku to send air pressure. A finger flick, kick, punch, anything in Syndrome's general direction will KO him and leave his remote free.

The omnidroid, despite its intelligence, is still controlled by the remote. So if Deku gets the remote, regardless of how smart it is, it will be incredibly hampered and defeated. And as for its design to kill supers, there isn't much it can do that Deku himself can't also counter. The omnidroid is designed to kill the supers that have already beaten it, not new ones on the fly. In fact, it loses specifically because of that, as improvisation is its biggest weakness. Not to mention Deku has already experienced enemies that adapt to his movements, so adjusting in order to survive is something he's accustomed to doing already, especially when the conditions he needs to adjust are incredibly simple given his mobility.

Shigaraki has All For One's quirk, which allows him use his Air Cannon quirk. A casual use of this quirk by a weakened All For One was 6.3 kilotons.

Shigaraki used this not casually and point blank at Deku. He was unfazed by it, so his durability is higher than 6.3 by quite a bit. You're right, on a base level, its over 2x, but that difference is not at all accounting for how Deku scales above that attack. It goes AFO 6.3 casual blast < Shigaraki all out blast < did nothing to < Deku. That should justify bringing down that ap gap, which itself isn't super impressive when dealing with a character with pain tolerance like Deku, even further, which means less damage.

Pain tolerance lets Deku fight regardless of the damage he takes to a certain point. Unless he is getting constantly battered over and over for several minutes straight, he is not going to be weakened combat wise. You bring up 45% taxing his body, yet as he has proven, it does nothing to how he fights or his stamina. In fact, due to the adrenaline of being at 45% and taking damage, he just ignores damage even more. It was at 45% that he broke every single one of his limbs, then proceeded to keep fighting with those limbs, breaking them again, over and over, dozens of times, with no signs of stopping other than the worry from his friends.

"A single hit and he's out" <- no he is not. That is exactly what his pain tolerance and stats prevent. The Omnidroid could hit him over the head several times and he will not go down because of this. He is literally a pain absorber. If he can withstand and stay conscious from breaking all of his limbs dozens of times over, he can withstand being hit by attacks that are barely 2x his dura.

Deku can fly above the Omnidroid to avoid its attacks, as well as having tons of experience with avoiding attacks similar to the Omnidroid in the form of Overhaul, and all he needs to do is launch a single attack in Syndrome's direction to take him out of the fight completely and get his remote. If he flies back from the both of them, or even after he analyzes what Syndrome is capable of with his zero point energy, he can retaliate with air pressure to instantly take Syndrome out of the fight. If it is just Deku vs the Omnidroid, he can easily figure out to attack it with itself and the Omnidroid doesn't have on the fly analytical prediction like he does.

Deku doesn't need to contest the Omnidroid in lifting strength when he can fly around it to take out Syndrome and disable it with the remote. He grapples at range with Black Whip, so he never needs to go in close to it to figure out it has higher lifting strength than him, and that defeating Syndrome, if he hasn't already, is more optimal.
 
1,672
280
And by the omnidroid not having analytical prediction, it is in reference to how Deku uses it on the fly to construct instant plans to combat his opponents plans. The omnidroid of course can analyze and predict situations, but Deku's form of the ability is far more useful in this combat since he has a far easier win condition and doesn't have to brute force punch the Omnidroid until it falls. He constantly shifts how he fights during fights, so if anything it will be a test of the Omnidroids ai rather than his skill since the Omnidroid has never encountered someone with analysis skills like Deku has to our knowledge.
 

Abstractions

VS Battles
Content Moderator
1,234
300
I misremembered the scene, Mr. Incredible didn't dodge it directly. It should however be noted that syndrome has ONLY ever caught people when they were off guard with his zero point energy, so Deku dodging it by predicting Syndrome isn't contested.
Mr. Incredible wasn't caught off guard, Syndrome was the one caught off guard and he still caught Bob with it. It just goes to show he doesn't need much effort to catch people with it.

I don't disagree with the majority of your post, just commenting on this bit.
 
