downgrade for supernatural

[Rockysbalboa]

First of all, for the supernatural (series), upgrades such as 2A abstract existence were opened and accepted, but what we call transduality is now treated as a type of non-duality, so the necessary changes and reductions should be made.


Supernatural upgrade

Empty has never died or been injured except for its physical body, which Billie/Death explains is due to its sheer size so a 2-A explosion can only noise it instead of destroying or doing any significant damage. In other words, its size is much larger than baseline 2-A .

As you can see, it is said that 2a+ range should be taken from only one word and it is accepted. I could not see a single evidence, a single claim and an extra evidence on the truth of this, I think this should be reduced, at least if there is nothing else.


As for Transduality type 2, as you can see it says that there is a balance in the universe called equilibrium and that equilibria (dualities) can lead to the destruction of reality and that dualities are at the level of reality. The dual transcendence of all dualities at the level of reality has been called Transduality 2, yes, according to some rulers, but what we call duality needs a qualitative transcendence (not always) and in the given context he seems to be talking about the dualities themselves and what they create, which seems more like being devoid of them because creating something doesn't mean you can be completely independent of it and it has nothing to do with qualitative transcendence. Of course, qualitative transcendence is not always required in such cases, but the following is enough to refute it



For example, if character A creates character B, but character B can attack character A with any ability, then we cannot talk about an expression of the independence of love. But in the supernatural OP, I see that they give TD2 for creation, but there is no evidence that it can be affected or not, and to declare certainty in a situation whose truth or falsity is not certain corresponds to the fallacy of argument from ignorance, which the admins who accept this ignore, funny, i.e. transduality, I request that 2 of them be removed, if there is creation in the sense of deprivation, prove it so that we can discuss non duality, but if not, as I said, something claimed without evidence can be refuted without evidence, so I request that this OP be taken into consideration, thank you in advance.

Non duality: Characters with this type of nonduality exist outside and independently of the logical systems they're nondual regarding without transcending them on any level. Though this power renders them immune to effects intermediated through the dualities in question, characters with certain forms of Causality Manipulation, Conceptual Manipulation, Information Manipulation, Law Manipulation, or Mathematics Manipulation could potentially bestow these dualities on them, which would remove their nondual nature and render them vulnerable to attacks governed by the dualities.

Transduality: Characters with this type of nonduality exist outside and independently of the logical systems they're nondual regarding while also possessing qualitative superiority to them. Besides immunizing them against the dualities in question, this power also immunizes them against attempts to apply those dualities to them, as they would transcend the scope of the haxes that could do so.

As a result



TD 2 should be removed from the profile and so should 2A (for which character, by the way, it is written on the CRT I threw away).



I agree:



I disagree:



I'm undecided:

 

[zaraus]

I agree, this makes sense after the new regulations.

 

[Memonto_Mori]

I agree but I will still follow.

 

[StorytellingDemonKing]

I don't know the standards for TD2 and I don't really care about it so I won't comment on it, though it seems like God (post-amara absorption) does embody light and darkness so it would just be switched to something else and specified.

Anyway, on to the 2-A downgrade stuff.

If we look at the place where the 2A was taken, as you can see here, it says that he survived an explosion or something like that, but I didn't see why this explosion was 2A and I didn't see the necessary proof, as far as I can see, there is no proof of the place where the 2A was taken and there is no logic.

What explosion is being talked about? God is rated as 2-A for creating the infinite multiverse which at a glance has infinite possibilities and works on MWI. I don't get this point.

Nvm...that's all. Why should 2-A be removed? Maybe I genuinely missed something, but you just talked about TD2...and then the conclusion is that since it doesn't qualify anymore 2-A creation should be removed? That's just confusing. Maybe the OP should be worded better or something.

