Sukuna range upgrade

[Tuxidoe_Redo]

His world slash should be upgraded to universal as it target the world, existence itself which not even infinity can protect Satoru. Stated multiple times. Even when Sukuna performs his world slash against Gojo, we see white dots (stars) at the background getting sliced which shows it at least can reach interstellar ranges

 

[Damage3245]

There's no confirmation that those are literally stars yet, so I disagree with this for now. Perhaps the anime adaptation will shed some light on it.

 

[CastoriceTheFifth]

Damage FRA

 

[Tuxidoe_Redo]

There's no confirmation that those are literally stars yet, so I disagree with this for now. Perhaps the anime adaptation will shed some light on it.

Then what about the multiple statements about the slash able to bisect the world itself?

 

[Vzearr]

Yeah disagree. FRA I suppose.

 

[Tuxidoe_Redo]

It even directly says existence itself is targeted, not sure why ignoring those

 

[MrTayman616]

Then what about the multiple statements about the slash able to bisect the world itself?

"Bisect the world" means space itself rather than the planet, or you'd argue he cut the entire world in half? He attacked below many times with it as well. There is no reason to believe the distance reached that far.

It even directly says existence itself is targeted, not sure why ignoring those

Yes, basically spatial cut.

 

[Gamecooob]

dawg it just cuts space

its a hax ability with no confirmable AP

 

[Chariot190]

Tbh that kind of does look like space and given the context of the yap, I'd actually be fine with Uni Range.
Like it's almost 100% what it's trying to convey but waiting for the anime I wouldn't mind even if it's kind of obvious.

 

[Tuxidoe_Redo]

Yeah so? Its still range. I never argued upgrading Sukuna's AP, just the range. Idk if anyone here reads the statements I send and my thread title

 

[Gamecooob]

ah **** it said range goddamnit I can't read.

Still... eh. Targeting "existance" doesnt mean u got inf range, why would targeting space allow you to hit someone, say, a galactic distance away?

 

[Tuxidoe_Redo]

ah **** it said range goddamnit I can't read.

Still... eh. Targeting "existance" doesnt mean u got inf range, why would targeting space allow you to hit someone, say, a galactic distance away?

Cause we saw white dots in the background getting sliced which shows it at least can travel interstellar distances

 

[Gamecooob]

I think thats just an artistic representation of "existance" or "space" itself.

Like, the author was just tryna convey that "yea this can cut thru anything cuz' it targets space", not "yeah this can reach interstellar distances"

 

[Chariot190]

ah **** it said range goddamnit I can't read.

Still... eh. Targeting "existance" doesnt mean u got inf range, why would targeting space allow you to hit someone, say, a galactic distance away?

By saying the technique can target all of existence and the world and then show various upper limits culminating with a space shot.

It isn't AP obviously, and it's isn't even AOE, the slash itself is thin. It's just he can target whatever exists in space/the world, and cut it. Not even everything between him and the target either. From the looks of it, it's just a auto-spawn on cut attack.

Obviously would need to be aware of the target to do so, but if say Gojo was standing on Mars, and he KNEW where he was, the wording used and accompanying art would in fact implicate he could still cut him.

Unless those translations suck, I'd be fine with Uni range, like the words he says do in fact entail and mean that.

I think thats just an artistic representation of "existance" or "space" itself.

Like, the author was just tryna convey that "yea this can cut thru anything cuz' it targets space", not "yeah this can reach interstellar distances"

It actively says on the same page
"It was expanding the technique’s target.
Its intended target wasn’t just you, Gojo Satoru, but space, the entire world, existence itself...
It targeted everything before it unleashed those slashes."

the use of "was" is past tense, meaning he did that, that being expanding the technique, and then it elaborates what that entailed, that being the entire world was targeted, and then once it selected a target, that being Gojo, it did the attack. But it basically selected him out of the entire world.

I wouldn't mind waiting for the anime but I'm like 95% sure he has huge range on what is just an auto spawn attack.

 

[Nami_Kami]

Agreed. It's very clear-cut

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Agreed. It's very clear-cut

You're not funny.