1,672
280
Mr. Incredible didn't know he had that ability at that point, and he never has used it against someone else with the opportunity to dodge it that knew of it. So i'd count it as off guard for not knowing of it
 
2,593
90
Mr Incredible threw a tree at him and proceeded to start charging, focused on him. Syndrome was able to dodge and still get him with it. I don't think i would classify Mr Incredible as off guard in that moment
 

Abstractions

VS Battles
Content Moderator
1,234
300
Mr. Incredible didn't know he had that ability at that point, and he never has used it against someone else with the opportunity to dodge it that knew of it. So i'd count it as off guard for not knowing of it
Nobody in the film has ever dodged it, even at the point where he knew he had it when the barged in on him with Jack Jack. Him using it to disable others is far cry from him just using it for blasts, so I personally don't see evidence for Deku being able to dodge it, granted the amount of ease it takes for him to use it. (Just has to point his fingers)

Mind you he's used it in a large area, he's stopped a truck with in mid-air before effortlessly.
 
1,672
280
When he barged in on Jack Jack, he was off guard. He wasn't expecting Syndrome to be there, and got hit with it the instant he opened the door.

Deku has been able to analyze things far harder than someone pointing at him, and being stopped doesn't prevent him from thinking or reacting the instant he's out.

So let's say Syndrome catches Deku in zero point energy. The instant he drops it after throwing Deku, which he always does as a part of his attacks, Deku can just launch a kick at Syndrome and knock him out with the aoe of his air pressure. Or he could kick away with float, predicting Syndrome to use the ability again before he uses it, then blast him with air pressure.

Essentially, while Syndrome is fully capable of catching him, Deku's analytical prediction and intelligence will allow him to act near instantly when out of the zero point energy, and either knock Syndrome out quickly with air pressure or dodge out of the way from subsequent attacks until he uses air pressure.

Deku is not at all new to attacks that orignate from a single gesture from the opponent. In fact, I believe he knows of at least 10 characters whose abilites are simply point and shoot, so this isn't anything he won't understand or analyze how to deal with. The fact that Deku can predict the movements and plans of characters faster than him as well, such as Gran Torino, is another benefit for him not getting hit by Syndrome more times than necessary.

Also Syndrome is a bragger, he's more liable to toss Deku around more than necessary than finish him off quickly. Which gives Deku more time to analyze his movements and predict them before they happen.
 

Abstractions

VS Battles
Content Moderator
1,234
300
When he barged in on Jack Jack, he was off guard. He wasn't expecting Syndrome to be there, and got hit with it the instant he opened the door.
Yeah but there's still no evidence for them being able to dodge it because no character in the film has.
Deku has been able to analyze things far harder than someone pointing at him, and being stopped doesn't prevent him from thinking or reacting the instant he's out.
He can analyze all he wants but that doesn't ever change the ease of Syndrome's ability, he needs to find a way around it but dodging it directly is simply a no.

Essentially, while Syndrome is fully capable of catching him, Deku's analytical prediction and intelligence will allow him to act near instantly when out of the zero point energy, and either knock Syndrome out quickly with air pressure or dodge out of the way from subsequent attacks until he uses air pressure.
Happy you acknowledged that yes, Syndrome can catch Deku. But I made no commentary on the fight as a whole, in fact, I agree that Deku has it easier because Syndrome is so frail by comparison. I was just pointing out the only problem I had with your argument.
 
1,672
280
Oh, well my argument was never that he can’t catch Deku. Just that Deku has the tools to not get caught or just KO Syndrome so he doesn’t have to worry about getting caught.
 
3,122
739
Durability: Human level
Somehow I missed that about Syndrome.
That said, not all of Deku's attacks are huge range.

Range: Standard melee range, up to Tens of kilometers with One For All (Can generate air blasts of varying force and range depending on the power output. Comparable to All Might with 100%) | Standard melee range, up to Tens of kilometers with One For All, Tens of meters with Blackwhip (Can cover part of a city block) | Same as before

"Unless he is getting constantly battered over and over for several minutes straight, he is not going to be weakened combat wise." You think he won't be constantly attacked fighting a point & paralyze beam user & his 4-limbed adaptive AI robot?
When I said "a single hit & he's out", I meant from Zero Point Energy. & the Omnidroid itself can also fly.
Syndrome meanwhile, is experienced for reaearching & kiling a variety of heroes, & this likely extends to his Omnidroid.
Also, how do you mean it doesn't have "on the fly analytical prediction"? Speed is equalized. Are you saying the robot can't compute & fight at the same time? And as said, the Omnidroid is smart enough to know to betray those with the remote. It's probably smart enough to realize Deku is targeting Syndrome & his remote & exploit that.
Also, can't the Omnidroid also play ranged, too, via its plasma rifle? Deku also doesn't know the flying, geared up Syndrome is a glass cannon so he may not prioritize him.
 