Like, this is God's AP justification:

Created the Supernatural multiverse over a period of time, which is confirmed to contain an infinite number of universes and possibilities, in addition to the spiritual realities existing alongside said universes. His influence extends throughout all of the multiverse, existing "everywhere and nowhere, to the edge of the universe and beyond," and with his death causing all of existence to collapse into nothingness. Superior to The Shadow, who is the ruler and personification of The Empty, the primordial void of nothingness which precedes and encompasses all of existence, while residing outside of it entirely. Destroyed all of the alternate realities which he ever created, though it was a gradual process that took weeks to be completed due to the complexity of some of the universes destroyed

None of that was addressed AFAIK.

 

[Rockysbalboa]

I don't know the standards for TD2 and I don't really care about it so I won't comment on it, though it seems like God (post-amara absorption) does embody light and darkness so it would just be switched to something else and specified.

Anyway, on to the 2-A downgrade stuff.

What explosion is being talked about? God is rated as 2-A for creating the infinite multiverse which at a glance has infinite possibilities and works on MWI. I don't get this point.

Nvm...that's all. Why should 2-A be removed? Maybe I genuinely missed something, but you just talked about TD2...and then the conclusion is that since it doesn't qualify anymore 2-A creation should be removed? That's just confusing. Maybe the OP should be worded better or something.

Like, this is God's AP justification:

None of that was addressed AFAIK.

Empty has never died or been injured except for its physical body, which Billie/Death explains is due to its sheer size so a 2-A explosion can only noise it instead of destroying or doing any significant damage. In other words, its size is much larger than baseline 2-A .

The place I said was the 2a range part (corrected), I mentioned the wrong place at that point because I was using translation, but the place beyond 2a range will not even make noise, unless there is a definite proof of this, it would be hyperbole to start from a single word, so clarify the 2a range.





As for transduality, having a duality or all dualities in your body does not mean that you are transcendent or deprived of it, but more like abstract existence because in non-duality you are deprived/immune to the concept, in transduality you are immune/qualitatively transcendent, and in abstract existence the character can have a concept in his/her body, thus achieving regeneration or Immortality, or directly the concept itself.

 

[StorytellingDemonKing]

The place I said was the 2a range part (corrected), I mentioned the wrong place at that point because I was using translation, but the place beyond 2a range will not even make noise, unless there is a definite proof of this, it would be hyperbole to start from a single word, so clarify the 2a range.

Sorry, I still have no clue what you're talking about. The only place beyond all of creation is the emptiness, which I have no idea on how thats relevant. Nothing you have said or presented is an argument against the 2-A ratings.

As for transduality, having a duality or all dualities in your body does not mean that you are transcendent or deprived of it, but more like abstract existence because in non-duality you are deprived/immune to the concept, in transduality you are immune/qualitatively transcendent, and in abstract existence the character can have a concept in his/her body, thus achieving regeneration or Immortality, or directly the concept itself.

I already said I dont know nor do I care about transduality since Im not familiar with the guidelines for it.

 

[Benimōru]

Meh, I disagree with 2-A downgrade.

It's really nothing to do with where 2-A stuff came from.

 

[Rockysbalboa]

Sorry, I still have no clue what you're talking about. The only place beyond all of creation is the emptiness, which I have no idea on how thats relevant. Nothing you have said or presented is an argument against the 2-A ratings.

I already said I dont know nor do I care about transduality since Im not familiar with the guidelines for it.

Empty has never died or been injured except for its physical body, which Billie/Death explains is due to its sheer size so a 2-A explosion can only noise it instead of destroying or doing any significant damage. In other words, its size is much larger than baseline 2-A .

As you can see, it is said that 2a+ range should be taken from only one word and it is accepted. I could not see a single evidence, a single claim and an extra evidence on the truth of this, I think this should be reduced, at least if there is nothing else.

It says that 2a is just going to make noise and that's why it should have more ranges and that's just what the guy says, "it's going to make noise"

 

[StorytellingDemonKing]

As you can see, it is said that 2a+ range should be taken from only one word and it is accepted. I could not see a single evidence, a single claim and an extra evidence on the truth of this, I think this should be reduced, at least if there is nothing else.

