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Superman tier upgrade

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DaReaperMan

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alright, you maybe able to argue with one to five universe feats... but how many can you argue against?

Post-Crisis Superman's fight with Golden Age Superman rewrote timelines and shattered a space-time continuum.

It was repeatedly stated that they would destroy each others’ universes and then eventually they started shattering the universe again, and they were again shown rewriting timelines.

The DC Comics website confirms that the two were shaking the space-time continuum apart.

Superman punched back Orion and fought on par with him on another occasion, who tanked a weapon capable of annihilating the universe, as well as having one fifth the power of a Big Bang.

Superman's heat vision made up one fourth of the power capable of creating a universe and causing the defeat of Hal Jordan, who was going to create a new universe, and the attack caused a Big Bang to occur.

Superman has fought Brainiac 13 on three different occasions, who can ravage timelines and rewrite the universe.

Post-Crisis Superman defeated Superboy-Prime alongside Golden Age Superman, who can withstand a Big Bang, and who was considered on par with the Silver Age Anti-Monitor, who was going to consume the universe and was defeated by Golden Age Superman and Superboy-Prime even after absorbing all energy from the antimatter universe and using it to fight them.

Post-Crisis Superman was shown earlier to stalemate Golden Age Superman, who stalemated Silver Age Superman, who caused a universe to be created following the death of Maaldor, tanked the Big Bang, bursted through the bounds of infinity,

shattered the barriers of space and time casually while flying, delivered a blow greater than any force in the universe, and fought against Blackstarr, a woman capable of destroying the universe and attacking him with the gravitational force of the whole universe, who also has absolute control over all aspects of the cosmos and all forces that created the universe.

Superman is stronger than Doctor Sivana, who had the power of Shazam, who fought and stalemated the Invincible Man for several hours, who wields the power of the Big Bang.

Superman fought against Nebula Man, who is a universe.

Superman fought 30th-century Mordru who had all of the magical power of a universe.

Superman fought the Time Trapper, who is a sentient timeline capable of shattering timelines.

Superman fought Monarch, whose quantum power is like the Big Bang, and whose fight with Captain Atom was twisting space and time and causing compressed universes to explode.

Captain Atom has destroyed and recreated the universe and can freely control it, and was going to destroy several universes, and one-shotted Jenny Quantum, who created a universe, tear apart a reality, contain a universe with her powers, and annihilated the Doctor, who can create a universe, and yet is weaker than Superman. Superman survived an encounter with a tesseract swarm.

Superman defeats Black Adam, who survived a tesseract expanding in his head. Superman stalemates amped Shazam right after fighting Black Adam, who tanked a tesseract bomb in his base.

Superman tanked a punch from Icon, who killed Starbreaker, who killed someone who was holding the universe together.

Superman fights Wonder Woman on multiple occasions, and even killed her once, who can recreate the timeline with her Lasso of Truth, can fight the Queen of Fables, who is an extra-dimensional embodiment of evil folklore, and can withstand attacks from 4-D when she's utilizing four-dimensional energy.

Superman fought the Red King, who can reshape the universe and destroy possibilities containing universes one by one, as well as having created the universe with his dreams.

Superman fought Imperiex probes for several days, who can individually fight against and mortally wound Aquaman, who was causing the universe to collapse on itself.

Superman fought and overwhelmed the Kryptonian God Cythonna, who warred for a long time against the Kryptonian God Rao, who created the universe.

Superman pushed through the barriers of space and time, and then defeated the embodiment of his own Death, who caused the universe to compress on Superman, only for him to overcome it.

Superman tanked Aztek's self-destruction of four-dimensional energy.

Superman can withstand attacks from and damage the Lord of Time, who is four-dimensional.

Superman tanks attacks from Firestorm, who has the power of a Big Bang.

Superman has overwhelmed Kyle Rayner on multiple occasions, who defeated an aberration that was breaking down the laws of space and time and the universe, remaking it into a world devoid of cause and effect and reason, and these changes were reverted by Kyle Rayner. Superman fights Blackstar, who wields the energies of the cosmos.

