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Sword God vs Sword Saint (Sakaguchi Hinata (LN) vs Ikki Kurogane)

she have the same ability just different AP and equipment but that doesnt mean her capability is limited to different key, we can use her 2nd key feats since the only difference is her swords. her ability, experience, capability remains the same, thats mean she can face the threats she has shown in her 2nd key
 
Now that I think of it, Rimuru's Future Attack Prediction is basically like Almighty from Bleach which sees all possible future. I will stop derailing from the topic now lol.
 
Hinata DOES use Astral Bind in character, only in a situation where she begins to become pressured or losing is in her presence. Anyways, yeah, Hinata>Rimuru & Hakurou's Precog, Ikki doesn't resist Precog from what I can tell.

So either she 7HK's him, or Astral Bind+Disintergration GG.
 
Ok so like. Both have precog that won' fail no matter what. That just evens things out.

Ikki 1 shots her, he doesn't need 7Hits. Astral Bind was used once, absolutely not in character.
 
>When she feared the world

In character. Dude, a 1 time thing is never in character.

Yeah, but Ikki's prediction cannot be fooled. Because you cannot fool your identity. No matter how much you try, even trying to fool your identity stems from your own identity. So good luck dealing with that analytical prediction. There is a reason i said that Ikki has broken arse analytical precog, he knows everything that someone will make. Even early series like 2 clashes were enough, to get a good grasp of everything, but the more the fight goes on the more steps ahead ikki will know (example against stella he was 100 steps ahead at all times).
 
Yeah, something that would happen over time. Furthermore Rimuru has a resistance to a Soul Manipulation, so no wonder that didn't work. Again, she does it when she begins to feel pressured.

It doesn't matter, she's not fooling anyone. You just cannot predict her.
 
Milly Rocking Bandit said:
Yeah, something that would happen over time. Furthermore Rimuru has a resistance to a Soul Manipulation, so no wonder that didn't work. Again, she does it when she begins to feel pressured.
It doesn't matter, she's not fooling anyone. You just cannot predict her.
Click to expand...
So you're saying she has never been pressured in the whole novel besides that one time?

>Is unpredictable

Is literally just "you cannot predict her character", ikki literally steals your identity. So give me proof any skill based analytical prediction that hasn't worked on her is nearly as good as Ikki's who can literally predict things that the opponent has never shown including new traits, abilities, character traits etc.
 
No. She recently lost to Rimuru in the rematch, and if the WN follows the LN (but it's diverging a lot), she's gonna die in a later fight.

She can't hide her identity, but he can definitely hide her abilities.
 
She didn't use it in those fights cus?

That's what im saying doe. Her Identity gives it all. Ikki knew even about abilities a guy had not shown. If he understands her identity it literally means "know everything about the person named Sakagi".
 
Rimuru has gotten even stronger at that point, so it was useless. Plus it boiled down to just mere swordsmanship iirc after Shizu showed up. I'm not exactly sure, again, LN diverges.

But did those people resist Precognition?
 
Im just gonna drop this part i guess.

Precognition is a different ability though.

>He causality haxed them

>Oh but did they resist law hax, if not then it won't work

But then again analytical prediction and his senses precog worked on type 4 acausals so take what you will.
 
Okay, then he can definitely see her coming. But she still has Astral Bind, which she'll use the moment she gets pressured, then Disintegration or 7HK.
 
So now the main problem is can Ikki do something to ursurper? The moments Ikki use intetsu Hinata Will Steal it since she knows Ikki is dangerous, like how Hinata trying to Steal ifrit the moments Rimuru Summon him (fail because Rimuru have somewhat resistance) i don't see resistance to Power Absorption in Ikki profile.
 
Firephoenixearl said:
Ikki doesn't precog 10'000 possibilities, he predicts 1 possibility that is true. That will happen no matter what.
Click to expand...
10.000 possibilities Will cover a probability of Ikki predict a possibilities and then Ikki prediction Will be wrong, remember possibilities is not always Will happen unless Ikki have probability manipulation
 
@Milly Ikki will also see her use that though. And prevent it.

@GLHF Intetsu is literally his soul and fate being manifested as a device. She's not stealing that anytime soon without clear feats.

Stella became speechless with such an overwhelming presence.

The magic powers of the Blazers were in proportion to the size of the fate they carried on their backs.

Is that the reason we have the strength of fate as a blade?

@Rocker I know, but people wanted feats. And that was mostly for him seeing visions of the future and sensing danger from people whose future couldn't be predicted by the most powerful precog device in the series.

@GLHF What? I legit don't know what you're saying there. But the last line is wrong. Possibilities is not always will happen, i know, but unless it's in Ikki's case. I will just let Ikki do the talking here.

