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Ok I'm bloody lost now in all this slog. Before I join in, what's the buzz?
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Subaru fights for his place in the strongest thread (round 1)
- Thread starter SatellaTheWoE
- Start date
Fezzih_007
He/Him- 7,623
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Also, can you change the range? Because Kanen Rider Just have a massive advantage right now.
Social influence, basically Subaru gonna talk Kamen to stop fighting.
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Aruto already resist SI since several arcs ago where he was completely fined after being 'convinced' by the data of humanities evil to side against it.
Later on, Horobi, who can convinced normal Humagears with zero thoughts of rebelling against humanity to take up arms and start a rebellion to wipe out all mankind by speaking to them, naturally, Aruto wasn't convinced by his cause.
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Well, depends, if Suburu tells Aruto like, “we should both stop fighting” Aruto would agree to that.
But if Suburu is like “You should let me kill you,” I don’t see it working. During the finale, Aruto, while in a depressed and exhausted state, broke free from Ark’s influence. Ark legit is like, the conceptual embodiment of humanity’s malice and weaker versions of Ark were able to cause a robot uprising which influenced robots who don’t have free will.
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- Thread starter
- #45
The SI I am talking about is him making people who are on the verge of killing him or have killing intentions against him joining his side, he also hates killing
So SI is an actual wincon then right? Considering how Aruto works what I think will likely happen is that he would choose that outcome and they would agree to not fight
So SI is an actual wincon then right? Considering how Aruto works what I think will likely happen is that he would choose that outcome and they would agree to not fight
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Also, during that Ark's semi-corruption/transformation state he's still refrain from killing his allies, with one of them being the whole reasons why Ark even exist at all, by disabling their ability to transform and tell them to get out of his way. (Episode 43)
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Actually yeah, Aruto is like the goodie too shoes of KR. The reason why he broke free from Ark was cause Ark was trying to force him into killing.
If Suburu was like “Bro we should really stop fighting each other” I legit don’t see why Aruto would decline
If Suburu was like “Bro we should really stop fighting each other” I legit don’t see why Aruto would decline
Fezzih_007
He/Him- 7,623
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SI is gonna be hard to work because of SBA
But still, It could work, depending on kamen personallity.
Subaru SI Works better when he have information of the person, since he don't actually start a fight using SI.
But still, It could work, depending on kamen personallity.
Fezzih_007
He/Him- 7,623
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Well, If that's the case, It depends on how the fight start.
Due to SBA, they start hundreds of meters apart, so Subaru could end up shouting to Kamen for him to give up, or he don't even try due to being far away.
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Legit, even at the face of the man who killed his family, Aruto decided to let him live as he believed that killing would be a spit to the face of everything Aruto had done up to this point.
Although, I will say that this outcome is entirely dependent on if Suburu could convince both of them to stop fighting before he would be able to kill Aruto through his quantum Hax or if Aruto can incap him via freeze Hax
Although, I will say that this outcome is entirely dependent on if Suburu could convince both of them to stop fighting before he would be able to kill Aruto through his quantum Hax or if Aruto can incap him via freeze Hax
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Btw we have to remember that it's not just Subaru in this fight: Beako is here too.
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Well, Suburu SI works when he knows a person better right. It kinda just depends on what Suburu and Beako does, cause Aruto will likely would focus of just incap more than anything
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Ok here is something interesting, in Subaru's profile, there is this: "Sub-Relativistic combat speed with Beatrice". And since Beako is with him from the start, Aruto will be scaling down to the sub-relativistic combat speed instead.
Just pointing that out.
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- Thread starter
- #54
Beatrice is a weapon not his primary phsyical speed, so unfortunately that doesn't work
Well based on the discussion I think Subaru takes this via SI (btw he would probably just dodge/block the ice beam and if he doesn't Beatrice will)
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How will we treat Aruto’s speed amps from his forms? It boosts his speed to FTL+
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If so, then the profile should've clarified it as such tbh.
VortechsTG
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I have no idea how the discussion has gone on for so long when the most basic question hasn't even been asked: What does Aruto even do if Subaru sidesteps from this plane of existence and/or drops a black hole on him? (This whole matchup is really smurf)
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I mean, is it in character and does it bypass the quant teleport? Earlier, it was said that Suburu doesn’t like killing
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I won't lie, there's a reason why we do not touch Z1 riders anymore, not even with a 1km stick. We can keep debating all day or we can just drop this thread and have our sanities intact? What do you say?
VortechsTG
He/Him- 967
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He will absolutely kill depending on the conditions. It's true that he doesn't usually like to but he has tried to kill an opponent with a black hole before. Also, Beatrice has very few reservations with killing besides that Subaru usually wouldn't like it. If it's absolutely necessary she will.