Superman overwhelmed Starman, who can defeat Darklord Maaldor, who can become a universe

I'm honestly surprised Niarobi got the scans for this, and absolutely and utterly ALL credit goes to them, I did none of this myself, I hardly touch comic books, so Low 2-C superman? or 4-B, at most Low 2-C?
 
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I'm honestly surprised Niarobi got the scans for this, and absolutely and utterly ALL credit goes to them, I did none of this myself, I hardly touch comic books, so Low 2-C superman?
Yeah these have unfortunately all been disputed by the wiki and them being copy-pastes of the points doesn't help either. I personally don't have a huge problem with him being rated that high but by the wiki's standards and what's been agreed upon, it's highly unlikely. I can explain if you'd like.
 
Yeah these have unfortunately all been disputed by the wiki and them being copy-pastes of the points doesn't help either. I personally don't have a huge problem with him being rated that high but by the wiki's standards and what's been agreed upon, it's highly unlikely. I can explain if you'd like.
i would like that, but theres a reason this is my first and probably only DC/Marvel CRT
 
There are less 4-B feats than there are Tier 3/2 feats. When confronted with this, staff usually says "Well there are more Tier 5 feats than there are Tier 3/2 feats"
Well, Goku has like 1 universal feat and a lot of Rock level feats
Yes, literally only marvel and DC are treated like this because of "issues" that a myriad of other verses have but aren't subjected to
 
Are not, but most of Superman's Low 2-C feats are when he is at his peak. A "4-B, at most Low 2-C" should work
this does sound good and doesn't send DC into hell more then it already is for scaling, which Its an absolute nightmare, I did read up on the DC/Marvel scaling rules before making this
 
I love how all of this is just peopld complaining about the thread getting closed.

Like, you could at least wait for people to show up to dispute it, my dudes.

That said, I'm 99% sure that the Superman vs Superman stuff was taken wildly out of context but I'd have to rewatch the Linkara review. I'm mostly just gonna monitor this though.
 
In itself, prime was superior to the 2 superman (and hundreds of super heroes), they had to use the radiation from a red sun to weaken it as you can see on the panels.

Wasn't mobius basically nearly killing them? Darksaid was the one who dealt the killing blow to Anitmonitor
 
I love how all of this is just peopld complaining about the thread getting closed.

Like, you could at least wait for people to show up to dispute it, my dudes.

That said, I'm 99% sure that the Superman vs Superman stuff was taken wildly out of context but I'd have to rewatch the Linkara review. I'm mostly just gonna monitor this though.
what can i say, we're battered and bruised
 
i would like that, but theres a reason this is my first and probably only DC/Marvel CRT
Okay sure. This will be a mix of my own thoughts and what the wiki has agreed on.
First off, it's debatable if the "destroying the Universe" part in the first place is legit, but enough sources imply that it is for me to believe it. The issue is that this takes place during Infinite Crisis, when the Multiverse was unstable due to tons of reality shenanigans.
The Oblivion Bomb was a chain-reaction kind of feat (some issue of Jack Kirby's Fourth World). The "1/5th" Universal one was via tapping into power sources.
You'd need to prove they were giving equal power. Assuming they were all giving the same amount of power is a blatant assumption.
I'll need the citations for this one.
They quite clearly only beat him via depowering him by blitzing him through a red sun.
Post-Crisis Superman was shown earlier to stalemate Golden Age Superman, who stalemated Silver Age Superman
A lot of your feats are based on this Silver Age Superman scaling, so I'll debunk that. Post-Crisis fought a far older Golden Age Superman, who's power decreases with age (DC Comics Presents Annual 3). Eventually, he was blatantly weaker than Silver Age (DC Comics Presents Annual 1)
This is one of the ones I'm fine with, but the wiki isn't. I believe the problem is proving he was truly a full Universe?
Superman had lots of help (Final Crisis: Legion of Three Worlds #3). Your own scans show this.
Monarch >>>> Superman (Countdown: Arena #1). As you can see, he casually beat him and said he was more powerful than any version of him in the Multiverse.
Why are tesseracts Universal?
I don't think Superman scaling to Starbreaker makes sense when he lost to him in Justice League of America #29.
We don't take "4D" stuff as Universal without further context. Also can you give the citation for recreating the timeline?
I haven't read this comic ngl, but here's the wiki-accepted counter.
Imperiex Probes need machines to destroy galaxies (Action Comics #781) so I don't think they're Universal. You'd also need to show Universal Aquaman is consistent.
Superman is losing in the scans you posted but I haven't read the source comic in a while, but I still have the scan of Lex saying Superman scales below. I can go read the comic it's from soon though.
It's highly debatable whether or not the events in Where is Thy Sting are just an illusion or not. The wiki accepts the former but I'm fine with either.
Same problem with the Wonder Woman feat. Although this is from JLA #42, a comic written by Grant Morrison, who has a good understanding of dimensions and the like. Don't know about the 2nd one though.
The first scans don't work. But, the 2nd scans only work for a specific version of Firestorm when agitated, so you'd need to prove Supes scales to that version.
This is from Anarky #3. He had help from Anarky and needed his full power just to briefly contain it.

