Super Saiyan God Multipler

[TimmyTurnero]

Wait, sorry, I confused myself on the fusion multiplier.
It’s outcome could be far greater than previous fusions (in terms of the multiplication) based on the base forms. I had an oopses, but i disagree with the omen multiplier.

 

[TheGodOfICE777]

Ik, but his means of doing so I disagree with. If this is accepted, then we shouldn’t say its strongest form x strongest form, as this much is unknown.

I agree that the stronger their base is, the stronger the fusion is.

Yeah the first part isn’t what’s being suggested SSJG is just gonna be SSJ3 x SSJ3 in terms of multiplier from upscaling Vegito ssj3 i think it’d be easier if we just argued that since I can see where you’re coming from

Good I’m just etching this into peoples head because they’re base kefla beat ssjg goku

For what reason exactly?
Caulifla and Kale went from ssj2 Goku level to above ssjg level in base form, while suppressed. This shouldn’t be possible.

Wait, sorry, I confused myself on the fusion multiplier.
It’s outcome could be far greater than previous fusions (in terms of the multiplication) based on the base forms. I had an oopses, but i disagree with the omen multiplier.

Was finna say…

what do you disagree about omen?

 

[TimmyTurnero]

what do you disagree about omen?

Ssj Kefla is notably weaker than SSJBKK Goku, she shouldn’t scale to “one shotting him”.
Omen is also said to be ineffective against Kefla, and we know she was holding back and only went all out towards the end. This all out Kefla was not only noted to being able to one shot Goku, but possibly kill him.

 

[XXBenShapiroXx]

This entire debate seems to be on if we use A x B or A + B x 20+ as fusion's multiplier.

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

Why tf are y'all still discussing Omen when it got taken out of the OP?

 

[TimmyTurnero]

Why tf are y'all still discussing Omen when it got taken out of the OP?

Forgot.

 

[TimmyTurnero]

This entire debate seems to be on if we use A x B or A + B x 20+ as fusion's multiplier.

Along with whether its their base forms or their strongest.

 

[TheGodOfICE777]

Ssj Kefla is notably weaker than SSJBKK Goku, she shouldn’t scale to “one shotting him”.
Omen is also said to be ineffective against Kefla, and we know she was holding back and only went all out towards the end. This all out Kefla was not only noted to being able to one shot Goku, but possibly kill him.

SSJ Kefla isn’t weaker and literally did one shot him

I see your point there but Omen was atleast stronger than SSJ and I see where your contention is here because of those powered up beams that Kefla did and would’ve killed him with the beams but normally Ui goku should outscale and knocked her out with his kamehameha so I’m probably neutral on omen

This entire debate seems to be on if we use A x B or A + B x 20+ as fusion's multiplier.

A*B has support from the guide so definitely that the second one has 0 support and relies on heavy assumptions

 

[TheGodOfICE777]

Why tf are y'all still discussing Omen when it got taken out of the OP?

Oh I didn’t even notice

 

[The_Yellow_Topaz]

I never said this? What? I said, if the fusion already produces a boost multiplying their maximum powers then going ssj first to gain a greater boost is dubious. It completely goes against that belief. Regardless, this doesn’t really effect anything.

This was only asked of them because they thought they couldn't go Super Saiyan after fusing

 

[The_Yellow_Topaz]

Bruh you’re arguing that fusion is less than 100x multiplier than

I'm explaning to you what "tens of times" means. I never said that statement was the best representation of the transformation.

 

[omegabronic]

Bruh you’re arguing that fusion is less than 100x multiplier than

This kinda just proves what I’ve already said Potara is A * B

Instead of joules x joules it should just be whatever last quantifiable BP was x itself for a lowballed potara fusion since it’d be a good lowball and is consistent with what we’re shown but sadly like how Ssj is stated to multiply your bp by 50x

no he’s scaling base potara to above ssj3 and then ssj3 on top of it which would be weaker than ssjg at that point due to potara being A*B
There’s no set multiplier it’s similar to how we get SSJB’s “multiplier”

Though I can see your point notging suggests it’s the strongest form stuff like implied but the statement is still A*B A*B at one point in time can be weaker than the ssjg multiplier and then in another point of time be stronger than the SSJG multipled making it consistent which is what I take you agree with?

