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Superman vs Necrozma
- Thread starter GyroNutz
- Start date
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Whats Necrozma's AP?
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the difference in ap is not that big 600+ Kilofoe vs 1 Megefoe.(1 Megafoe is 1000 Kilofoe BTW) Does necrozma has anything to bypass supers durability
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I thought the aura amp was passive?
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Looking at Supes's profile....
Absorption of Electromagnetic Energy (Absorbed energy from an EM gu; Getting shocked recharged his strength), Geothermal Energy (Learned to leech power from the earth around him), and other types of Energy. He is also capable of converting biological energy into Solar Radiation
Radiation Manipulation (Regularly absorbs nuclear energy and higher-than-usual amounts of red solar energy, all of which contain high levels of radioactivity)
However, isn't Necrozma responsible for the energy within Z Moves/Z Crystals, or am I mistaken? What proves Superman can absorb energy types other than those listed, let alone any/all types or energy that may not exist in his universe? Not that I deny the possibility.
Absorption of Electromagnetic Energy (Absorbed energy from an EM gu; Getting shocked recharged his strength), Geothermal Energy (Learned to leech power from the earth around him), and other types of Energy. He is also capable of converting biological energy into Solar Radiation
Radiation Manipulation (Regularly absorbs nuclear energy and higher-than-usual amounts of red solar energy, all of which contain high levels of radioactivity)
However, isn't Necrozma responsible for the energy within Z Moves/Z Crystals, or am I mistaken? What proves Superman can absorb energy types other than those listed, let alone any/all types or energy that may not exist in his universe? Not that I deny the possibility.
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Isn't Necrozma's energy just light?
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Yeah
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Superman gibs S U C C .
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Necrozma is not limited to ranged energy-based attacks, though.
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Yea I know. But does Necrozma even have a viable win-con, though?
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Necrozma COULD attack via telekinesis. But, one of the resistances from Superman's profile:
Telekinesis (Forced his way through telekinesis)
It could try to Dimensional BFR via Ultra Wormhole. But forcing Superman through it might be difficult, & could it keep the portal open during a fight? What about leading Superman into the portal?
It isn't really self-BFR if it can return immediately (Much quicker than in a week.) so it COULD open portals and assault Superman, then go to another dimension, possibly to goad him into following, then close it off, leaving him stranded and alone; AFAIK, Superman doesn't have Dimensional Travel of his own.
But AFAIK, such a strategy isn't In-Character for Necrozma.
Could Post-Crisis Superman live hundreds of years? Is outliving even a viable strategy? (Especially since some folks would call retreat without return a loss.)
Confusion, a telekinetic attack, could also inflict Confusion on Superman. It could intensify Gravity, but I'd bet Superman would resist it.
It has a myriad of energy attacks. How quickly can Superman absorb them? Instantly? Would they all fail to damage him?
Supposing so, it could try attacking up close with Metal Claw (Which 1 in 10 times, raises Necrozma's physical AP by about 50% of its un-modified AP for that form.), Slash, Night Slash.... It could achieve a bit of range with Rock Blast, Stealth Rock....
The closer to maximum stamina the victim is, the more damaging Wring Out is.
It could also augment its physical durability with Iron Defense, as well as its Speed (& make itself 100 KG lighter) with Autotomize.
It could also heal with Morning Sun &/or Moonlight.
The problem is, even if it went full "no energy attacks" with the above options, there's the issue of Stamina:
Stamina: Very high. Extremely high as Ultra Necrozma.
Stamina: Essentially infinite as long as he's under yellow or blue sunlight.
Without knowing about this, Necrozma's best chance would be to absorb ALL of Earth's sun, to deprive of Superman of it. However, it might actually try that if it gets desperate.
But could Necrozma do anything to stop Superman absorbing the yellow sunlight back? Could it convert the yellow sun radiation into a different type of energy that doesn't aid Superman's stamina. Could it absorb the whole Sun fast enough before he stops it?
