Super Mario Galaxy Stats

[Antvasima]

@DRB Well, it is your call whether or not you think that we should remove them from Mario's profile.

 

[Cropfist]

Wait, if Dark Bowser was going to destroy the Mushroom Kingdom he should be country level?

 

[Cropfist]

There's no counter-argument to the fact that the SMG feat is an outlier, though. Bowser had no galaxy level feats in the first SMG to support beating Bowser in SMG 2.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Bowser survived some serious stuff in SMG1 also. That's where his large star dura comes from. There's also that universal black hole that happens. Not to mention that he has no counter-feats to this, considering unlike Kirby and Sonic, as he has not exerted himself in most of his games. Other than the rpg series, SMG are the only games with story.

 

[Cropfist]

Large star and a universal black hole that doesn't scale to anyone's stats don't support galaxy level. And there are counter-feats, he has trouble with base Bowser. It makes little sense for him to be as strong as amped Bowser.

 

[Ryukama]

If he didn't have a Grand Star or Power Stars against Bowser, then I'm fine with it being considered an outlier for Mario and Luigi if that is what's agreed upon.

Bowser's stats should stay the same however, since he was amplified by said power ups at the time.

 

[Antvasima]

I also think that Bowser's statistics should stay the same.

 

[Ryukama]

Another possible solution I am alright with, is since Mario is incredibly inconsistent as DRB pointed out and is confirmed to have no canon/continuity, perhaps maybe we make a key for Mario's more notable levels of power between different games?

 

[Antvasima]

Perhaps. What do you think DRB?

 

[Cropfist]

Ryu, I think the first option of disregarding it as an outlier is better. We would have a ton of unnecessary keys with the second option.

 

[Dino_Ranger_Black]

@Cropfist It's not really an outlier considering Bowser in base even survived the destruction of the universe in the first game and he fought plenty of enemies above Small City Level. I prefer to leave the page the way it is. If we really have to remove SMG stats from Mario's page, I'm ok with that as well but we have to revise the character with a more appropriate rating with none of his stats seperated by a particular game.

 

[Cropfist]

Surviving universal destruction in base sounds like a bigger outlier. I can agree with ditching his small city stats and putting him at island-country.

 

[Dino_Ranger_Black]

@Ryu That sounds like a good idea but considering the games feats range from Planet level to Multi-Universal level, there will be alot of content to add into the point that the page will be a mess and we will be back to square one considering the reason we made a Paper Mario page to begin with.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay.

 

[Ryukama]

@DRB I was thinking of at most 3-4 keys. But I think you're right that even that might get a bit out of hand. If separate keys are out of the question, then I guess I am just fine with Galaxy stats for Mario and Luigi being an outlier (though Bowser keeps them)

I also agree that Small City might be too low for regular stats.

 

[Antvasima]

Alright, so do you two agree with each other that the SMG statistics should be removed from the Mario and Luigi profiles?

 

[Dino_Ranger_Black]

@Ryu and Ant I wish to revise the characters first. Let's leave the page for now. I'll figure out a way to make a compromise for it. Just let me look for the even the smallest detail that may help.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay.

 

[Cropfist]

@DRB I was thinking of at most 3-4 keys. But I think you're right that even that might get a bit out of hand. If separate keys are out of the question, then I guess I am just fine with Galaxy stats for Mario and Luigi being an outlier (though Bowser keeps them)
I also agree that Small City might be too low for regular stats.

I agree with this proposition.

 

[Dark649]

I agree as well.

 

[Dino_Ranger_Black]

Well, base on what I pointed out earlier, Mario did fight enough enemies around Planet to Star System level. Even Bowser himself, who has a Large Star durability. How about we remove the SMG stats and give him this rating. Varies, Ranges from Small City level to Star System level with a simple possibly higher for the characters he fought beyond that. I wish to keep the Small City level rating since their are other characters scaled off him. I have a hard to believe certian characters like Bowser Jr being comparable to his higher end feats via powerscaling.

