Super Saiyan God Multipler

[AwkguyDB]

Super Saiyan God Multipler

It was accepted here that Super Saiyan Grade 3 is 10x SSJ meaning we now have a SSJ2 multiplier to scale. With SSJ2 having a multiplier SSJ3 would by default scale above that said multiplier meaning:

SSJ: 50
SSJ2 - SSJ3: 500x

Super Saiyan God = 500x SSJ3

Super Saiyan God now would have something to scale to as far as multipliers go due to being stronger than a hypothetical Pre Ritual BoG Vegito

And before anyone pulls the argument between Fusions multiplier and SSJG’s let me redirect you to what was explained by AKM in
this thread. As far as the wiki is concerned:

Fusion is only stronger than the max power of the Fusees at the time of Fusion which is supported by 2 entries in Daizenshuu 7 and 4

TLDR:
Based on Daizenshuu 4 and 7:

Potara >= Fusion > Power of the Fusees at the time of Fusion.

Kefla surpassing Goku in power has everything to do with Kale > Caulifa, due to holding her own against SSJG Goku. While yes Goku no sold some of her attacks it is extremely plausible for Caulifa’s power being added on top of hers to shift the battle in their favor and thus Base Kefla > SSJ2 Kale.

Regardless Goku in his SSJG form was objectively stronger than Vegito prior to ritual, in otherwords:

Since,
Base Vegito > SSJ3 Goku

and

SSJG > Vegito entirely (Base - SSJ3)

that means

SSJ3 -> SSJG > 500x Base Vegito

Conclusion:
SSJG = 500x SSJ3 or 250,000x Base because Vegito would have to have a SSJ2 transformation.

500 x 500 = 250,000x Base Goku
Simply Vegito's Base scaling to SSJ3 Goku and stacking SSJ2 on top of his Base

Agree: (TheGodOfIce777; LuffyRuffy46307; The_Yellow_Topaz; King Nanaya; Shadyboi0; XXBenShapiroXX; K_o_karlyn; omegabronic; SSJGeminiJJ; DDM; AguilaR202; Lord Griffon )

Disagree: ;

Neutral: ( Guacamolefletcher; JirensMom ; Omegas03

 

[Guacamolefletcher]

disagree, part of it is the ritual, you can't explain how much of it is what

 

[TheGodOfICE777]

disagree, part of it is the ritual, you can't explain how much of it is what

So you’re arguing that the boost is from the ritual and not SSJG itself? I disagree with that assessment as the whole reason he got stronger was due to the god ki itself and not because of the ritual because when the ritual initially failed he did get stronger but it wasn’t that much of a boost because he just had the energy of the others but when the ritual succeeded it was stronger due to SSJG itself

So I agree with the crt

 

[Guacamolefletcher]

So you’re arguing that the boost is from the ritual and not SSJG itself? I disagree with that assessment as the whole reason he got stronger was due to the god ki itself and not because of the ritual because when the ritual initially failed he did get stronger but it wasn’t that much of a boost because he just had the energy of the others but when the ritual succeeded it was stronger due to SSJG itself

We don't know how much is the boost and how much is the ritual and how much is saiyan adaptation

 

[TheGodOfICE777]

We don't know how much is the boost and how much is the ritual and how much is saiyan adaptation

When Goku turned into SSJG he was immediate confident that he could beat Beerus with this power but didn’t think a hypothetical Vegito ssj3 at full power would do a difference so adaptation has no involvement with this

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

I fully agree with that

 

[Guacamolefletcher]

Actually, change me to neutral on both

 

[AwkguyDB]

We don't know how much is the boost and how much is the ritual and how much is saiyan adaptation

The initial SSJG is what's being assessed here, how strong he got through boost over time is extremely irrelevant. What matters is if initial SSJG Goku with zero boost or even control over his own power is greater than the SSJG that's casually used which is not proven to be the case anywhere nor is consistent with any DB transformation, and Goku in RoF directly states that all Super Saiyan Blue is in concept is just SSJ on SSJG, the same form that was used in the BoG arc.

 

[AwkguyDB]

Btw SSJG > BoG Vegito would no doubt include SSJ2 regardless which would make SSJG, 500x SSJ3. Just wanted to add this because I was originally trying to play safe with Super Vegito but that's too safe to assume and would go against the Daizenshuu entries I linked.