Worse yet, how many sources of "yellow or blue sunlight" WOULD be near Earth? Necrozma wouldn't know they fuel Superman, but it would have to get rid of all of them if it wants to exhaust him, and as a bonus, they'd power it up.
....It'd just have to not use its energy attacks and stick to using its telekinesis (Hopefully inflicting Confusion.), claws, Iron Defense, Autotomize & healing.
So yeah. It'll be a dark day on Earth when Necrozma wins. Literally. Specifically, because to exhaust Superman, it seems it needs to extinguish all the sources of yellow &/or blue sunlight available. Which, considering it can provide/steal light to other worlds, & is 4-B for illuminating all of Ultra Space, it MIGHT be able to do.
Less likely, it Dimensional BFRs Superman into an Ultra Wormhole, by leading him in or forcing him in, &/or using them to take cheap shots at Supes, possibly goading him in.
Telekinesis (Forced his way through telekinesis)
It could try to Dimensional BFR via Ultra Wormhole. But forcing Superman through it might be difficult, & could it keep the portal open during a fight? What about leading Superman into the portal?
It isn't really self-BFR if it can return immediately (Much quicker than in a week.) so it COULD open portals and assault Superman, then go to another dimension, possibly to goad him into following, then close it off, leaving him stranded and alone; AFAIK, Superman doesn't have Dimensional Travel of his own.
But AFAIK, such a strategy isn't In-Character for Necrozma.
Could Post-Crisis Superman live hundreds of years? Is outliving even a viable strategy? (Especially since some folks would call retreat without return a loss.)
Confusion, a telekinetic attack, could also inflict Confusion on Superman. It could intensify Gravity, but I'd bet Superman would resist it.
It has a myriad of energy attacks. How quickly can Superman absorb them? Instantly? Would they all fail to damage him?
Supposing so, it could try attacking up close with Metal Claw (Which 1 in 10 times, raises Necrozma's physical AP by about 50% of its un-modified AP for that form.), Slash, Night Slash.... It could achieve a bit of range with Rock Blast, Stealth Rock....
The closer to maximum stamina the victim is, the more damaging Wring Out is.
It could also augment its physical durability with Iron Defense, as well as its Speed (& make itself 100 KG lighter) with Autotomize.
It could also heal with Morning Sun &/or Moonlight.
The problem is, even if it went full "no energy attacks" with the above options, there's the issue of Stamina:
Stamina: Very high. Extremely high as Ultra Necrozma.
Stamina: Essentially infinite as long as he's under yellow or blue sunlight.
Without knowing about this, Necrozma's best chance would be to absorb ALL of Earth's sun, to deprive of Superman of it. However, it might actually try that if it gets desperate.
But could Necrozma do anything to stop Superman absorbing the yellow sunlight back? Could it convert the yellow sun radiation into a different type of energy that doesn't aid Superman's stamina. Could it absorb the whole Sun fast enough before he stops it?
Worse yet, how many sources of "yellow or blue sunlight" WOULD be near Earth? Necrozma wouldn't know they fuel Superman, but it would have to get rid of all of them if it wants to exhaust him, and as a bonus, they'd power it up.
....It'd just have to not use its energy attacks and stick to using its telekinesis (Hopefully inflicting Confusion.), claws, Iron Defense, Autotomize & healing.
So yeah. It'll be a dark day on Earth when Necrozma wins. Literally. Specifically, because to exhaust Superman, it seems it needs to extinguish all the sources of yellow &/or blue sunlight available. Which, considering it can provide/steal light to other worlds, & is 4-B for illuminating all of Ultra Space, it MIGHT be able to do.
Less likely, it Dimensional BFRs Superman into an Ultra Wormhole, by leading him in or forcing him in, &/or using them to take cheap shots at Supes, possibly goading him in.
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Post-Crisis Superman should be able to live hundreds of years if there's a star near him. Longevity is part of Superman's powers I believe. Also, since Superman's a living battery, merely depriving him of sunlight won't do much good for a while. He can last for quite a while without any sunlight, seeing as how he was able to bench press the Earth for 5 days straight while deprived of any sunlight.