 

[Anonymous_Learner]

Waiting for the anime FRA

 

[Gamecooob]

t actively says on the same page
"It was expanding the technique’s target.
Its intended target wasn’t just you, Gojo Satoru, but space, the entire world, existence itself...
It targeted everything before it unleashed those slashes."

the use of "was" is past tense, meaning he did that, that being expanding the technique, and then it elaborates what that entailed, that being the entire world was targeted, and then once it selected a target, that being Gojo, it did the attack. But it basically selected him out of the entire world.

I wouldn't mind waiting for the anime but I'm like 95% sure he has huge range on what is just an auto spawn attack.

Meh. I just see expanding the technique's target to "existence itself" as being just categorical. As in, he's not expanding his "range" physically to Universal, he's just targeting "existence" as a class, aka Space.

Also, it wouldn't make sense for it to be an "auto-spawn" attack when we saw it cut a building after it cut Gojo's hand. Maki dodged it. It couldn't kill Higuruma, and did a buncha collateral instead.

 

[PedjaTarzan]

ngl id advocate for possibly for now given chariots explanation

 

[Chariot190]

Meh. I just see expanding the technique's target to "existence itself" as being just categorical. As in, he's not expanding his "range" physically to Universal, he's just targeting "existence" as a class, aka Space.

That means literally the same exact thing.
And no, because he says "entire world" as prefix, to "existence itself". It's not localized and everything stated and shown makes it blatantly not the case.

Also, it wouldn't make sense for it to be an "auto-spawn" attack when we saw it cut a building after it cut Gojo's hand. Maki dodged it. It couldn't kill Higuruma, and did a buncha collateral instead.

It said "before" he sent it flying. The actual target process still has extreme range.

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

It's in fact Infinite range since he can cut Gojo's Infinite

 

[Gamecooob]

That means literally the same exact thing.

na
u can have a projectile that cuts thru space without having uni range. though im starting to think we aint talm bout the projectile anymore?

And no, because he says "entire world" as prefix, to "existence itself". It's not localized and everything stated and shown makes it blatantly not the case.

k

It said "before" he sent it flying. The actual target process still has extreme range.

hollon, is your point just about like, the places it can select to target? not the projectile insta-hitting anybody?

 

[Chariot190]

na
u can have a projectile that cuts thru space without having uni range. though im starting to think we aint talm bout the projectile anymore?

But can you have a technique that expands its attack range through the entire world and all of existence and then picks a target from within that space and launches the attack without having uni range?

You can not, the start of the process encompasses the topic at hand.

hollon, is your point just about like, the places it can select to target? not the projectile insta-hitting anybody?

If he can target some dude across the universe, that's still uni range even if it takes eons to get there even in this interpretation of the technique.

What is said flatout on panel would encompasses uni range by our, or anyone's, standards. The only reason I'd even really wait for the anime, ngl, is just to make it a cool lil gif you can slap on the profile given a space shot is probably gonna look nice with some pretty blues and purples

Unless the translation is just bad, for all I know it could say something completely different or the wording is different enough to be vague or not be the case, but based on the scans presented

 

[Gamecooob]

But can you have a technique that expands its attack range through the entire world and all of existence and then picks a target from within that space and launches the attack without having uni range?

You can not, the start of the process encompasses the topic at hand.

If he can target some dude across the universe, that's still uni range even if it takes eons to get there even in this interpretation of the technique.

What is said flatout on panel would encompasses uni range by our, or anyone's, standards. The only reason I'd even really wait for the anime, ngl, is just to make it a cool lil gif you can slap on the profile given a space shot is probably gonna look nice with some pretty blues and purples

Unless the translation is just bad, for all I know it could say something completely different or the wording is different enough to be vague or not be the case, but based on the scans presented

ohh k i getcha

make ya points quartz-clear ya sillyass goober, cuz I dont have a problem with this

 

[Lilybitdun]

Big disagree with OP

 

[MrTayman616]

Uh, with that logic, the entire existence would include everything, not just one flat line forward.

Even if you say something like "everything in front of him" or where he directs it, it still doesn't work as the cut was directed to world itself as well, which we know it didn't get cut into half.

Not to mention, reaching that range at that timeframe would mean it's at least MFTL+ to possibly infinite speed.

Which doesn't make any sense as it is canon that it can be dodged, by both feats and statements.