Everything about this match was packed into those details. As if perusing the history of its fencing from the sword style technique, derive the enemy's process from the order and direction. As if collecting the school's knowledge from its swordsmanship, reverse-engineer the position from the injuries and angle. As if stealing the principles of its invention from its tricks, expose the patterns of thinking from the words and the voice. And then from everything there, investigating the previous degree of piercing's tendency, the personality, technique, design, by integrating, analyzing, understanding, exhausting data on all kinds of things―grasp everything about the person called Shizuya Kirihara!

There was no reason he couldn't do it. It wasn't difficult. Because all along, since long ago, Ikki Kurogane had fought that way!

In that instant, the arrow shot from Oborotsuki bit into Ikki. The place it pierced… was not the crown of the head, but the heart. Yes, Kirihara had set a trap into the last blow with a Hunter's composure and cool-headedness. His opponent was already in a hopeless situation, but just in case none of the injuries had occurred, he had shot an arrow at Ikki's heart while saying he was aiming at Ikki's head. A feint in addition to invisibility, his attack permitted no evasion. And exactly as the Hunter planned, the invisible killing intent pierced Ikki's heart―

"…Oh?"

That sound spilled out from Shizuya Kirihara's mouth at the inexplicable sight before him, and his mind went blank. He had sent an arrow of certain death that couldn't be avoided or blocked, but―Ikki's left hand had grabbed it, stopping it on the verge of penetrating Ikki's chest.

"H-How…."

How was it possible? Did such a thing really happen? To the astonished Hunter who was confronting a reality beyond his comprehension, his red-soaked prey coughed and said―


"…As I thought, there's no way you'd tell me the truth."


"What… are you saying―!?"

In that moment, Kirihara shuddered as if a worm had burrowed into his back. Ikki's eyes, without the slightest wandering, were staring him down even though he should be imperceptible.

"It… can't be…."

He had never experienced this, and icy sweat was pouring from all over his body. A chill crept up his spine, and his limbs trembled with a clatter. In Kirihara's swaying field of vision―

"…Yeah, I caught it. And I won't let you get away again."

―the bloodstained knight before him laughed weakly.

ÒÇîW-W-What happened―!? Contender Kurogane just caught the arrow that he shouldn't be able to see! What the heck is going on!? Even I, reporting live on location, still can't find Contender Kirihara! Area Invisible, the perfect stealth, is still going strong, but the images from our camera are being delivered now… and they reveal that Contender Kurogane reacted to the arrow flying at him! Is he seeing what we can't!?ÒÇì

ÒÇîAha, wahahaha! Are you serious!? That guy really did it!ÒÇì

Saikyou, who was also giving commentary to the arena, abruptly clapped her hands and gave a resounding laugh.

ÒÇîSaikyou-sensei? Did you just figure something out!?ÒÇì

ÒÇîHeh heh heh…! Yeah, I figured it out. It's exactly as it looks. Area Invisible is already useless.ÒÇì

Kirihara countered Saikyou's words reflexively.

"D-Don't be ridiculous! My Area Invisible is unbeatable! There's no way this F-Rank garbage has seen through it!"

ÒÇîAhaha. Yeah, that's right. That's also what I think. Kiri-yan's Area Invisible is the strongest Noble Art against individual fighters. It's fine to be confident about it, because after all, Area Invisible can't be seen through. The thing that's been seen through is… the Hunter himself.ÒÇì

"What the hell does that mean!?"

ÒÇîOh goodness, you're exceptionally dull, aren't you Kiri-yan? Haven't you seen the fight between the princess and Kuro-bou? At that time, Kuro-bou saw and stole the princess's Imperial Arts, but stealing a sword technique isn't an ordinary feat like imitating a style. From something like a style or swordsmanship, the accumulated history is studied, taking the ideas arrived there, and exposing and returning with the principle of its foundation. That's what we call stealing a sword technique. And just now, he did the same exact thing to you. During the fight, he stole the person called Shizuya Kirihara. Isn't that right, Kuro-bou?ÒÇì

At Saikyou's nonsensical words―

"Eh, well. It was something like that."

Ikki affirmed her analysis with a nod. He had employed his anti-personnel technique, Blade Steal, against Kirihara.

"R-Ridiculous! How can something like that happen!? Especially since I must have been invisible to you…!"

"I didn't see you, but knowing 'where Kirihara-kun is right now' isn't that difficult, because you've left a lot of clues, you know?"

"Clues…?"

