Super Saiyan God Multipler

[Sir_Marvulous]

Please also ignore Omen as I was unaware of the Super Scaling (which we need a blog for)

I have a blog for it but its not updated with the Grade 3 multiplier

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

It’s ultimately related to the topic at hand.

You cannot establish a static SSG multiplier off potara because its shown to perform inconsistently against it.

BoG Goku assumed a fusion between an SS2 and SS3 wouldn’t be enough to measure up to a held back Beerus which SSG did.

ToP Goku struggled in SSG against a potara base fusion of two characters who are relative in power to his current SS2.

Just because the power levels are higher in the ToP it doesn’t change the fact that the power ratios between forms are the same.

You're punching air at this point

 

[XXBenShapiroXx]

If we are gonna start arguing that Base Vegito isn't above SSJ3 Goku then I genuinely have lost hope for humanity.

 

[AwkguyDB]

Like I don’t understand these arguments. These arguments are against how the wiki portrays both Fusion and SSJG. It sounds like these need to be CRTs made outside this thread because Imma say it one more time

SSJG > POTARA IS NOT BEING ARGUED

SSJG Goku of the Battle of Gods arc was objectively above a hypothetical Pre Ritual Vegito who is stated to be above SSJ3 Goku outright and should at least have a SSJ2 form due to both Goku and Vegeta having it and the manga and daizenshuu claiming both fusion variants retain the fusees powers and techniques.

POST RITUAL VEGITO > SSJG BECAUSE GOKU WOULD NOW HAVE A HIGHER MAX POWER

 

[AwkguyDB]

Matter of fact Old Kaioshin confirms that Goku theoretically could be a SSJ3 and fuse with potras but that it would have grave consequences on their life force.

 

[TheGodOfICE777]

It’s ultimately related to the topic at hand.

You cannot establish a static SSG multiplier off potara because its shown to perform inconsistently against it.

BoG Goku assumed a fusion between an SS2 and SS3 wouldn’t be enough to measure up to a held back Beerus which SSG did.

ToP Goku struggled in SSG against a potara base fusion of two characters who are relative in power to his current SS2.

Just because the power levels are higher in the ToP it doesn’t change the fact that the power ratios between forms are the same.

Has bro not been reading our comments… potara‘s multiplier is dependent on the user it’s A*B and we can safely say at that point
Vegito SSJ3>Vegito Base>SSJ3 Goku

And goku thinking he could actually win when he first tapped into ssjg meaning ssjg at that point is stronger thaj Vegito ssj3

SSJG Goku>Vegito SSJ3>Vegito Base>SSJ3 Goku

But as we established potara is A*B meaning the result is dependent on the strength of both users Kefla and Vegito being stronger than their individual counterparts in ssjg or ssjb means they’re powers multiplied is just beyond SSJG’s multiplier at that point which weirdly makes sense if you realize the tiers they are when they fuse

If we are gonna start arguing that Base Vegito isn't above SSJ3 Goku then I genuinely have lost hope for humanity.

Daizenshuu says otherwise so base Vegito>ssj3 goku

 

[Omegas03]

Because they're reliant on Beerus scaling and Gogeta Blue is stronger than Broly who is about equal with Beerus meanwhile UIO Goku is an entire effortless one-shot above Beerus due to scaling to Jiren whose ki blast would've easily crushed his own GoD with the sheer force of it

Let's not get too into this because that would be derailing

UI is so stupidly broken like what the **** bro just stacked an bigger than SSB multiplier over SSB and this is not even taking in account that DBSB Goku is also > ToP Goku

 

[DivineAura44]

Been like 20 years and DMs still arguing whether or not Base Vegito is stronger than SSJ3 Goku? Like be fr, why tf would they say he can transform after the fact if only the transformed state was stronger? They would mention he can transform and they mention that while in that state he is stronger. This is also backed up by Vegito being stronger than Goku in the anime. Please stop.