 

[Chariot190]

Uh, with that logic, the entire existence would include everything, not just one flat line forward.

No it wouldn't because it's not attacking all of existence simultaneously, it just expands its whole range to encompass it, and then picks a target within it, then attacks that target, it's literally what is stated on panel how it works, there's an outlined process.

Even if you say something like "everything in front of him" or where he directs it, it still doesn't work as the cut was directed to world itself as well, which we know it didn't get cut into half.

Not an argument, he didn't actually attack the world, he attacked Gojo.
If, his target was the world, yeah maybe that would have happened, but that isn't what he did nor is that actually contradicted and the dialogue suggests otherwise.
And ya know the worst part is, it might've anyway? From the looks of it everything parallel with Gojo's bisection that is visible was cut too at the angle it was launched.

Not to mention, reaching that range at that timeframe would mean it's at least MFTL+ to possibly infinite speed.

In what timeframe?
Shit could take a billion years and it'd still have that range. Unless you mean bypassing infinity?

In which case maybe it is, maybe it isn't. I don't care, I only care about what's actually stated and shown, and what is stated and shown is very explicitly targeting range that covers the entire universe.

Which doesn't make any sense as it is canon that it can be dodged, by both feats and statements.

You can dodge a ki blast too and those have uni range.
You conflating range with area of effect and even speed for some reason. They're 3 different faces.
You could dodge a sniper bullet that hits across the universe too if you were fast enough and knew it was coming, but said bullet would still have uni range.

 

[MrTayman616]

No it wouldn't because it's not attacking all of existence simultaneously, it just expands its whole range to encompass it, and then picks a target within it, then attacks that target, it's literally what is stated on panel how it works, there's an outlined process.

What? no, it destroys everything within the range. Do you think Mahoraga didn't hit the buildings when he cut Gojo's arm? Or Sukuna didn't hit the surface when he used it against Kashimo?

It doesn't pick a specific target within that range.

Not an argument, he didn't actually attack the world, he attacked Gojo.
If, his target was the world, yeah maybe that would have happened, but that isn't what he did nor is that actually contradicted and the dialogue suggests otherwise.
And ya know the worst part is, it might've anyway? From the looks of it everything parallel with Gojo's bisection that is visible was cut too at the angle it was launched.

That's not the only time he used his slash. He literally hit the world while using it against Kashimo.

In what timeframe?
Shit could take a billion years and it'd still have that range. Unless you mean bypassing infinity?

In what timeframe? at most a minute, as Kashimo instantly went to the battlefield when Gojo died.

If you claim it went that far, you'd be claiming it has that type of speed. We know it is an attack that travels rather than instantly effecting the range.

You could dodge a sniper bullet that hits across the universe too if you were fast enough and knew it was coming, but said bullet would still have uni range.

Not when you know how fast it'd have to be to travel within that timeframe.

It's not something like "it will eventually reach that far" or "an attack that instantly covers the range". This is specificially an attack that requires time to move. If you claim that the slash that cut Gojo has reached interstellar distances or more, you'd be claiming it has MFTL+ or higher.

 

[Chariot190]

What? no, it destroys everything within the range. Do you think Mahoraga didn't hit the buildings when he cut Gojo's arm? Or Sukuna didn't hit the surface when he used it against Kashimo.

I said as much?
And also this actively sabotages your argument.

If, the attack, by your own admission actually is cutting everything from a Point A to B as it travels, why are we pretending it doesn't? Like ok so it does do that, now do we ever see the cut just stop and hit a wall or something and not keeping going?

It doesn't pick a specific target within that range.

It literally did because it said it does, but regardless, so?

That's not the only time he used his slash. He literally hit the world while using it against Kashimo.

And do we at any point see the end of the cut? No? Then why are you arguing it as if we did.

In what timeframe? at most a minute, as Kashimo instantly went to the battlefield when Gojo died.

You evidently misunderstood me. I don't care about the timeframe because the timeframe doesn't matter. It could take a billion years, that doesn't alter the range.

If you claim it went that far, you'd be claiming it has that type of speed. We know it is an attack that travels rather than instantly effecting the range.