It says that 2a is just going to make noise and that's why it should have more ranges and that's just what the guy says, "it's going to make noise"

I mean, at one point emptiness (or, shadow to be exact) was "destroyed" but only its avatar, no? After which it was back shortly. Like, can you link videos for the relevant parts? So far nothing that has been said is proper reason for a downgrade and with the poor translations its difficult to understand your main point.

 

[StorytellingDemonKing]

I think I kind of get what youre talking about since I just watched the clip of Jack exploding.

He was meant as a bomb to destroy cosmic forces but I still dont get how that would effect anything. Hell, if what you mean is that the explosiom from Jack is meant to be 2-A it just means the empty is big enough to contain 2-A creations and explosions without them interracting and in the end it just absorbed jacks explosion. low 1-c supernatural?

Here is the clip, I think:

 

[Rockysbalboa]

I think I kind of get what youre talking about since I just watched the clip of Jack exploding.

He was meant as a bomb to destroy cosmic forces but I still dont get how that would effect anything. Hell, if what you mean is that the explosiom from Jack is meant to be 2-A it just means the empty is big enough to contain 2-A creations and explosions without them interracting and in the end it just absorbed jacks explosion. low 1-c supernatural?

Here is the clip, I think:

Dude I'm tired of explaining to you never mind I can't express myself to you because I don't know the show but for now I'm just going to try to get transduality type2 removed because it's a big issue because it's definitely not worth arguing for that character's rangesi but when it comes to transduality we're going to argue until the end anyway because it's a big thing

 

[StorytellingDemonKing]

Dude I'm tired of explaining to you never mind I can't express myself to you because I don't know the show but for now I'm just going to try to get transduality type2 removed because it's a big issue because it's definitely not worth arguing for that character's rangesi but when it comes to transduality we're going to argue until the end anyway because it's a big thing

Yeah, its better for you to stick with transduality change.

Now then, while I only gave it a quick read, it seems God qualifies for Nonduality, Type 1 aka Specific Nonduality:

Specific Nonduality: Characters existing in a nondual state regarding one or more specific dual systems. This type of nonduality immunizes the user against attacks and haxes bound by the specific dual systems in question.

God afrer absorbing Amara became both Light and Darkness, a single being coexisting.
The profiles current explenation:

Absorbed The Darkness, thusly erasing the dualistic system that binds their existence, as he embodies both dualities

Seems prettt straight forward IMO

 

[Rockysbalboa]

I think I kind of get what youre talking about since I just watched the clip of Jack exploding.

He was meant as a bomb to destroy cosmic forces but I still dont get how that would effect anything. Hell, if what you mean is that the explosiom from Jack is meant to be 2-A it just means the empty is big enough to contain 2-A creations and explosions without them interracting and in the end it just absorbed jacks explosion. low 1-c supernatural?

Here is the clip, I think:

Yeah, its better for you to stick with transduality change.

Now then, while I only gave it a quick read, it seems God qualifies for Nonduality, Type 1 aka Specific Nonduality:

God afrer absorbing Amara became both Light and Darkness, a single being coexisting.
The profiles current explenation:

Seems prettt straight forward IMO

It becomes both light and dark, if I am not mistaken, but this is not a dualism, but one of the states of transduality type 3.



Whereas for non-duality it means that it lacks the concept and therefore receives resistance to attacks



In transduality you are both transcendent/independent, provide me with proof of this, proof is needed either way

 

[KLOL506]

@Theglassman12

 

[StorytellingDemonKing]

It becomes both light and dark, if I am not mistaken, but this is not a dualism, but one of the states of transduality type 3.



Whereas for non-duality it means that it lacks the concept and therefore receives resistance to attacks



In transduality you are both transcendent/independent, provide me with proof of this, proof is needed either way

Just read the part where TD2 was accepted in a previous thread. It seems God became The Balance itself which contains all of dualities. Light and dark, life and death, and its even stated everything shares this:

DEAN: There's no bullets.
CHUCK: Right, it doesn't exactly use bullets. See, existence is all about balance, right? Dark and light, good and evil, chocolate and peanut butter.
SAM: Ugh, yeah, okay, Chuck. The point, please?
CHUCK: Right. So, this doesn't so much fire bullets as it sends a wave of multi-dimensional energy across a perfectly balanced quantum link between whoever's shooting it and whoever they're shooting at.