From what @Imaginym is saying, Necrozma does seem to have a win-con but Superman is likely to defeat Necrozma before it tries anything that Superman doesn't resist like BFR and even then, it's unknown if BFR/Goading would even work on someone as smart and experienced as Superman.
From what @Imaginym is saying, Necrozma does seem to have a win-con but Superman is likely to defeat Necrozma before it tries anything that Superman doesn't resist like BFR and even then, it's unknown if BFR/Goading would even work on someone as smart and experienced as Superman.
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@LordUrien935: Thanks for the answer to that.
As mentioned above, one option might be to try to telekinetically force Supes into the portal before he realizes the idea; He does resist Telekinesis, but even in the feat showing said resistance, it still moved him.
And as Setsuna Tenma pointed out above, Ultra Necrozma may have the AP advantage, in that it's Superman's 600+ Kilofoe vs Ultra Necrozma's 1 Megafoe, with 1 Megafoe being equal to 1000 Kilofoe.
So in terms of AP, Ultra Necrozma is about 1.67 times higher before any stat changes. (Possibly less given Superman is 600+.) Also, his durability may be higher based on what I read above, unless I misinterpreted.
Point is, Superman's resistance to telekinesis doesn't seem that strong (Besides that, he seemed more driven than usual in that scenario.), & Necrozma has the better AP. In theory, it shouldn't be TOO hard to telekinetically throw him into an Ultra Wormhole, especially if done before he realizes the plan.
However, I still doubt it's a likely plan in-character.
Given that it's Ultra Necrozma (Not 4-B otherwise), it would have "extremely high" stamina. How long could it last on that alone?
Yes, Superman could absorb its light, & he can probably tank the heat, but is it his first resort? Wouldn't he have to come into contact to absorb the light that is Necrozma's body, as opposed to just what its radiating?
Besides that, if it notices he's stealing its light when in direct contact, it's probably going to get away from him. It has Teleportation & Dimensional BFR; Necrozma went into hiding for centuries & fervently pursued light because it lost its light, didn't it?
As mentioned above, Necrozma could power up from light from nearby stars as well, heal, & attack in close combat with Metal Claw, Slash, Night Slash, attack at range with Confusion's TK, using Rock Blast or Stealth Rock, & heal using Moonlight/Morning Sun.
Incidentally, can Superman absorb Psychic Energy, given that's used by Psycho Cut?
It could further help its stats with Iron Defense or Autotomize, which might go well with its AP advantage.
Of course, Superman is still a very smart, skilled & very capable character. I wouldn't call this an easy victory, & I don't think he's been thoroughly evaluated for this match. If someone wants to point out stuff in his favor I've overlooked, I'd welcome that in the spirit of a thorough, reasonable debate.
As mentioned above, one option might be to try to telekinetically force Supes into the portal before he realizes the idea; He does resist Telekinesis, but even in the feat showing said resistance, it still moved him.
And as Setsuna Tenma pointed out above, Ultra Necrozma may have the AP advantage, in that it's Superman's 600+ Kilofoe vs Ultra Necrozma's 1 Megafoe, with 1 Megafoe being equal to 1000 Kilofoe.
So in terms of AP, Ultra Necrozma is about 1.67 times higher before any stat changes. (Possibly less given Superman is 600+.) Also, his durability may be higher based on what I read above, unless I misinterpreted.
Point is, Superman's resistance to telekinesis doesn't seem that strong (Besides that, he seemed more driven than usual in that scenario.), & Necrozma has the better AP. In theory, it shouldn't be TOO hard to telekinetically throw him into an Ultra Wormhole, especially if done before he realizes the plan.
However, I still doubt it's a likely plan in-character.
Given that it's Ultra Necrozma (Not 4-B otherwise), it would have "extremely high" stamina. How long could it last on that alone?
Yes, Superman could absorb its light, & he can probably tank the heat, but is it his first resort? Wouldn't he have to come into contact to absorb the light that is Necrozma's body, as opposed to just what its radiating?