 

[Omegas03]

lets just not ******* forget that in the super manga Base Vegito outperformed Complete SSB Goku which further proves base fusion >>>>> fusees' accessible full power (SSJ for the kids in DBZ, SSJ3 for Goku in Z and SSB for Goku in Super plus Base Kefla>>> Berserker Kale) i don't know how this is a debate.

 

[Omegas03]

I am also siding neutral here.

honestly, SSG multiplier being the same after the ritual feels odd. Goku absorbed the SSG power into his base, for it then to STILL have that seemingly infinite increase it had in BoG? The initial god increase being 500x500 makes absolute sense, but that's it for me. SSG doesn't feel like as an exaggerated multiplier over SSJ3 in the ToP like it did in BoG but that's just my opinion.

UIO+MUI multiplier makes sense from what I can see but it at least being x20 SSB as a lowball still works

 

[DivineAura44]

I am also siding neutral here.

honestly, SSG multiplier being the same after the ritual feels odd. Goku absorbed the SSG power into his base, for it then to STILL have that seemingly infinite increase it had in BoG? The initial god increase being 500x500 makes absolute sense, but that's it for me. SSG doesn't feel like as an exaggerated multiplier over SSJ3 in the ToP like it did in BoG but that's just my opinion.

UIO+MUI multiplier makes sense from what I can see but it at least being x20 SSB as a lowball still works

This is often a point of contention. What did absorbed in to his base mean? There are 2 interpretations. He either absorbed the power into his base or the form. There is the power logic and it is now his new base (as if he is stacking the power) but there’s also the logic that he has absorbed the form into his base also known as the SBG form. This probably shouldn’t be discussed in this thread though.

 

[SSJGeminiJJ]

We've gone over in a few threads that his Base simply absorbed/surpassed the power of SSJG, not that he absorbed the actual form or God Ki in itself. It's actually what kept a BoG SSJG Base Goku post ep. 14 from being downgraded and considered a one-time thing even though he later uses the red hair transformation in the ToP.

 

[denisnic55]

I personally think that a fusion's base form is going to be always stronger than the fusee's strongest form. This is shown everytime a fusion appears in the show.

Base Gogeta > SSB Goku
Base Kefla > SS Berserk Kale
Base Gotenks > SS Trunks

It is also stated in the Daizenshuu that Vegito surpasses Super Saiyan 3 Goku. Goku didn't even consider using it against Beerus, but he thinks he stood a chance with SSG.

SSG Goku > SS3 Vegito > SS2 Vegito > SS 3G Vegito (10x)> SS 2G Vegito > SS Vegito (50x)> Base Vegito > SS3 Goku > SS2 Goku > SS 3G Goku (10x)> SS 2G Goku > SS Goku (50x)> Base Goku

Bare minimum that would be a 500 times 500 multiplier for SSG. Which would be 250000x.

I feel the same

 

[Golden_Void]

Been like 20 years and DMs still arguing whether or not Base Vegito is stronger than SSJ3 Goku? Like be fr, why tf would they say he can transform after the fact if only the transformed state was stronger? They would mention he can transform and they mention that while in that state he is stronger. This is also backed up by Vegito being stronger than Goku in the anime. Please stop.

Contrarians being wrong as usual.

 

[TheGodOfICE777]

lets just not ******* forget that in the super manga Base Vegito outperformed Complete SSB Goku which further proves base fusion >>>>> fusees' accessible full power (SSJ for the kids in DBZ, SSJ3 for Goku in Z and SSB for Goku in Super plus Base Kefla>>> Berserker Kale) i don't know how this is a debate.

I am also siding neutral here.

honestly, SSG multiplier being the same after the ritual feels odd. Goku absorbed the SSG power into his base, for it then to STILL have that seemingly infinite increase it had in BoG? The initial god increase being 500x500 makes absolute sense, but that's it for me. SSG doesn't feel like as an exaggerated multiplier over SSJ3 in the ToP like it did in BoG but that's just my opinion.