Conclusion
Vegito SSJ3 (Doesn’t matter if you do Vegito ssj2 since same multiplier but ssj3 makes more sense)>Vegito Base>SSJ3>SSJ2 multiplier

Therefore ssjg is whatever 1k*1k is too lazy to do the math

If it is A*B then we can't use it at all since it would fall under calc stacking with the ap values

 

[TheGodOfICE777]

I'm explaning to you what "tens of times" means. I never said that statement was the best representation of the transformation.

Fair enough but tens of times can be 3 digits or more still just because it says tens of times doesn’t automatically disqualify it from being higher

If it is A*B then we can't use it at all since it would fall under calc stacking with the ap values

I said we shouldn’t do joules x joules …

 

[omegabronic]

Fair enough but tens of times can be 3 digits or more still just because it says tens of times doesn’t automatically disqualify it from being higher

I said we shouldn’t do joules x joules …

Then what do we do?

 

[TheGodOfICE777]

Then what do we do?

If Goku transforming into SSJG Goku> Base Goku x Base Vegeta which creates Vegito’s base who’s stronger than SSJ3 Goku and with another SSJ3 boost
Then we simply do SSJ3 x SSJ3 to get a lowballed multiplier
Like how SSJB is SSJG SSJ so we did SSJG x SSJ tho ssjg would just upscale Ssj2’s multiplier

 

[omegabronic]

If Goku transforming into SSJG Goku> Base Goku x Base Vegeta which creates Vegito’s base who’s stronger than SSJ3

What is the scan for base vegeto>ssj3 goku again?

Like how SSJB is SSJG SSJ so we did SSJG x SSJ tho ssjg would just upscale Ssj2’s multiplier

Ssjb it was because he was using ssj1 on top of another ssj form

 

[The_Yellow_Topaz]

Fair enough but tens of times can be 3 digits or more still just because it says tens of times doesn’t automatically disqualify it from being higher

I just explained to you why it does...
"Tens of times" is talking explicitly about all numbers within two decimal places. Anything higher than 99 has three decimal places, and thus are not 'tens of times' but "hundreds of times", hundreds meaning three decimal places.

The statement is actually just limiting.

 

[TheGodOfICE777]

What is the scan for base vegeto>ssj3 goku again?



Ssjb it was because he was using ssj1 on top of another ssj form

it’s in the daizenshuu and in the anime and manga Iirc

Its practically the same here except it’s ssj3

 

[K_o_Karlyn]

Agree

 

[TimmyTurnero]

it’s in the daizenshuu and in the anime and manga Iirc

Its practically the same here except it’s ssj3

If it means anything SSJ3 Goku was prepared to duke it with Buuhan and could react to attacks from it.

 

[omegabronic]

it’s in the daizenshuu and in the anime and manga Iirc

We kind of need the scan here if we will use this logic

 

[Padaruyos]

I personally think that a fusion's base form is going to be always stronger than the fusee's strongest form. This is shown everytime a fusion appears in the show.

Base Gogeta > SSB Goku
Base Kefla > SS Berserk Kale
Base Gotenks > SS Trunks

It is also stated in the Daizenshuu that Vegito surpasses Super Saiyan 3 Goku. Goku didn't even consider using it against Beerus, but he thinks he stood a chance with SSG.

SSG Goku > SS3 Vegito > SS2 Vegito > SS 3G Vegito (10x)> SS 2G Vegito > SS Vegito (50x)> Base Vegito > SS3 Goku > SS2 Goku > SS 3G Goku (10x)> SS 2G Goku > SS Goku (50x)> Base Goku

Bare minimum that would be a 500 times 500 multiplier for SSG. Which would be 250000x.

 

[omegabronic]

I personally think that a fusion's base form is going to be always stronger than the fusee's strongest form. This is shown everytime a fusion appears in the show.

Base Gogeta > SSB Goku
Base Kefla > SS Berserk Kale
Base Gotenks > SS Trunks

It is also stated in the Daizenshuu that Vegito surpasses Super Saiyan 3 Goku. Goku didn't even consider using it against Beerus, but he thinks he stood a chance with SSG.