3,122
739
So let's say Syndrome catches Deku in zero point energy. The instant he drops it after throwing Deku, which he always does as a part of his attacks, Deku can just launch a kick at Syndrome and knock him out with the aoe of his air pressure. Or he could kick away with float, predicting Syndrome to use the ability again before he uses it, then blast him with air pressure.

Essentially, while Syndrome is fully capable of catching him, Deku's analytical prediction and intelligence will allow him to act near instantly when out of the zero point energy, and either knock Syndrome out quickly with air pressure or dodge out of the way from subsequent attacks until he uses air pressure.

Deku is not at all new to attacks that orignate from a single gesture from the opponent. In fact, I believe he knows of at least 10 characters whose abilites are simply point and shoot, so this isn't anything he won't understand or analyze how to deal with. The fact that Deku can predict the movements and plans of characters faster than him as well, such as Gran Torino, is another benefit for him not getting hit by Syndrome more times than necessary.

Also Syndrome is a bragger, he's more liable to toss Deku around more than necessary than finish him off quickly. Which gives Deku more time to analyze his movements and predict them before they happen.
You assume Syndrome won't dodge the attack in speed equalized. & while I agree what you propose seems IC, I'd dare say there's the possibility that if Syndrome does catch Deku, odds are since Deku's been so mobile & dangerous up to this point (Presuming it has took a while.) , & this hurts Syndrome's pride, he might be mad & just have the Omnidroid pummel Deku while he's helpless.
 
1,672
280
That was in refence to him just getting hit with no way to counter attack, which he does.

Zero point energy doesn't last forever if Syndrome throws or uses it to attack, which he always does. IC Syndrome uses this solely to toss people around.

Syndrome's experience has never been shown to transfer to in combat. It is built up over years of study and scientific research, not immediately in combat against someone that can one shot him from range. Both have no feats of actual combat skill like Deku does.

The omnidroid betraying someone that is controlling it is not at all indicative of combat analysis on par with Deku. Deku has feats such as predicting the placement of invisible air barriers to accurately jump off of and bounce his air pressure off of at perfect angles. Does the Omnidroid have similar feats to that in combat? To my knowledge, it only conducts actions based on its previous knowledge of heroes, none of whom fight like Deku at all. And it knowing to target the remote doesn't mean much when Deku is able to avoid it with his far better mobility.

Also, in this case, wouldn't the Omnidroid betray Syndrome again and now he has to fight both Deku and the Omnidroid trying to take the remote? Both of whom can one shot him from range?

Deku isn't playing range with the Omnidroid, he's doing it with Syndrome to counter getting tossed with the zero point energy. He doesn't need to know it will one shot Syndrome to attempt it, but that's what will happen. All Deku needs to understand is that Syndrome is the immediate threat, as he controls the robot and can freeze him, so disrupting his attempts to freeze him is the priority. Also, the Omnidroids range is easier to avoid than Syndrome's since it has a far more obvious tell nor is its laser faster than it is.

The range of Deku's air pressure takes up entire city blocks, not just length but width wise as well, with a single kick, and he can spam it at will with high accuracy from his hands. Syndrome dodging just his basic air pressure's AoE is a shaky argument given Syndrome has no combat feats that would imply he would instantly react to air pressure coming at him, but him dodging 4 at the same time fired with Deku's skill is highly unlikely.

Syndrome won't get mad at Deku's mobility if to his knowledge Deku has no counter to his zero point energy. Until Deku launches air pressure at Syndrome, there will be no hint at all that Deku is able to overcome it, and by that time Syndrome is getting one shot.
 
1,418
153
Yeah, it's looking to be a match in Deku's favor from all the information that's listed. Cool thread, tho, I mean Syndrome and All For One have the base idea of getting rid of supers in common. The key difference is their methodologies.
 
1,672
280
What stops Syndrome from trapping him in zero point energy again?
Other than Deku’s prediction, not much.

The argument however is: what stops Deku from one shotting Syndrome the second he’s out of the zero point energy? Because Syndrome has to drop it in order to throw people.
 
Top