 

[JirensMom]

Neutral on the SSJG multiplier
You should just use Super Vegito and not SSJ2 and 3

Agree on the Ui Omen one though

 

[Damage3245]

With SSJ2 having a multiplier SSJ3 would by default scale above that said multiplier meaning:

Err, why? You can't just say "by default", you need to give a reason and evidence.

EDIT: I took this to mean that you were saying that SSJ3 would be a 10x multiplier on SSJ2.

 

[AwkguyDB]

Neutral on the SSJG multiplier
You should just use Super Vegito and not SSJ2 and 3

Agree on the Ui Omen one though

Like I said the Daizenshuu describes fusion (Metamor and Potara) as taking the power and techniques of the fighters and combines them. Both Goku and Vegeta are capable of going Grade 3 and SSJ2 it would mean that Vegito should do the same

 

[AwkguyDB]

Err, why? You can't just say "by default", you need to give a reason and evidence.

EDIT: I took this to mean that you were saying that SSJ3 would be a 10x multiplier on SSJ2.

Oh yeah no, basically I am saying SSJ3 >= 500x because its objectively superior to SSJ2's 500x by an unknown amount.

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

Just FYI, UIO multiplier scaling is redundant because it scales above Gogeta Blue who in base is already stronger than SSB Goku & Vegeta combined, meaning UIO is more than (twice the SSB multiplier) * Super Saiyan Blue

 

[Guacamolefletcher]

You should just use Super Vegito and not SSJ2 and 3

TBH, Vegito not having access to SSJ2 makes no sense, considering we know both Goku and Vegeta have it, and Vegito being able to fight Beerus while in SSJ2 seems extremely farfetched to me.

 

[Guacamolefletcher]

Just FYI, UIO multiplier scaling is redundant because it scales above Gogeta Blue who in base is already stronger than SSB Goku & Vegeta combined, meaning its over (twice the SSB multiplier) * Super Saiyan Blue

Why is UI omen above gogeta blue?

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

Why is UI omen above gogeta blue?

Because they're reliant on Beerus scaling and Gogeta Blue is stronger than Broly who is about equal with Beerus meanwhile UIO Goku is an entire effortless one-shot above Beerus due to scaling to Jiren whose ki blast would've easily crushed his own GoD with the sheer force of it

Let's not get too into this because that would be derailing

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

The gist of it is, there's no reason for the UIO multiplier in the OP to go through because its a massive downgrade from what it currently is

 

[AguilaR202]

Hard disagree on set multiplier for SSG, it is literally surpassed by a base potara fusion during the ToP so the entire argument of it ever being static in relation to potara amp is unsubstantiated.

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

Hard disagree on set multiplier for SSG, it is literally surpassed by a base potara fusion during the ToP so the entire argument of it ever being static in relation to potara amp is unsubstantiated.

Bro he literally debunked this argument in the OP with AKM's message that refuted the argument in the past

Fusion is the combined strength of the fusees' maximum powers (in this case, their Super Saiyan forms)

Before god training, it wouldn't have surpassed the multiplier of Super Saiyan God. But now it does because they're divine mortals

 

[AguilaR202]

Bro he literally debunked this argument in the OP with one of AKM's points

Fusion is the combined strength of the fusees' maximum powers (in this case, their Super Saiyan forms)

Before god training, it wouldn't have been enough. But now it is because they're divine mortals

That’s doesn’t debunk anything.
Kefla was the result of two characters at the level of SS2 Goku, if SSG was an static multiplier he would have stomped them regardless because that’s the highest forms he was working with originally when going up against Beerus.

higher power levels don’t change the relation on power SSJ will always be 50x regardless of how strong base Goku Gets, same applies with kale and caulifla.

 

[Damage3245]

Fusion is the combined strength of the fusees' maximum powers (in this case, their Super Saiyan forms)

Where in the manga is this stated?

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

That’s doesn’t debunk anything.
Kefla was the result of two characters at the level of SS2 Goku, if SSG was an static multiplier he would have stomped them regardless because that’s the highest forms he was working with originally when going up against Beerus.

higher power levels don’t change the relation on power SSJ will always be 50x regardless of how strong base Goku Gets, same applies with kale and caulifla.