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So do they start off with this and what would even cause them to do this? Also like, his Z2 is FTL+ so dodging it should’ve be a problem if it acts like a normal black hole.
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We're not dropping this, are we? Oh well...
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"up to High 6-C with Equipment"
is this standard equipment??
you cant restrict High 6-C if its standard equipment
is this standard equipment??
you cant restrict High 6-C if its standard equipment
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Yea it is. SInce the equipment area is missing, you have to look at the BoS for it.
EDIT: Also the additional transformations he has from his EoS key probably, someone can confirm me on this.
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- Thread starter
- #65
They are brought down by the same multiplier so relativistic+ to FTL+ is anywhere from a 10x to 100x amp but that doesn't really do much because it would be a 100x amp to human level speed
Subrel in comparison is millions of times faster
Most likely this fight is just a blitz for Subaru, he either kills him (I don't get what exactly the quantum dodge is but if it only starts after the attack has been prepped then there wouldn't really be a universe where he doesn't get hit due to the Millionx speed gap)
Or he SI's him
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Ok, let's get this out of the way first. Subrel is already stated as combat speed in Subaru's profile, not weapon speed. But if we are going to consider that as Satella has said for Subaru and Beako, Aruto's summons will likely also benefit from this as well since he can summon them before any transformation, and they have about tier 6 dura too. Not to mention he has a energy avatar for every progrise key he owns. Which would be a lot.
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His perception amp by it lonesome already amp his base average human baseline before anything else to Sub-Rel+ in EoS key, so there's no reason it should applied.
His speed amp also amp his movement speed to the point of blitzing FTL+ reaction with layers of precog that already trump speed blitz that trump said perception amp.
Subaru in another possibility could have try attack at a later, or earlier time. He could initiate a conversation, anything that wasn't an attack that could hit mean that Z2 would dodge it.
Also, High 6-A summons FTL+ speed ran them both down.
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Satella you can’t restrict the Kamen rider guy to just 9-B
You have to change the op thing
You have to change the op thing
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A better clip would be before that when Aruto simply dodge Ark's attack post death.
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One basic question (besides a few I'm thinking right now) is what Subaru usually starts with regardless of having Beako by his side. Along with the starting tactics with Beatrice.
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what's the weirdness around speed equal?
Subaru is (for all of the stuff relative to himself, at least):
base combat speed to base combat speed, Aruto is way faster, so his combat speed becomes Athletic Human (with abysmal travel speed since it's also reduced by the same multiplier) while Soob gets to keep his far higher reactions.
Subaru is (for all of the stuff relative to himself, at least):
and Aruto is:
base combat speed to base combat speed, Aruto is way faster, so his combat speed becomes Athletic Human (with abysmal travel speed since it's also reduced by the same multiplier) while Soob gets to keep his far higher reactions.
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- Thread starter
- #76
Combat,reaction and perception speed are all different.
We can equalize the combat speed (the faster one gets down to the slower one and the rest of their speed is brought down by the same multiplier)
Beatrice is like a weapon for Subaru, the speed diff is also brought down but since Subaru is the slower one Beatrice keeps her speed
Zabazab
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His go-to is of course to support Beatrice, but he'd first try to use his whip to distract or restrain, he's aware that he's not too helpful in a brawl.
Beatrice would normally just spam Minya (magic projectiles that freeze and shatter their victim's time), but given Subaru is here I imagine she'd hold off on killing unless she or him were about to die.
Her most common opening spells would be Shamak (which cuts off the target's senses) or El Shamak (which robs the target's thoughts and willpower), as well as magic that reduces the target's stats (speed, most notably). Defensively they have EMM which is a spacetime-warping invulnerability spell, which can only be used once, eats lots of mana, and prevents them from moving while its active.
Some abilities she can use at Subaru's request or as a later card though include black hole creation, dimensional BFR, sealing, and spatial warping, but she isn't likely to use them immediately without Subaru telling her to.
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essentially what satella said, yeah. base to base, subaru is the slower one here and the one who is being equalized to, so none of his speeds are changed. consider beatrice a sentient weapon here, so she remains Sub-Rel.
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This might also mean that by that logic, Aruto's summoned avatar constructs will also retain their speed, no? Aruto has at least one for every one of his progrise keys with differing speed ranging from his relativistic+ to FTL+ and all of them are at least tier 6 too.
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They get reduced by the same multiplier, so if they are the same speed as Aruto then they get reduced by the same factor, if they are 100x faster than him then they become 100x athletic human
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