 

[Kevyn_S._de_Andrade]

A large number of keys is really a problem? For I see that Bowser is also with several key...

 

[Dino_Ranger_Black]

@Kevyn Bowser's a different case since he was amped up by artifacts and very few of them stand out. Mario, on the other hand, faced all of them on several different ocassions with other antagonists that widely varies in power. Count in the fact certian other characters are scaled from him and it will make not just his page but almost every other page convoluted.

 

[Cropfist]

I don't know about large star, that also sounds outlier-ish for Bowser considering he's regularly hurt by weaker things. I could agree with "varies from small city to planet level" though.

 

[Dino_Ranger_Black]

@Crop It's not really an outlier considering the amount of times he survived even worse. Plus, just because a character have been hurt by something weaker, doesn't mean they can't take more than that. It's like saying Kirby doesn't have Solar System level durability because he can be hurt by Waddle Dee. Mario takes hit from Goombas all the time, doesn't stop him from surviving Kamek blasting him to the other side of the universe in SMG.

 

[Kevyn_S._de_Andrade]

Oh, I understand... Okay, then.

 

[Cropfist]

Him surviving worse doesn't support lower feats. Disproving an outlier is supossed to work the other way around. Isn't Waddle Dee scaled to Kirby as he's consistently on his level? If not I thought we treated it as a low-end.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Didn't we have a huge push for Super Sonic to 4-A dispite him giving more struggle for his low ends?

 

[Cropfist]

There's actually a point I forgot to bring up regarding that "low-end".

 

[Dino_Ranger_Black]

@Crop Yes, it does.....especilly when it happened plenty of times to warrant it. And that's Bandana Waddle Dee. Waddle Dee species have always been potrayed as weak enemies way below Kirby.

 

[Cropfist]

Cal knows more about Waddle Dee scaling than I do, but the supernova is the only large star feat?

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Waddle Dee is only building level. The only ones that are 4-A are Bamdanna Waddle Dee and the one from Kirby 64

 

[Dino_Ranger_Black]

@Crop Not sure wether you mean feats specifically around Star level feat or anything beyond that but if it's the lastter then yes since he did survived the aforementioned universe's end, defeated Dark Bowser who should share the same durability, and fought Culex as well. Not to mention surviving the black holes. Black Holes are unquantifiable for durability but considering most of them he tanked around Star System or higher, it's pretty clear that his Large Star durability is no mere outlier.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Here's what I think. Get rid of the tabber, and put possibly for the 3-C for Mario and Luigi. MAYBE Yoshi, as he played a huge part in that game.

 

[Dino_Ranger_Black]

@Cal But considering the concern for the 3-C rating is the reason this thread was ade, wouldn't it make it and the suggestion abit irrelevant?

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

I just think that we call outlier way too often, esp as I said before, we just gave Sonic a huge buff when he struggles more than Mario, and two, there's a SMG3 coming real soon.

 

[Dino_Ranger_Black]

@Cal Well, keep in mind outliers are not just limited to how often a character can pull it off but how believable it is. Although Mario fought several enemies and amped Bowser way beyond his usual rating, I can understand why people may doubt it. How about this: Mario will have a rating of Small City to Large Star level, the latter due to regularly facing base Bowser who can survive around that level, with a possibility of being 4-A or higher due to fighting enemies or amped up Bowsers around this level until further noticed.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

I would be okay with that. Though I'm pretty sure it is 3-C and not 4-A.

 

[Dino_Ranger_Black]

Actually, the 4-A came from ShinyRoboBowser and Bowser with the Power Stars in SM64. I made a post earlier about the enemies Mario faced in this thread. Ant, Crop, and Ryu, are you ok with what I suggested?

 

[Cropfist]

Cal, Super Sonic rarely struggles and a new game coming out doesn't support anything until we have actual feats from it.

Dino, two universal durability feats that are infinitely apart from each other and unquantifiable black holes don't justify large star. I suppose the mentioned feats warrant a "likely far higher" for Bowser's durability though.