So yeah, Nonduality type 2 aka General Nonduality seems fitting since the description is:

Characters existing in a nondual state regarding all dual systems within an entire level of reality in a way that makes them occupy both or neither state of the dualities in question. This type of nonduality immunizes the user against all attacks and haxes that don't also possess this level of nonduality, though characters scaling to more logical states than the ones mentioned can bypass this immunity.

Edit: Anyway, thats probably it from me for now. Will wait for what staff and others have to say about this.

 

[Rockysbalboa]

Just read the part where TD2 was accepted in a previous thread. It seems God became The Balance itself which contains all of dualities. Light and dark, life and death, and its even stated everything shares this:

So yeah, Nonduality type 2 aka General Nonduality seems fitting since the description is:


Edit: Anyway, thats probably it from me for now. Will wait for what staff and others have to say about this.

Dude, I've been telling you all morning, but you don't understand.



If this is the concept or these dualities themselves, this contradicts non-duality.


If character A is devoid of death and life, it must not harbor death in its body or be itself, if that happens, it will take abstract existence If character A is devoid of death and life, it will take resistance to all manipulations of death, even layer effects, but here we would be doing nlf because you can inject that concept into a character with non-duality and break its resistance, what you are saying is not even related to that, please don't take it any further because I explained it to you 30 times and you didn't understand it, understand it this time

 

[Lonkitt]

Honestly, I think this verse needs a massive overhaul in general

 

[Rockysbalboa]

Honestly, I think this verse needs a massive overhaul in general

What do you think of transdualite type 2 for supernatural downgrade

 

[zaraus]

Bump

 

[LazyMortician]

Chuck can create and destroy the multiverse with infinite timelines and the realms beyond. He created creation as a whole. But he included himself in the system he created. (in order for creation to work smoothly even when he is not around)

He based all this stuff on a script. He even engineered his own death. Chuck shouldn't have TD2. Empty is not included in the system created by Chuck and the script he wrote, nor in the duality created by Chuck and Amara. It comes long before these concepts.

We can still go with 2-A+ and TD2 for Empty.

 

[Rockysbalboa]

Chuck can create and destroy the multiverse with infinite timelines and the realms beyond. He created creation as a whole. But he included himself in the system he created. (in order for creation to work smoothly even when he is not around)

He based all this stuff on a script. He even engineered his own death. Chuck shouldn't have TD2. Empty is not included in the system created by Chuck and the script he wrote, nor in the duality created by Chuck and Amara. It comes long before these concepts.

We can still go with 2-A+ and TD2 for Empty.

First of all, creating a universe that contains duality and containing it within yourself or internalizing it still does not give you transduality, it still looks like abstract existence To get transduality 2, you need to transcend all dualities within the scope of the level of reality and / or all dualities (qualitative), but creating it and then containing it within yourself or internalizing it still does not give you TD2, and what you claim is an extra reason why it is not TD2, so I thank you for helping me.



And no one said anything about 2a xd

 

[LazyMortician]

Amara is beyond this entire system (qualitatively superior). Chuck is included in the system, but the TD2 reason in his profile is his fusion with Amara. I'm okay with that. Empty, that goes beyond this entire system and transcends these dualities.

I thought you thought giving the sole context for Empty being a 2-A+ was insufficient...

 

[Rockysbalboa]

Amara is beyond this entire system (qualitatively superior). Chuck is included in the system, but the TD2 reason in his profile is his fusion with Amara. I'm okay with that. Empty, that goes beyond this entire system and transcends these dualities.

I thought you thought giving the sole context for Empty being a 2-A+ was insufficient...

Prove that

 

[zaraus]

Bump

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

Honestly, I think this verse needs a massive overhaul in general

Same here for me

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

I disagree FRA

 

[Rockysbalboa]

I disagree FRA

Why?

 

[zaraus]

Bump