UIO+MUI multiplier makes sense from what I can see but it at least being x20 SSB as a lowball still works

How did you miss the entire crt?

we’ve explained this countless times fusion is A*B THAT JUST MEANS Goku’s strength x Vegeta’s strength is above the multiplier of SSJB while that wasn’t the case Pre ritual

 

[Omegas03]

How did you miss the entire crt?

we’ve explained this countless times fusion is A*B THAT JUST MEANS Goku’s strength x Vegeta’s strength is above the multiplier of SSJB while that wasn’t the case Pre ritual

wtf but that's just what I said

 

[AwkguyDB]

Vegito's Post Ritual Multiplier (SSJG max power) > Vegito Pre Ritual Multiplier (SSJ3 max power)

SSJG at it's initial form with no boost scales above Pre Ritual Vegito

 

[Omegabronic]

Vegito's Post Ritual Multiplier (SSJG max power) > Vegito Pre Ritual Multiplier (SSJ3 max power)

SSJG at it's initial form with no boost scales above Pre Ritual Vegito

oh so the proposal is not a fixied fusion multiplier? change me to agree then

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

oh so the proposal is not a fixied fusion multiplier? change me to agree then

Why did it take
so many of you
so long
to realize this? ​

 

[Omegabronic]

Why did it take
so many of you
so long
to realize this? ​

you know what they say "db fans can't read"

 

[TheGodOfICE777]

wtf but that's just what I said

You said SSG ritual being the same after the ritual is weird when it should logically be the same we just don’t know the multiplier but we can apply a lowball that isn’t a fixed multiplier similar to SSJB if you said fusion isn’t the same then you would’ve been right because

A*B * SSJ3 Multiplier > SSJG (Pre Ritual since they haven’t gotten as strong yet)

A*B > SSJB (Post Ritual) because they’ve gotten so strong that their powers multiplied is stronger than the multiplier of blue

oh so the proposal is not a fixied fusion multiplier? change me to agree then

… I’m glad you realize now but this is a bruh moment

you know what they say "db fans can't read"

And sonic fans

 

[Padaruyos]

Glad we can agree on that. Also I tried calculating some multipliers if this got through.

SS: 50x
SS 2G - SS3: >500x
Buu Saga Vegito Fusion: >500x
Buu Saga SS 2G Vegito >250000x
SSG: >250.000x
SSB: >12.500.000x
SSBKKx20: >250.000.000x
Base Broly Saga Gogeta: >12.500.000x
SSB Broly Saga Gogeta: >156.250.000.000.000x

 

[AguilaR202]

How did you miss the entire crt?

we’ve explained this countless times fusion is A*B THAT JUST MEANS Goku’s strength x Vegeta’s strength is above the multiplier of SSJB while that wasn’t the case Pre ritual

Except this isn’t how vados explains potara, her formula being explicitly A+B x10s of times individual PL.

you’re all just picking one of the many fusion multipliers we are told through guides and the show itself to fit your narrative without actually addressing why a*b is more valid or even makes a lick of sense.

 

[Padaruyos]

Have you considered the possibility of the As and Bs in Vados's statement referring to the fusee's peak strength? Not their base form strength?

Base Gogeta is way stronger than SSB Goku. Meaning the fusion multiplier for that specific fusion is larger than the boost provided by SSB. SSB is a bare minimum 2500x multiplier (as what's accepted in the wiki currently). Using Vados's statement, if the statement refers to the fusee's base form being added before multiplied, then Base Gogeta wouldn't even come close to SSB Goku. (1+1x100 = 2000)

But if Vados's statement refers to the fusee's peak strength being added before multiplied for the new base, then it would make sense. (SSB + SSB at least x10 = 20 SSBs)

 

[AwkguyDB]

The only thing at this point left to argue is if SSJG ritual surpasses SSJG multiplier which that would honestly be more head canon then the actual truth. Remember Goku even with the ritual hit a 100% threshold and then had the power for himself by retaining the power through fusion with his being. The Boost is more of Saiyan Biology and Goku's stupidly strong willpower to keep going than it is anything with SSJG itself in honesty.

SSJG ritual should be consistent with the SSJG multiplier due to it be referenced in Goku's achievement of SSJB, King Kai makes it clear that the ritual and the casual form are the same thing only "he did it without people." and Goku says he is a Saiyan with the powers of a Super Saiyan God who is Super Saiyan

So at the end of the day the ritual and the form are the same at the very least at the rituals initial stage.