Besides that, if it notices he's stealing its light when in direct contact, it's probably going to get away from him. It has Teleportation & Dimensional BFR; Necrozma went into hiding for centuries & fervently pursued light because it lost its light, didn't it?
As mentioned above, Necrozma could power up from light from nearby stars as well, heal, & attack in close combat with Metal Claw, Slash, Night Slash, attack at range with Confusion's TK, using Rock Blast or Stealth Rock, & heal using Moonlight/Morning Sun.
Incidentally, can Superman absorb Psychic Energy, given that's used by Psycho Cut?
It could further help its stats with Iron Defense or Autotomize, which might go well with its AP advantage.
Of course, Superman is still a very smart, skilled & very capable character. I wouldn't call this an easy victory, & I don't think he's been thoroughly evaluated for this match. If someone wants to point out stuff in his favor I've overlooked, I'd welcome that in the spirit of a thorough, reasonable debate.
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I feel like this match up is gonna go basically the same as Apollo vs Superman where Apollo just powers him up with his attacks and that leads to Superman closing the AP gap enough to beat Necrozma.
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I do agree that Necrozma's typical energy attacks might be a bad idea, but if it notices they're not harming Superman, or even helping him, it could simply stop using them.
Also, again, is he completely impervious to all of its forms of energy attacks, all the time? (And there's the non-energy attack options it has.)
Although, it probably does have an inclination towards light/energy-based attacks, but again, it could observe & reason that they're a bad idea.
Also, again, is he completely impervious to all of its forms of energy attacks, all the time? (And there's the non-energy attack options it has.)
Although, it probably does have an inclination towards light/energy-based attacks, but again, it could observe & reason that they're a bad idea.
Also, its Pokedex entry from Ultra Sun may support it being so inclined: "This is its form when it has absorbed overwhelming light energy. It fires laser beams from all over its body." Although, I'd question if that's referring to its habits, or its capabilities; Does it mean it regularly fires lasers from all over its body, or does it mean when it fires lasers, they can/do come from all over its body? |
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I doubt Necrozma is FTL. An 11 year old beat it and I'm sure kids in the pokemon world aren't speedsters. If it is not FTL, Superman can speedblitz.
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I mean, speed IS equal here.
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Oops my bad.
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@UsernameMan12: While I understand you might be skeptical, what the profile says is....
Speed: Massively FTL+ (Comparable to Solgaleo and Lunala, and superior to other Ultra Beasts, who can cross entire light years in seconds to reach other Ultra Wormholes; Some Ultra Beasts' homeworlds are 1,432 to 3,545 light years away from Alola and they were capable of travelling these distances in seconds.)
If you disagree with Necrozma's speed rating, you should start a Content Revision thread to change the rating listed on the profile. A Vs Thread isn't the best place to start.
(Also, as mentioned on the possibly irrelevant topic of speed, Necrozma can amp itself with Autotomize, & in theory, should be able to reach up to 4 times its starting speed. But I dunno the exact value of Superman's speed so I dunno if such a multiplier matters. But, speed is equalized, so who cares?)
Speed: Massively FTL+ (Comparable to Solgaleo and Lunala, and superior to other Ultra Beasts, who can cross entire light years in seconds to reach other Ultra Wormholes; Some Ultra Beasts' homeworlds are 1,432 to 3,545 light years away from Alola and they were capable of travelling these distances in seconds.)
If you disagree with Necrozma's speed rating, you should start a Content Revision thread to change the rating listed on the profile. A Vs Thread isn't the best place to start.
(Also, as mentioned on the possibly irrelevant topic of speed, Necrozma can amp itself with Autotomize, & in theory, should be able to reach up to 4 times its starting speed. But I dunno the exact value of Superman's speed so I dunno if such a multiplier matters. But, speed is equalized, so who cares?)
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Superman scales to 315,569,258,917,113,954,000c. If speed was unequalized he would blitz the shit out of Necrozma.
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Isn't UN like, a living yellow sun? What's stopping Supes from becoming stronger in his prescense?
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