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Supernatural - power additions

ArgosaxDespair

ArgosaxDespair

508
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  • Law Manipulation - For Jack. The feat: Jack was able to make Lucifer tell him the truth against his own will. By simply saying "stop lying", Jack was able to make the entire planet tell the truth against their will
The reasoning behind this being Law Manipulation and not Mind Manipulation by PaChi2 was: "Thing is, It's not "against their will", It's more like "nobody can lie". People can only tell the truth. The feat performed looks to me more like Law Manipulation than Mind manipulation. Jack said "stop lying" and immediately everyone is unable to lie." This was agreed by me, PaChi2, DarkHunter89, Nico-v11, CrimsonStarFalle and WHYNAUT on the previous thread.

  • Power Bestowal - Power Bestowal for Jack (as seen here). And a limited version of the same technique for archangels, since they can grant their human vessels total control over their powers.
  • Dimensional Travel/Portal Creation - A higher range for Jack, who can create portals to alternate realities by opening rifts through space-time and a smaller range for the archangels, who can only do that to their own universe (Heaven, Hell and Purgatory are places that exists unbound by the physical reality, but still inside the main universe, while Jack can open rifts to places outside of the main universe). Since the archangels are a "set" and are only different in terms of power, they should be able to perform dimensional travels since Michael could.
 
I disagree with it being against their will. When Sam tried to lie about his favourite singer, he couldn't.

The others are fine.
 
Dang good on you for bringing this back up. I agree with all of it.

@ByAsura yeah that's what PaChi2 was saying.
 
ByAsura said:
I disagree with it being against their will. When Sam tried to lie about his favourite singer, he couldn't.

The others are fine.
Click to expand...
By "against their will" I meant it as Jack actively making Sam not lying. What traditional mindfuccery is all about.

You may think of it as Jack removing all "erroneous amswers" in a test, so even if you wanted to answer anything else, you wouldnt be able to.
 
I'm not really sold on "Law Manipulation". Forcing someone or something to tell the truth against their will would be more like Willpower Manipulation. Law Manipulation is basically a form of Reality Warping that's more advanced than Physics Manipulation; which is a sub power of Law Manipulation. Law Manipulation is basically creating, destroying, or rewriting universal laws. Such as altering the laws of physics to make Kinetic energy 5 * Mass^2 * velocity instead of 0.5 * Mass * Velocity^2. As well as altering the laws of thermal dynamics to that energy can be created or destroyed. So, I don't see anything beyond Willpower Manipulation.

Also, "Breaking Laws" is not enough for law manipulation. We don't grant Physics manipulation for just some feats that violate laws of physics, it's only legit reality warpers who can rewrite those laws have that.

The other stuff is fine.
 
Jack is definitely a reality warper but I don't think Willpower Manipulation works here honestly.

It's not that they're will to do something is changed it's just that they can only speak the truth now, it doesn't have to do with they're minds or conscious choices. I mean they can just not talk if they wanted to.
 
Can someone link the scenes? The one where Jack shouts "STOP LYING" and the ones where we see the chaos brought by it?
 
The shout and the chaos: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X4_mwEW7oyE

There is another scene where Chuck teleports the bois back to the Bunker and shows them just how bad everything is by turning on the radio revealing, among other things, that the Queen of England is a lizard before he snaps his fingers and reverts things so the truths were never told, but sadly I couldn't find it.
 
What I'm seeing is when Jack says Stop Lying. There is now this magic force that causes people to tell the truth no matter how hard they don't want to do it. So I still think it sounds more like willpower manipulation.
 
I will apply the accepted powers to their respective profiles.

@Dominic1743

Supernatural has some scaling issues that unfortunately are hard to solve. We agreed that archangels should be 3-A only with their true vessels.

Fours Archangels combined could harm and weaken the Darkness, making all of them Low 2-C by themselves, but seeing how easy Amara defeated Lucifer while being already weakened makes the scaling hard. Jack could effortlessly kill Alternate Michael, who was far superior to Lucifer and Michael, yet, God killed Jack with a snap of his fingers, putting in question again how four archangels could've done such a feat of weakening a being stronger than God.

The accepted scaling last time was: archangels are really close to 3-A by themselves, and Alternate Michael scales above all of them by a huge margin and had enough power to destroy a universe (timeframe unknown), and since Jack scales above Alternate Michael by a huge margin, he would be 3-A, we also used the statement that Doctor Hess claimed that Jack could destroy the whole universe to back his tier.

The other thing is that, Purgatory and Heaven are accepted to be universe-sized, if we could prove that Hell is universe-sized, archangels could be 3-A since Lucifer stated that a small portion of his original power could tear Hell apart.

I'm preparing a CRT to either downgrade all of them to 3-B or upgrade them to 3-A using a different reasoning and trying to mitigate these plot holes and outliers.
 
@ArgosaxDespair


He said With a little more power I could tear this place apart (possible the asylum which is where he was held, unlikely Hell).

Also should Jack be higher, because of the recent episode. He will become strong enough to kill GOD.
 
I think they tried putting the Shadow on the same tier as God and Amara but I don't remember much since it was up for a short time
 
Right the two new episodes of Season 15 shows that Jack can't kill God by himself but rather Billy is overloading and priming him to become a bomb that can wipe out God and The Darkness
 
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