 

[TimmyTurnero]

Have you considered the possibility of the As and Bs in Vados's statement referring to the fusee's peak strength? Not their base form strength?

Base Gogeta is way stronger than SSB Goku. Meaning the fusion multiplier for that specific fusion is larger than the boost provided by SSB. SSB is a bare minimum 2500x multiplier (as what's accepted in the wiki currently). Using Vados's statement, if the statement refers to the fusee's base form being added before multiplied, then Base Gogeta wouldn't even come close to SSB Goku. (1+1x100 = 2000)

But if Vados's statement refers to the fusee's peak strength being added before multiplied for the new base, then it would make sense. (SSB + SSB at least x10 = 20 SSBs)

The same would be true if its 2+2x100 that’s 4000 or superior to ssjb. I think we should take Vados statement above any guidebook

 

[Padaruyos]

The same would be true if its 2+2x100 that’s 4000 or superior to ssjb. I think we should take Vados statement above any guidebook

Why is it 2 instead of 1? Base Goku/Vegeta is 1.

And keep in mind that currently we treat the increase of SS2, SS3, and SSG as non-existent. That 2500x multiplier is just SS * SS instead of SSG * SS like it's supposed to be.

 

[Padaruyos]

Oh shit. 1+1x100 is just 200, not 2000. I can't do math + L + Ratio + I'm dumb + I have skill issue + I'm maidenless.

 

[XXBenShapiroXx]

Oh shit. 1+1x100 is just 200, not 2000. I can't do math + L + Ratio + I'm dumb + I have skill issue + I'm maidenless.

Bro ain't doin so hot rn

 

[Omegabronic]

thinking about it now, isn't vados' statement with more credit due to being said in the main cannon itself instead of secondary cannon like guides?

 

[AwkguyDB]

Btw the Vegito justification would be for the anime but we can use Gotenks going from Base to SSJ3 to support that the SSJG multiplier should be at least 10x SSJ3 since SSJ Gotenks is stronger than SSJ3 Buu Saga Goku. Goku does make the claim of it being "a new world that just opened up to him" and even is shocked that he's become that level of power and that it "still isn't enough." I don't think Goku would make such a statement if Vegito was a better alternative. He also makes that claim to Toppo too that SSJG is an "entirely different level" which Toppo responded with his own Aura of Divine power to match up against Goku.

So SSJG being a "new world of power" and an "entirely different level" should keep it consistent with being stronger than Vegito

 

[Padaruyos]

thinking about it now, isn't vados' statement with more credit due to being said in the main cannon itself instead of secondary cannon like guides?

It would be I think. But again, adding the fusees base form then multiplying it tens of times won't make it surpass the fusees strongest form. Only adding the fusees's strongest form will.

Base form: 1
Since we're using Vados's statement which is the two fusees added together and then multiplied tens of times, I'll use (A+B) x 100 as a highball.

Buu Saga Vegito is stronger than Super Saiyan 3 Goku. (At least 500x)
Adding base forms: 1+1x100 = 200. Doesn't even surpass SS 3G, let alone SS2 or SS3.

Base Gotenks is stronger than SS Goten/Trunks (At least 50x)
Adding base forms: 1+1x100 = 200.
This is the only plausible one since Gotenks himself isn't that strong.

Base Kefla is stronger than LSS Kale, and when using Super Saiyan she one shotted SSBKK Goku. (Vastly above 500000x as SS (assuming Goku's using SSBKKx2) downscaling to Base would get her 10000x)
Adding base forms: 1+1x100 = 200.
Again, not even close.

Base Gogeta is far stronger than SSB Goku. (Vastly above 250000x in base)
Adding base forms: 1+1x100 = 200.
Not even close.

Conclusion: Either Vados's statement is a massive understatement. Or Vados is referring to the fusees peak power being added and then multiplied for the fusion's base form.