SSG Goku > SS3 Vegito > SS2 Vegito > SS 3G Vegito (10x)> SS 2G Vegito > SS Vegito (50x)> Base Vegito > SS3 Goku > SS2 Goku > SS 3G Goku (10x)> SS 2G Goku > SS Goku (50x)> Base Goku

Bare minimum that would be a 500 times 500 multiplier for SSG. Which would be 250000x.

We need the scan for the daizenshu if we are going to use it

 

[TheGodOfICE777]

We kind of need the scan here if we will use this logic

Yeah no problem and I marked it for you too

“Being a combination of two Saiyans, his appearance hasn’t changed all that much, and feels like a combination of Goku’s face and Vegeta’s hairstyle. He has both Vegeta’s coolheaded battle strategies and Goku’s pure fighting sense, and there can be no doubt that his strength measures even greater than that of Super Saiyan 3.”

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

Yeah no problem and I marked it for you too

“Being a combination of two Saiyans, his appearance hasn’t changed all that much, and feels like a combination of Goku’s face and Vegeta’s hairstyle. He has both Vegeta’s coolheaded battle strategies and Goku’s pure fighting sense, and there can be no doubt that his strength measures even greater than that of Super Saiyan 3.”

GoatofICE

 

[omegabronic]

Yeah no problem and I marked it for you too

“Being a combination of two Saiyans, his appearance hasn’t changed all that much, and feels like a combination of Goku’s face and Vegeta’s hairstyle. He has both Vegeta’s coolheaded battle strategies and Goku’s pure fighting sense, and there can be no doubt that his strength measures even greater than that of Super Saiyan 3.”

How do we know that this is talking about base vegetto when ssj1 vegeto was the one who displayed any power in the manga?

 

[TheGodOfICE777]

How do we know that this is talking about base vegetto when ssj1 vegeto was the one who displayed any power in the manga?

Because that’s what the statement says and then after it says that it tells us how he can even turn into SSJ

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

Kale was not on par with SSJG Goku, even SSJ3 goku could block their attacks with his aura alone, so her base fusion being superior to Goku is quite literally impossible.

Also I'm responding to this now because its ******* pissing me off

Super Saiyan 3 Goku only repelled Super Saiyan Kale's attacks, NOT True Legendary Super Saiyan Kale

 

[omegabronic]

Because that’s what the statement says and then after it says that it tells us how he can even turn into SSJ

The statement about power never talks about this, the next phrase tells another one of his abilities, the one to transform into ssj1, but the statement scaling him above ssj3 goku never talks about which form he scalea above goku

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

The statement about power never talks about this, the next phrase tells another one of his abilities, the one to transform into ssj1, but the statement scaling him above ssj3 goku never talks about which form he scalea above goku

Well, let's see...

1. The image shows him in his base form
2. His power measuring above Super Saiyan 3 Goku and his ability to use Super Saiyan are mentioned separately
3. This is consistent with base fusions being much stronger than their fusees' maximum

Way more likely that they're talking about Vegito's base form

 

[TheGodOfICE777]

The statement about power never talks about this, the next phrase tells another one of his abilities, the one to transform into ssj1, but the statement scaling him above ssj3 goku never talks about which form he scalea above goku

It literally talks about his initial state in his base and then mentions that he can use ssj what are u even arguing?

Don’t make this crt longer than it has to be

 

[TimmyTurnero]

Also I'm responding to this now because its ******* pissing me off

Super Saiyan 3 Goku only repelled Super Saiyan Kale's attacks, NOT True Legendary Super Saiyan Kale

What difference does it make? He went on to fight on par with them in ssj alone and then sorta overpower them with ssj2.
Anyways this doesn’t matter, I’ve changed my stance.

 

[omegabronic]

Well, let's see...

1. The image shows him in his base form

And the guide is listing what we saw him do in the manga, in which he only ever showed any power in ssj1, plus the image is not on the same section as the phrase

2. His power measuring above Super Saiyan 3 Goku and his ability to use Super Saiyan are mentioned separately

And are independent of one another, one doesn't prove anything for the other

3. This is consistent with base fusions being much stronger than their fusees' maximum

Could you give examples of potara fusions like that?