Anyways, there are a few feats I consider legitimate and some I think, while not full on Universal, support the case. However, after how many times it's been rejected, I don't think it's gonna work unfortunately.
 
Me trying to get down scaling for DC and Marvel

but if tier 3/2 feats outnumber the tier 4 feats but tier 5 feats outnumber the tier 3/2 feats should they be Varies? it does take into account every feat, id actually be up for downgrading DC if there are more tier 5 feats then tier 4, since that is the most reliable area of power, since Varies is quite a stretch
If this doesn't go through, we should make a rule against Low 2-C Superman without new arguments and list the arguments that have been rejected, because this is getting absurd at this rate.
agreed, it would stop others from making my mistake
I love how all of this is just peopld complaining about the thread getting closed.

Like, you could at least wait for people to show up to dispute it, my dudes.

That said, I'm 99% sure that the Superman vs Superman stuff was taken wildly out of context but I'd have to rewatch the Linkara review. I'm mostly just gonna monitor this though.
hey, as the OP I also have to help to make sure this doesn't get out of hand as well
Oh boy, it's that time again, time for the monthly Low 2-C superman thread
jesus christ its done that often? screw you related threads for being unreliable?
In itself, prime was superior to the 2 superman (and hundreds of super heroes), they had to use the radiation from a red sun to weaken it as you can see on the panels.

Wasn't mobius basically nearly killing them? Darksaid was the one who dealt the killing blow to Anitmonitor
hmm, should i remove those from the feats then? I'm not exactly a comic book expert
 
i state in the OP that i barely touch comic books, but it is good to be wiser on the matter
Then why did you make the CRT? If you wish to do something as drastic on VBW as charging Superman's tier from 4-B to Low 2-C based off 26 feats, give the full context
because i suck at CRT's and have barely any knowledge on DC, as i said above i would be up for downgrading superman if there are enough tier 5 feats going against him
 
This is controversial, so I'm going to say this right now before anyone does anything.


What happens here, on VS Battles Wiki, doesn't matter. This is all a hobby and this is all for fun. Please, don't take any of this personally and don't resort to insults. If this gets accepted, yay, if it gets rejected, oh well. It doesn't matter. Don't let it ruin your day and don't take anything done here personally.

At the end of the day, we're all here to have fun discussing petty nerd shit. But don't let it get you down if you lose.
 
This is controversial, so I'm going to say this right now before anyone does anything.


What happens here, on VS Battles Wiki, doesn't matter. This is all a hobby and this is all for fun. Please, don't take any of this personally and don't resort to insults. If this gets accepted, yay, if it gets rejected, oh well. It doesn't matter. Don't let it ruin your day and don't take anything done here personally.

At the end of the day, we're all here to have fun discussing petty nerd shit. But don't let it get you down if you lose.
expect me to quote this if things get out of hand, I don't take online debating seriously, it is absolutely not something to get worked up over
 
i state in the OP that i barely touch comic books, but it is good to be wiser on the matter

because i suck at CRT's and have barely any knowledge on DC, as i said above i would be up for downgrading superman if there are enough tier 5 feats going against him
It's fine if you don't have knowledge on DC, I myself stopped reading a comics awhile ago when Perpetua was first introduced, but I feel it makes your arguments stronger if you have the context ya know?
 
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