 

[AwkguyDB]

Conclusion: Either Vados's statement is a massive understatement. Or Vados is referring to the fusees peak power being added and then multiplied for the fusion's base form.

The latter being consistent with the Daizenshuu

 

[TheGodOfICE777]

Except this isn’t how vados explains potara, her formula being explicitly A+B x10s of times individual PL.

you’re all just picking one of the many fusion multipliers we are told through guides and the show itself to fit your narrative without actually addressing why a*b is more valid or even makes a lick of sense.

She just says Kefla’s power multiplied their power by tens of times which can have different interpretations and we can’t get a good estimate from this many guides have stated it’s A*B even the anime (though it doesn’t matter as much) tens of times doesn’t mean much without additional context there is no formula Vados gives

 

[Omegabronic]

okay then, so it would be:

Base vegeto = SSJ3 goku(at least 500x) + SSJ2 vegeta(at least 500x) * 20(tens of times according to vados, so more than 1 ten) = 500 + 500 * 20 = 20.000x multipliers
which makes SSJB = 1.000.000x multiplier

 

[Omegabronic]

She just says Kefla’s power multiplied their power by tens of times which can have different interpretations and we can’t get a good estimate from this many guides have stated it’s A*B

we can't use A*B due to calc stacking issues, besides, the only guide shown states that vegeto becomes stronger than ssj3 goku, it doesn't give a fixed multiplier, plus it combining the power of the 2 fusses strongest forms and then multiplying also gets this result and still stays consistent with everything else

even the anime (though it doesn’t matter as much) tens of times doesn’t mean much without additional context there is no formula Vados gives

tens of times, so more than 1 ten, aka at least 20x to be conservative

 

[Padaruyos]

The main takeaway here is that fusion is always stronger than the fusees's strongest forms. Everytime a fusion appears on screen this always applies. The fusion boost is either going to be

AxB, meaning the power boost of fusion increases drastically as the fusees's base power increases. For example, let's say Goku and Vegeta fuse into Vegito after growing 100 times stronger.
10 x 10 = 100
1000 x 1000 = 1.000.000
Vegito is now 10000x stronger despite Goku only growing 100x stronger.

OR A + B x tens of times. Which A and B being the fusees's peak power. I've already made the examples in my previous post.

For SSG multiplier, the lowball would be just scaling it vastly above a hypothetical SS 3G Vegito. Which would be a 250000x multiplier.

 

[AwkguyDB]

okay then, so it would be:

Base vegeto = SSJ3 goku(at least 500x) + SSJ2 vegeta(at least 500x) * 20(tens of times according to vados, so more than 1 ten) = 500 + 500 * 20 = 20.000x multipliers
which makes SSJB = 1.000.000x multiplier

Well assuming SSJG is as strong as Base Vegito which it should be stronger than SSJ Vegito since that's the amount of power he put out in the manga and even SSJ2 Vegito based on the Daizenshuu and the fact that both Vegeta and Goku have a SSJ2.

 

[Omegabronic]

The main takeaway here is that fusion is always stronger than the fusees's strongest forms. Everytime a fusion appears on screen this always applies. The fusion boost is either going to be

AxB, meaning the power boost of fusion increases drastically as the fusees's base power increases. For example, let's say Goku and Vegeta fuse into Vegito after growing 100 times stronger.
10 x 10 = 100
1000 x 1000 = 1.000.000
Vegito is now 10000x stronger despite Goku only growing 100x stronger.

OR A + B x tens of times. Which A and B being the fusees's peak power. I've already made the examples in my previous post.

AxB we can't do due to calc stacking, since their ap come from calculations in their pre BoGs moment

A + B x tens of times is more comparible with vados' statement anyway, so it is fine to be used i think

 

[Omegabronic]

Well assuming SSJG is as strong as Base Vegito which it should be stronger than SSJ Vegito since that's the amount of power he put out in the manga and even SSJ2 Vegito based on the Daizenshuu and the fact that both Vegeta and Goku have a SSJ2.

yeah, i did that, goku's ssj3 power + vegeta's ssj2 power * tens of times, or 20x to be conservative