It literally talks about his initial state in his base and then mentions that he can use ssj what are u even arguing?

Don’t make this crt longer than it has to be

Two separated phrases who are separated by a "." Showing that the information of one is over and that the one of the other begins, both don't prove anything for one another since they are different sections of the same text giving different information of the same subject

 

[TheGodOfICE777]

And the guide is listing what we saw him do in the manga, in which he only ever showed any power in ssj1, plus the image is not on the same section as the phrase


And are independent of one another, one doesn't prove anything for the other


Could you give examples of potara fusions like that?


Two separated phrases who are separated by a "." Showing that the information of one is over and that the one of the other begins, both don't prove anything for one another since they are different sections of the same text giving different information of the same subject

What? A period just means it’s the end of the sentence and the next sentence tells us that he can use SSJ from his normal state have you never heard of punctuation before?

 

[AguilaR202]

Also I'm responding to this now because its ******* pissing me off

Super Saiyan 3 Goku only repelled Super Saiyan Kale's attacks, NOT True Legendary Super Saiyan Kale

She wasn’t on par with SSG Goku though, even as a SS2, Goku was able to break free from Controlled berserk Kales grapples, endured direct hits from her and was able to quickly regain his composure, and Kale opted to dodge most of his ki blast attacks instead of just walking through them without taking any damage.

We know what happens when a SS2 tier character faces a SS3 tier one (ie: SS2 Vegeta getting curbed effortlessly by every Buu)

Nothing of what Kale showed in that battle put any of her forms close to SSG level.

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

She wasn’t on par with SSG Goku though, even as a SS2, Goku was able to break free from Controlled berserk Kales grapples, endured direct hits from her and was able to quickly regain his composure, and Kale opted to dodge most of his ki blast attacks instead of just walking through them without taking any damage.

I love derailing from the main point of a message!

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

And the guide is listing what we saw him do in the manga, in which he only ever showed any power in ssj1, plus the image is not on the same section as the phrase


And are independent of one another, one doesn't prove anything for the other


Two separated phrases who are separated by a "." Showing that the information of one is over and that the one of the other begins, both don't prove anything for one another since they are different sections of the same text giving different information of the same subject

Not dignifying this stonewall

 

[JirensMom]

Kefla overpowered God Goku in base proving she is far superior to Kale and Caulifla combined in base alone.

Gogeta is able to contend with Broly for a bit in base alone when previously Blue Goku and Vegeta couldn’t even last a moment with SSJ Broly.

Also Fusion is accepted as being SSB level or higher in base alone on this wiki already.(The speed multiplier blog) and Potara is equal to it

It quite consistent that Fusions base forms are above the fuses maximum power. (Kaioken and Evolution don’t exist in Toriyama’s script)

 

[AwkguyDB]

let me just jump in here to address some things that I clearly mentioned in the thread.

1. I am not arguing that SSJG surpasses Vegito in a general sense. What I am saying is Goku favored the power of BoG SSJG over a PRE RITUAL Vegito. This is about SSJG Being SSJ3 x SSJ3 not SSJG > Potara multiplier as that isn’t even a set multiplier.

2. By Wiki standards and Daizenshuu I linked Base Fusions are always stronger than the max power of the fusees at the time. I was even gracious enough to link two entries confirming that.

3. Kale and Caulifa were gradually growing in power against Goku. A tired Base Goku was stronger than SSJ2 Caulifa only for her to push him to SSJ2 literally in the span of 2 mins and both the girls pushed Goku into SSJ3 and eventually God. Why this is being discussed is just completely unimportant and Kale was deflecting SSJG Goku’s attacks.

Please also ignore Omen as I was unaware of the Super Scaling (which we need s blog for)

 

[AguilaR202]

I love derailing from the main point of a message!

It’s ultimately related to the topic at hand.

You cannot establish a static SSG multiplier off potara because its shown to perform inconsistently against it.

BoG Goku assumed a fusion between an SS2 and SS3 wouldn’t be enough to measure up to a held back Beerus which SSG did.

ToP Goku struggled in SSG against a potara base fusion of two characters who are relative in power to his current SS2.

Just because the power levels are higher in the ToP it doesn’t change the fact that the power ratios between forms are the same.