No I wouldn't? Shit could still be flying off come Jujutsu Kayylmao, all that matters is that it can reach that distance, eventually, that'd be the maximum range of the attack.
You're conflating range with speed and acting like the speed effects the range of the attack, it doesn't. An explosion that takes 1 million years to expand past 5m, still has a max range of 5m.

Not when you know how fast it'd have to be to travel within that timeframe.

Nope even then still.

It's not something like "it will eventually reach that far" or "an attack that instantly covers the range". This is specificially an attack that requires time to move.

Yep sure, an attack that takes time to move, can still have Uni range?
Hell we have attacks with like a dozen meter AOE tops and abilities on wiki that are barely superhuman in speed and have High 3-A range despite that, because they can simply travel that distance an aren't restricted to a lower range.
You're mixing up speed, AOE, and travel time, with range. We don't care when or how an attack can reach a distance, all that matters is that it can.

If you claim that the slash that cut Gojo has reached interstellar distances or more, you'd be claiming it has MFTL+ or higher.

Why do you think I care about that? Honest question?
Gojo could be anywhere from immeasurable to peak human with wank. I do not care.
What we have here is a very explicit statement, explanation on how it works, accompanying visuals that actively support the claims.
And your argument is basically "it might be fast" if we accept that.
I don't care if it's mach 1 or mach 1000000000, you could call characters dodging it an outlier, you could do anything you want, except say the attack secretly doesn't do exactly what it's said and shown to do, you'd simply be wrong. This is like pretending Tusk Act 3 or something's very detailed ability doesn't do what it's said and shown to do because it's secretly implicative of infinite speed.

You argued it doesn't cut everything, yet now you're arguing it does and hit stuff behind the characters too, so that point is gone now.
You need to show me the attack actually being thrown out, and then just stopping at some arbitrary point for this to even be an argument, otherwise you're not arguing range, you're arguing speed.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

Theoretically. Sukuna's Technique Target encompasses space, but affecting all of space on a universal scale requires an equally vast amount of Cursed Energy; an Extension Technique can expand the range of a Technique, but only by applying Cursed Energy onto an expanded material area—for example, Nanami's Collapse. He can theoretically apply his Cursed Energy and Technique throughout all of space, but we cannot reasonably determine whether he possesses enough Cursed Energy to do so; unless the visualization of outer space is enough evidence on its own, I guess.

I'm neutral.

 

[Chariot190]

Theoretically. Sukuna's Technique Target encompasses space, but affecting all of space on a universal scale requires an equally vast amount of Cursed Energy; an Extension Technique can expand the range of a Technique, but only by applying Cursed Energy onto an expanded material area—for example, Nanami's Collapse. He can theoretically apply his Cursed Energy and Technique throughout all of space, but we cannot reasonably determine whether he possesses enough Cursed Energy to do so; unless the visualization of outer space is enough evidence on its own, I guess.

I'm neutral.

Sukuna uses past tense wording when he says what he did, it isn't "he maybe could in theory", it's "he did that to kill you".
Unless the translation is just wrong idk, does anybody got raws if we're about to argue linguistic semantics?

 

[MrTayman616]

If, the attack, by your own admission actually is cutting everything from a Point A to B as it travels, why are we pretending it doesn't? Like ok so it does do that, now do we ever see the cut just stop and hit a wall or something and not keeping going?

It would simply be range limit (like literally how everyone in the series has)

And do we at any point see the end of the cut? No? Then why are you arguing it as if we did.

What? He literally hit the surface, if you assume it's range is that much, the planet would be destroyed.

There is no such thing as "we didn't see it's end so it doesn't matter" in a case like this.

You evidently misunderstood me. I don't care about the timeframe because the timeframe doesn't matter. It could take a billion years, that doesn't alter the range.

It can take a billion year if you assume cursed techniques last forever and that Gege wanted to show billions year ahead cuz why not. (The planet is also long gone though considering where Sukuna directed some of the slashes)

You don't have to care about the timeframe, but it doesn't erase the inconsistency about it.

No I wouldn't? Shit could still be flying off come Jujutsu Kayylmao, all that matters is that it can reach that distance, eventually, that'd be the maximum range of the attack.
You're conflating range with speed and acting like the speed effects the range of the attack, it doesn't. An explosion that takes 1 million years to expand past 5m, still has a max range of 5m.