He quite literally pointed out that Kale at her fullest held her own against Super Saiyan God Goku. SS2 Caulifla's power getting added to that and then magnified making the fusion's base stronger than SSG Goku isn't farfetched

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

Where in the manga is this stated?

Read the linked thread in the OP. The point of Fusion has historically been to surpass the maximum of the fusees, as pointed out by AKM and a few others

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

OP even supported it by linking scans from the Daizenshuu

 

[AwkguyDB]

Yeah this is all based on AKM's standards and both Daizenshuu 7 and 4. These arguments were absolutely considered before making this

 

[AguilaR202]

He quite literally pointed out that Kale at her fullest held her own against Super Saiyan God Goku. SS2 Caulifla's power getting added to that and then magnified making the fusion's base stronger than SSG Goku isn't farfetched

Bullcrap , one atatata exchange doesn’t mean jack, Goku literally walked through Keflas beam attack unguarded and took 0 damage, and made her shit herself trying to deflect a casual energy ball, that was only just strong enough to incapacitate a SS2, and not even knock her out of the form.

 

[Damage3245]

Read the linked thread in the OP. The point of Fusion has historically been to surpass the maximum of the fusees, as pointed out by AKM and a few others

To be fair I don't see a single scan given in evidence on that thread.

 

[AwkguyDB]

Because they're reliant on Beerus scaling and Gogeta Blue is stronger than Broly who is about equal with Beerus meanwhile UIO Goku is an entire effortless one-shot above Beerus due to scaling to Jiren whose ki blast would've easily crushed his own GoD with the sheer force of it

Let's not get too into this because that would be derailing

Ok so basically he's above the gap between Gogeta Blue and Goku Blue which is a SSJB on SSJB amp

 

[AwkguyDB]

To be fair I don't see a single scan given in evidence on that thread.

That's more of an AKM problem than it is my problem isn't it? AKM justified closing that thread because his answer was sufficient enough regardless of evidence. Not saying I agree with that but that's how you guys work sometimes on the threads. AKM being an admin would have the wiki's standards in mind

 

[omegabronic]

Yeah this is all based on AKM's standards and both Daizenshuu 7 and 4. These arguments were absolutely considered before making this

if it is about what akm said wouldn't be better to call him for he to give his opinion instead of talking for him?

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

if it is about what akm said wouldn't be better to call him for he to give his opinion instead of talking for him?

Its not really talking for him OP just linked one of his past arguments

Also you won't be getting anywhere anyway because AKM has lost interest in Dragon Ball

 

[AwkguyDB]

if it is about what akm said wouldn't be better to call him for he to give his opinion instead of talking for him?

Completely unnecessary if I literally have his opinion on the matter linked, I am not talking for him he's speaking for himself literally

 

[omegabronic]

Completely unnecessary if I literally have his opinion on the matter linked, I am not talking for him he's speaking for himself literally

Its not really talking for him OP just linked one of his past arguments

Also you won't be getting anywhere anyway because AKM has lost interest in Dragon Ball

okay then, it still feels a little weird but, i guess you guys are right

 

[AwkguyDB]

okay then, it still feels a little weird but, i guess you guys are right

If AKM changed his mind we will let him make a CRT Revising his own statements lol

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

To be fair I don't see a single scan given in evidence on that thread.

Also this is remedied by the scans in this CRT flatout saying that fusion is intended to be above the maximum capabilities of the fusees, with no set multiplier

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

You should strikethrough the UIO section because as I already pointed out it would just downgrade the current multiplier

 

[omegabronic]

You should strikethrough the UIO section because as I already pointed out it would just downgrade the current multiplier

if it downgrades or not is not the problem, explain why the current one is more accurate

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

if it downgrades or not is not the problem, explain why the current one is more accurate

Because they're reliant on Beerus scaling and Gogeta Blue is stronger than Broly who is about equal with Beerus meanwhile UIO Goku is an entire effortless one-shot above Beerus due to scaling to Jiren whose ki blast would've easily crushed his own GoD with the sheer force of it

That is exactly what I did

 

[omegabronic]

That is exactly what I did

i don't see how that explains why the suggested multiplier in the op is not acurate in comparison to the current one