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Supernatural
- Thread starter Heatforce
- Start date
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The AoE Fallacy is when someone ultilizes the collateral damage caused or not caused by an attack as evidence for their power.
For instance: One could say that Goku isn't Universe level due to the fact that he never destroyed a universe with his Kamehameha.
However, this is fiction, and attacks can often by focused on their target.
For instance: One could say that Goku isn't Universe level due to the fact that he never destroyed a universe with his Kamehameha.
However, this is fiction, and attacks can often by focused on their target.
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The Colt is HAX.It is supposed to kill anything.Otherwise it is just a normal gun.
The Archangels were only hyped to be Continent level but they have plenty of City to Mountain level feats, Reality wrapping feats and their stats fit with their purpose in the plot.
The 4 Archangels brought Amara (God's sister who is also a bit stronger than him) to below his level so that he could seal her.So if their combine power can weaken a being that is Multi Continent to Solar System level then it kinda explains the various claims.
The Archangels were only hyped to be Continent level but they have plenty of City to Mountain level feats, Reality wrapping feats and their stats fit with their purpose in the plot.
The 4 Archangels brought Amara (God's sister who is also a bit stronger than him) to below his level so that he could seal her.So if their combine power can weaken a being that is Multi Continent to Solar System level then it kinda explains the various claims.
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@Kkapois
I've seen many other forums considering angels to be Town level, as some have claimed to capable of casually smiting towns.
Also, Demons have bullet-time feats.
What do you make of that?
I've seen many other forums considering angels to be Town level, as some have claimed to capable of casually smiting towns.
Also, Demons have bullet-time feats.
What do you make of that?
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1.The colt isn't continental, it is HAX.It ignores durability and kills the target while having the regular Kinetic energy of a bullet.
2.The Hand of God didn't directly hit the wall.It hit a demon and vaporized her and the shockwave launched Lucifer back and cracked the wall.
2.The Hand of God didn't directly hit the wall.It hit a demon and vaporized her and the shockwave launched Lucifer back and cracked the wall.
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Uriel said that he was going to smite everyone in a town not destroy the town itself.By that logic if i kill everyone in my city block then i have City Block level AP.
There are a few bullet time feats but most of them can be considered aim dodging and/or outliers since humans have no problem keeping up with angels and demons.
There are a few bullet time feats but most of them can be considered aim dodging and/or outliers since humans have no problem keeping up with angels and demons.
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Well, if we go by that logic, then every demon in say, Hellblazer is Human level in speed since they have multile times been caught in tricks by Constantine.
I'd just call those instances PIS or CIS.
I'd just call those instances PIS or CIS.
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11 seasons of PIS and CIS sounds too much for one decent bullet time feat.
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I am seeing Episode 7 of Supernatural Season 4, and it is very clear that Uriel and Castiel were talking about destroying the town as a whole, and not just smiting the people in it.
Castiel: You two... Need to leave this town immediately
Dean: Why?
Castiel: Because we're about to destroy it.
or
Dean: So this is your plan, you're gonna smite the whole friggin town?
Castiel: We're out of time, this witch has to die. The seal must be saved.
Sam: There are a thousand people here!
Uriel: 1214.
Sam: And you're willing to kill them all?
Uriel: This isn't the first time I've purified a city.
Castiel: You two... Need to leave this town immediately
Dean: Why?
Castiel: Because we're about to destroy it.
or
Dean: So this is your plan, you're gonna smite the whole friggin town?
Castiel: We're out of time, this witch has to die. The seal must be saved.
Sam: There are a thousand people here!
Uriel: 1214.
Sam: And you're willing to kill them all?
Uriel: This isn't the first time I've purified a city.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=czQKWx36s-o
Here is the scene in it's entirety on youtube. The statements start at 2:04.
Please give input to this.
Here is the scene in it's entirety on youtube. The statements start at 2:04.
Please give input to this.
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Still this would go against every single thing we've seen angels do.
For example many angels were hurt and even killed by the fall, literally falling from the sky.A human being falling from the upper layers of the atmosphere would have a kinetic energy value of around 120 to 170 kg of TNT (mid Small Building level) and since many survived (but they were hurt) the durability of an average angel without the link with heaven should be low Room level.95% of their feats are wall level and the rest are Room level so a vague statement that isn't supported in any way shouldn't be used to boost their stats to that extent.
For example many angels were hurt and even killed by the fall, literally falling from the sky.A human being falling from the upper layers of the atmosphere would have a kinetic energy value of around 120 to 170 kg of TNT (mid Small Building level) and since many survived (but they were hurt) the durability of an average angel without the link with heaven should be low Room level.95% of their feats are wall level and the rest are Room level so a vague statement that isn't supported in any way shouldn't be used to boost their stats to that extent.