No one argues against "If it travaled 5 meter in ten years, it'd still have 5 meter range".

It simply isn't the case here.

don't care if it's mach 1 or mach 1000000000, you could call characters dodging it an outlier, you could do anything you want, except say the attack secretly doesn't do exactly what it's said and shown to do, you'd simply be wrong. This is like pretending Tusk Act 3 or something's very detailed ability doesn't do what it's said and shown to do because it's secretly implicative of infinite speed.

Something that's done in the series + a literal statement from author that Gojo could dodge it as well.

And that explanation isn't enough for interstellar or any higher range, even more so when you consider literally everything it did.

Sukuna's target is the space, the slash is still a slash. It moves while cutting the space. It isn't anything more than that.

Why do you think I care about that? Honest question?
Gojo could be anywhere from immeasurable to peak human with wank. I do not care.

I don't care if you care about it's speed nor i'm clamining something like "You just want to make the verse mftl+".

It's relevant to this case since it simply doesn't work.

You argued it doesn't cut everything, yet now you're arguing it does and hit stuff behind the characters too, so that point is gone now.
You need to show me the attack actually being thrown out, and then just stopping at some arbitrary point for this to even be an argument, otherwise you're not arguing range, you're arguing speed.

If you think that's what i argued, then you're not even reading it right.

 

[ShadowWhoWalks]

I won't mince words - things are thoroughly chopped down by the razor-sharp argument. What else is there to do?

Also, characters should get +MFTL Speed for dodging World Slash - if not outright Immeasurable Speed.

It is of note that Sukuna has such scalpel-percise control over his Cursed Energy that he can make World Slash disperse midway. This explains away the potential antifeat of the World Slash crater against Kashimo stopping.

 

[Gamecooob]

Also, characters should get +MFTL Speed for dodging World Slash - if not outright Immeasurable Speed.

this joke is well-disguised

but still, speed is not the focus of this crt

 

[Chariot190]

It would simply be range limit (like literally how everyone in the series has)

No? The statements and context explicitly denote otherwise.
What other characters have do not effects this, we're discussing this technique, not the 50 other powers.

What? He literally hit the surface, if you assume it's range is that much, the planet would be destroyed.

No? Man there's a huge difference between AOE and simply range. It having infinite range on a 2D vector doesn't mean it has infinite range on a 3D scale.

Point A to Point B isn't Point A to literally everywhere omnidirectionally.

He hit the surface? If it kept going into the ground then we don't have a problem. Actually thinking on it, that wouldn't even matter? Having range doesn't mean your attacks can't stop.

You could have a bullet with universal range, and it stops because a wall got in the way or something.

There is no such thing as "we didn't see it's end so it doesn't matter" in a case like this.

Yes there is? Burden of proof is on you here, you're claiming it has limited range and can't do what it's said, so show me. Your word doesn't take precedence over the source material.

It can take a billion year if you assume cursed techniques last forever and that Gege wanted to show billions year ahead cuz why not. (The planet is also long gone though considering where Sukuna directed some of the slashes)

Maybe he did, maybe he didn't, it doesn't change the fact that was literally shown so end of.
Also, again, your entire argument doesn't make sense. By this logic he didn't even hit Gojo either because Gojo's body still exists. No dude, he got hit, it's a cutting attack, it could have passed straight through the ground and popped out the otherside and kept going for a trillion miles.

In fact, given the scans, that's probably exactly what occurred.

You don't have to care about the timeframe, but it doesn't erase the inconsistency about it.

There is no inconsistency. The only inconsistency is "this might make it fast", not "this might make effect the range".
Whether it's fast or slow doesn't change the range of it.

No one argues against "If it travaled 5 meter in ten years, it'd still have 5 meter range".

Actually, that's exactly what we do. If it's the same attack in question.

A good example would be older DBZ profiles, Goku and Vegeta would have had range based on their death (at the time) being seen from earth a decade later as a supernova-like explosion.
That explosion might have took forever, but it did cover that distance in the end.
Or even current stuff like Dimentio's 2-B range, it takes time for it to even cover universes, but it expands and ultimately will encompass all that.
Hell even Kira's SHA has infinite range because it can just travel infinitely away from him.