"The wounds you've put on me. Your procedure from the sequence of wounds I took. Your direction from the angles. And the distance from the power. They all tell me where you are. Tracing the Hunter's position at any particular moment is easy if I follow these markers, and if I understand that much, it's the same as being able to see you. In that case, it's fine to do what I usually do. Whether it's sword technique or people, there's a principle that fundamentally governs all their actions. You can call it a system of values. By using that―the person's actions and plans, what that person is thinking right now, how I myself should move, what countermeasures should be taken, whether to move forward or draw back, to attack or defend―every possible action is completely and quite clearly predictable. For example, at this moment, I know that you've taken three steps back."

Kirihara's body froze in fright at Ikki's light declaration, and he leaked out a soundless shriek, because what Ikki had said was unmistakably true. But of course Ikki could know Kirihara's response. The principle he spoke of wasn't a notion limited to the here and now. That predictability of human thought was a firmly-rooted identity, not something that could be changed in an instant. However much the person himself wants to outsmart that identity, even the thought of outsmarting it arises from the identity itself, and therefore couldn't escape Ikki's perception. By stealing the opponent's identity, Ikki seized all those thoughts and feelings.

If Ikki had to name this technique, it would be Perfect Vision. Before its power, Kirihara finally understood. The true dreadfulness of the knight called Ikki Kurogane wasn't sword technique, a one-minute boost, or anything else like that. It was his ability to expose and reflect the true nature of everything he sees, a discerning eye like a shining magic mirror. That mirror could capture even the invisible Hunter. Therefore―

"I see everything you're capable of doing. In this match, I'll take the win!"

With that declaration, Ikki burst forward to thrust a fang at the Hunter who had lost his refuge!

Every resistance was already meaningless. Like a superior player who predicts a hundred moves ahead, Ikki had already seen the endgame!
 
So is there anything better than that?, predicting Hundreds move ahead is still below 10.000 and 10.000 is still below quantum computer and quantum computer is still below Raphael and Hinata can somewhat makes Rimuru having hard Times when fought her, Hinata have both soul manip and power Absorption and Ikki doesnt have Resistance to those so its only obvious for Hinata can Steal intetsu without any problem.
 
100 ahead is not below 10000 in the present boy.

@Milky

Acausality is literally resistance but better as it's immunity. And he could precog that. Stop with the wank of "precoging the identity doesn't mean much cus she's unpredictable". Her mind is unpredictable, show me cases of her fooling her own identity then start arguing unpredictability.
 
I never said anything like that, I said if it's not acasuality based, then she can resist that. As I stated earlier, I never said she could hide her mind, but her abilities and movements, sure.
 
Can you explain? How Ikki prediction is better than Raphael? Anyway Hinata Intelligence in battle is Comparable to Rimuru's Great Sage so even if its still below Raphael its still better than Ikki.

I vote Hinata via Usurper and Melt slash

The moments Hinata use Usurper or Melt slash i don't think Ikki analytical prediction can see it since Ikki precog is SKILL BASED and his Info anlys cannot see unused skill which mean he cannot know all of Hinata abilities, while Hinata pretty much know everything about Ikki with a mere stare
 
Acausals is immunity to anything that relies on causality. Ikki's analytical prediction is not causality based but behavioural based thus regardless of acaduality it would still work logically. Essentially it is a bypass to acausality. You can not scale it above because it is not like it is beaching immunity.
 
Yeah at first i was also confused of how Hinata precog work on Rimuru but latter i realize that analytical prediction is not Hax but combat skill.
 
Also, who has the AP advantage? Hinata>Celestial Sages>Sages>=<Clayman>=>Rimuru>Orc Disaster>Kijin Group>Ranga's Death Storm (1.4 Gigatons)>Baseline.
 
@Glhf and milly

That's false she cannot hide anything. Ikki knows even about secret moves from a mere stance let alone from using perfect vision. He will know.

Also usurped gets blitzed.
 
Thats because the secret move he know is just technique Ikki already know that before since he know every martial art, while Hinata Ursurper and melt slash is Hax and thought based.
 
GLHF22 said:
Thats because the secret move he know is just technique Ikki already know that before since he know every martial art, while Hinata Ursurper and melt slash is Hax and thought based.
Click to expand...
That was not martial arts. It was arrow noble arts like multiplication, giantification etc.
 
Because Ikki does have prior knowledge to that if Hinata do nothing Ikki cant know her abilities while for Hinata even if Ikki doesnt do anything she Will know everything about him.
 
Hinata:

  • More experience
  • 7HK
  • Precog, as well as a resistance
  • A way to paralyze Ikki if needed
  • Willing to kill if necessary
  • Biological+Soul Destruction
  • Power Absorption
 
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