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You are against using statements to scale the angels but literally every single high level Supernatural character has nothing but statements. I find this contraditory, and saying that they only have Wall - Room level showings is hypocritical cause we all know that powers in Supernatural are incredibly focused in scale, with characters trying to desintegrate their opponents rather than blowing them away more often them not.
There are also several statements about how nothing on Earth can kill an angel.
Also, were they falling from the sky or from heaven? Cause if it's the later, I don't think we can scale.
There are also several statements about how nothing on Earth can kill an angel.
Also, were they falling from the sky or from heaven? Cause if it's the later, I don't think we can scale.
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it was from heaven,also magic was involved from tablets.Since they all literally lost wingsMatthew Schroeder said:
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They fell from heaven but they also literally fell from the sky.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xh8fTudYhzU (whatch at 1:19)
Actually Death has a Multi Continent level feat (creating a Solar eclipse) so statements are backed up by feats and some powerscaling while also such powerlevels are important for the story, since season 5 happened to avoid the casualties the fight between Michael and Lucifer would cause.
While much of Supernatural is focused in the scale between characters they have feats and for the most part (not counting the current seasons where a 5 year old child could kill a demon with a fork) are pretty consistent with the power levels the feat and the scaling indicates.
PS Sorry if i'm not making much sense, it's night and i'm very tired.
Actually Death has a Multi Continent level feat (creating a Solar eclipse) so statements are backed up by feats and some powerscaling while also such powerlevels are important for the story, since season 5 happened to avoid the casualties the fight between Michael and Lucifer would cause.
While much of Supernatural is focused in the scale between characters they have feats and for the most part (not counting the current seasons where a 5 year old child could kill a demon with a fork) are pretty consistent with the power levels the feat and the scaling indicates.
PS Sorry if i'm not making much sense, it's night and i'm very tired.
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The spell only destroyed their wings, the damage was done by hitting the ground.
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I don't see why the weakness of an angel without the link to Heaven should be used to downplay an angel with the link to Heaven.
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Because the difference in strength isn't that big.And several angels that survived the fall still had powers like healing and smiting unlike Castiel when he didn't have the link.And we've seen that highher angels like Seraph Castiel had all of their powers even without the link.So it's safe to assume that the link makes a difference for low level angels.
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Castiel, Uriel and Zachariah aren't low level angels.
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Season 4 Castiel was a low-mid level angel.Uriel was mid level and Zachariah was high level.
EDIT I don't get what this has to do with my point, the only angel we've seen having real trouble by the fall was Castiel.
EDIT I don't get what this has to do with my point, the only angel we've seen having real trouble by the fall was Castiel.
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Isn't smiting atomical destruction? Can one even calculate destroying 1214 people like that?ToAruFan said:
Besides, I think they were clear they'd destroy it.
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Only the Archangels are said to smite on a sub atomic level not regular angels.
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Even if it's just vaporization, killing 1214 people at once would wield far more than Room level.
Besides, certain angels' in true forms are the size of buildings. I think 9-A is downplay.
Besides, certain angels' in true forms are the size of buildings. I think 9-A is downplay.
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^it doesnt need to be at once, you can wipe a town even if you can only kill a single person at once (given that you can do it fast enough of course) 
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I dunno...he could've mean't just killing the people but I've always thought he mean't he was going to destroy the whole town. *Shrug*
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@Pocket-Chu
I agree.
It seems that certain Supernatural fans here are purposefuly downgrading the characters by taking the interpretations that will wield the lower results.
Also, why isn't the 'Castiel searches a city' calc applied to the profiles? Even if it's just teleportation, it scales to perception and reaction speed.
I agree.
It seems that certain Supernatural fans here are purposefuly downgrading the characters by taking the interpretations that will wield the lower results.
Also, why isn't the 'Castiel searches a city' calc applied to the profiles? Even if it's just teleportation, it scales to perception and reaction speed.
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The Castiel searches a city is wrong in a few ways.
1.Angels have higher senses and are able to locate people/things without much trouble (for example Gadreel was able to find human Castiel even though he was in an apartment kilometers away) so i can easily argue that Castiel would only have to go to a place where he could have a better view of the city and not go to every single place to search for the horn.
2.Again it can easily be an outlier since angels and demons aren't portrayed to be super fast.
Castiel claimed that his true form is the size of a large building but if we accept such a vague claim (i say vague because his true form is composed of light so i'm not exactly sure how can the size of a being made out of energy relate to its AP) that would mean that by 99% of things shown in the series his true form could even kill other angels.
Smiting doesn't vaporize the whole person, just a small part so smiting an individual should be around high wall level to low Room level.