It simply isn't the case here.

It's quite literally the case here, moreso than most even like the above.

Something that's done in the series + a literal statement from author that Gojo could dodge it as well.

Ok cool Gojo has a whatever speed you want to argue the slashes are feat then. Might be legt, might be an outlier, I couldn't care less.
This doesn't effect the range of them.

And that explanation isn't enough for interstellar or any higher range, even more so when you consider literally everything it did.

Yes it is. It's the most blatant explanation on this wiki beyond "it's universal in range".

Your whole argument is it might maybe possibly be a speed outlier, this isn't an argument against the explicit range it's stated to have and even shown to have to some degree.

And what it did? Going by your own augments it doesn't even have anti-feats because it's always shown to keep going and cutting stuff and we've never seen them just stop.

Sukuna's target is the space, the slash is still a slash. It moves while cutting the space. It isn't anything more than that.

Why ignore like half the words like all of, existence, encompass everything, and the words that actually matter here?

I don't care if you care about it's speed nor i'm clamining something like "You just want to make the verse mftl+".

Then stop arguing speed.

It should be Uni range because that's what it's stated to be, and the only argument you've presented is conflating completely different aspects of things like it might be fast or the actual AoE of the attack isn't universal too, to mean the range isn't, and failure to do so is actively going against our purpose to index things properly.

It's relevant to this case since it simply doesn't work.

Almost half your replies simply boil down to "no", or speed, or aoe.
None of which are relevant here.

Saying it doesn't work obviously isn't going to cut it lad, I need to see actual scans contradicting the range, your word against the manga's itself isn't going to hold up.

If you think that's what i argued, then you're not even reading it right.

I'm reading what you wrote, failure to type it out properly is on you, not me.

Show me the attack having a range cap.
Show me the attack failing to traverse a certain distance.
Show me the attack, actually ya know what, why the hell do we actively see it in space too? Is that just a made up panel? OP has a point, it's literally shown extending into space.

 

[Chariot190]

snip

It being an outlier for characters to dodge it doesn't change its range.
It hitting an object and stopping doesn't change its maximum range.

Dude could have a 2-B Point A to B distanced ranged microscopic attack that if it so much as hits a sheet of paper it stops, this wouldn't change the actual range of the attack, it's just be awful in function.

 

[Tuxidoe_Redo]

These dudes really tryna downplay various consistent statements of Sukuna's feat. Can speed factor be ignored here? We are just tryna approving the range, anyone who dodge the attack can be discussed in a separate thread to consider them as outliners...


Or upscale

 

[Chariot190]

It could be literally mach 1 or infinite speed.
If, hypothetically, let's say a JoJo Stand is stated to have a beam attack with infinite range, it can go from edge to edge of the universe.
But, if it hits a target, it stops, must be fired again.
It is only mach 5 in speed, it still has to travel.
And the attack is only a 3cm wide sphere.
None of those would change that we'd list the attack at uni range, that's still how far it can and would go.

It's like saying Freeza doesn't have 3-A range because if his death beam hits something it might explode and stop, the death beam itself is tiny, and the death beam still has to travel.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

Sukuna uses past tense wording when he says what he did, it isn't "he maybe could in theory", it's "he did that to kill you".
Unless the translation is just wrong idk, does anybody got raws if we're about to argue linguistic semantics?

Again, I'm not arguing Sukuna was lying when he said his Technique Target encompasses space. However, in order to extend his range across the entirety of universal space, he would have to be able to imbue the entirety of universal space with his Cursed Energy, and so far we have no solid proof he possesses such an amount; especially considering the one guy with a Heavenly Restriction granting boundless Cursed Energy only has enough to cover Japan.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Again, I'm not arguing Sukuna was lying when he said his Technique Target encompasses space. However, in order to extend his range across the entirety of universal space, he would have to be able to imbue the entirety of universal space with his Cursed Energy, and so far we have no solid proof he possesses such an amount; especially considering the one guy with a Heavenly Restriction granting boundless Cursed Energy only has enough to cover Japan.

I thought Sukuna was stated to have the highest amount of Cursed Energy in the verse?