1.Angels have higher senses and are able to locate people/things without much trouble (for example Gadreel was able to find human Castiel even though he was in an apartment kilometers away) so i can easily argue that Castiel would only have to go to a place where he could have a better view of the city and not go to every single place to search for the horn.
2.Again it can easily be an outlier since angels and demons aren't portrayed to be super fast.
Castiel claimed that his true form is the size of a large building but if we accept such a vague claim (i say vague because his true form is composed of light so i'm not exactly sure how can the size of a being made out of energy relate to its AP) that would mean that by 99% of things shown in the series his true form could even kill other angels.
Smiting doesn't vaporize the whole person, just a small part so smiting an individual should be around high wall level to low Room level.
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Also, Azazel's mere presence can create storms spanning 100 Square Miles in radius. This scales to angels.
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Why would Azazel's enviromental destruction scale to angel's Attack Potency?
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Because generating huge storms require an energy output, an energy output which high-tier angels can surpass.
Also, an angel has outrun a point-blank explosion. Not to mention Supersonic Demons.
Also, an angel has outrun a point-blank explosion. Not to mention Supersonic Demons.
- 1 Interpeting it specifically in a way so it wouldn't translate to speed. Nothing in the scene indicates that he didn't teleport or move around. If his senses are so superior it's ridiculous to assume he'd have to leave the city.
- 2 Even fodder monsters have 9-A feats, placing all creatures in one same tier is ridiculous.
- 3 Even if smiting an individual is Low room level, doing it to over 1000 at once casually would wield far greater results, and the dialogue indicates that they'd wipe the whole town. This is also a biblical reference where an angel purified a city by Smiting it's 100,000+ individuals at once.
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The combined smiting of thousands of angels was used to smite thousands of people, it is even mentined by Castiel in season 11.
When did an angel outrun and explosion.The only thing i remember was Castiel teleporting where the explosion was happening and saving Sam and Dean.
What Room level feats do fodder monsters have?
Note: If we decide to follow that statement
1214/2 = 607 people each.Assuming that they were going to be smited at the same time (something we've never seen on that scale by angels) and that the yield of smiting is 5 kg TNT (the lower value of Room level) that would translate to 3035 kg TNT (City Block level) for mid level angels.I will try to find a more precise value for the smiting so we can be more sure.
When did an angel outrun and explosion.The only thing i remember was Castiel teleporting where the explosion was happening and saving Sam and Dean.
What Room level feats do fodder monsters have?
Note: If we decide to follow that statement
1214/2 = 607 people each.Assuming that they were going to be smited at the same time (something we've never seen on that scale by angels) and that the yield of smiting is 5 kg TNT (the lower value of Room level) that would translate to 3035 kg TNT (City Block level) for mid level angels.I will try to find a more precise value for the smiting so we can be more sure.
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City Block level is still better than Room level.
And look at the Alpha Shifter easily ripping a bunker metal door.
And look at the Alpha Shifter easily ripping a bunker metal door.
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Also, Azazel's feat is still significant.
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There is no evidence to support scaling from enviromental destruction.A high level angel would be able to overpower and kill Azazel but that only scales to their Attack Potency.
Ripping a bunker metal door isn't necessarily a room level feat, probably just Wall level.
I still don't agree with the use of the statement (that they were going to smite the town).
Ripping a bunker metal door isn't necessarily a room level feat, probably just Wall level.
I still don't agree with the use of the statement (that they were going to smite the town).
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You all appear to be arguing/debating about what's been shown on screen. Which isn't going to leave any of you with accurate dipictions of any of the characters. Supernatural doesn't have the budget to do anything big. But it has been stated that there are beings capable of destroying and creating multiverses. IE God, Amara, Death, and The Archangels. All of which are Omnipotent beings (God being the only truly Omnipotent one, as the others are "only" Nigh-Omnipotent). Angels in general are capable of destroying entire sections of the Earth (and other planets) with one unified blast. Archangels are basically "mini" Gods themselves. I usually think of them as four parts to a whole. Meaning if unified they more or less are equal to God in terms of power. But they must be unified. And with the exception of Amara, they're Omilocked beings as well. God, The Archangels, and Death all existed before time, space, and existence itself. Amara came into being the moment existence did. Meaning she's actually the "weakest", and youngest of the bunch (which is a complication as she's supposedly God's older sister, and the Aunt of The Archangels). Regardless all of them are not to be trifled with. We only see a micro fraction of what they're truly capable of. The Archangels alone are described as "Heaven's most terrifying weapon", "Absolute", and "Powerful in ways that defy description" (even to Angels, whom are cosmic beings themselves).
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Can someone close this?I'm really tired of dealing with this matter over and over again.
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Sure, Kkapoios
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