Subaru fights for his place in the strongest thread (round 1)

[SatellaTheWoE]

Subaru
vs
Kamen rider zero one
SBA
Subaru has beako
both are tier 9B
speed is equalized

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

obligatory bump

 

[BERRIES555]

Oh god, a debated involving Zero One characters…..please don’t do this

 

[Sir_Ovens]

Not only is Aruto just martially better, but he can also sense that Subaru is resetting time because of his connection to Zea, who could determine through sheer calculation that there was an anomaly in the timeline and that time was altered even before her creation.

This is even assuming he would even kill Subaru in the first place. At best he would just knock Subaru out long enough for SBA to give him the win.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Balthasar Gelt turns all three of them into gold. At the same time. Conceptually. With 7 layers backing it.

 

[BERRIES555]

Yeah, I was about to mention what Ovens had said, how would Return By Death work here? Aruto has been proven to resist timeline alterations in the Reiwa: The First Generation movie. If Suburu dies and time is reset, Aruto would know and Zea would be able to make a counter strategy with its 4D precog


Also, are we giving Aruto his weapons. Cause the Freezing Bear ability would incase. Suburu in a block of ice.

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

Yeah, I was about to mention what Ovens had said, how would Return By Death work here? Aruto has been proven to resist timeline alterations in the Reiwa: The First Generation movie. If Suburu dies and time is reset, Aruto would know and Zea would be able to make a counter strategy with its 4D precog

Isn't that a smurf ability then? Why is he in the non smurf thread??
Anyways, so even the first key is able to sense that he can reset right? Well could he do anything about it or not, just having the knowledge alone doesn't really do much and if he finds out too much about rbd then Satella would come and destroy everything

 

[BERRIES555]

I was told it was 4D precog in a separate thread so I just went with it. We also didn’t know Aruto’s in one of those non Smurf threads btw, we barely use this guy cause his fights are a headache.

I do know that in Re:Zero, there are loopholes for Satella and her killing people who Suburu tells about his RBD. Like, that hotel guy (Idk his name) and Puck have suspicions that Suburu does have a time related ability but doesn’t know exactly what it is. It’s likely what’s gonna happen here, Aruto would wake up sometime around Suburu Saved Files thing but this time, he’ll be able to retain his memories of what happened before the reset.

Also, the way Zea works is that she was able to predict that the timeline was about to change. I don’t know if this is by definition 4D precog, like I said thsi was randomly said off handedly by someone in a separate thread.

 

[Nicetoderp]

Anyways, so even the first key is able to sense that he can reset right? Well could he do anything about it or not, just having the knowledge alone doesn't really do much and if he finds out too much about rbd then Satella would come and destroy everything

There are multiple case of characters who simply found out that he looped without suffering from Stella storming in.

Also, Aruto have more than enough willpower to goes through essentially several trillions time loops himself every instant that his precog trigger, so he just outwillpower Subaru.

 

[Nicetoderp]

Also, Aruto henshin into Z2, or any form for that matter and instantly blitz Subaru

 

[BERRIES555]

Forms are likely restricted in this case I believe

 

[DaReaperMan]

Forms are likely restricted in this case I believe

No actually.

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

I was told it was 4D precog in a separate thread so I just went with it. We also didn’t know Aruto’s in one of those non Smurf threads btw, we barely use this guy cause his fights are a headache.

I do know that in Re:Zero, there are loopholes for Satella and her killing people who Suburu tells about his RBD. Like, that hotel guy (Idk his name) and Puck have suspicions that Suburu does have a time related ability but doesn’t know exactly what it is.

Satella decides on a case by case basis iirc, Puck having knowledge of rbd is a theory and Roswaal only knows about the looping via the tome of wisdom

It’s likely what’s gonna happen here, Aruto would wake up sometime around Suburu Saved Files thing but this time, he’ll be able to retain his memories of what happened before the reset.

Also, the way Zea works is that she was able to predict that the timeline was about to change. I don’t know if this is by definition 4D precog, like I said thsi was randomly said off handedly by someone in a separate thread.

Does he have acausality type 1 because without it he won't be able to retain his memories.

You would need to explain that ability in more detail because I don't understand how it works, if it IS higher dimensional then KMZ2 needs to be removed from non smurf

There are multiple case of characters who simply found out that he looped without suffering from Stella storming in.

Only Roswaal afair, Omega knew about it due to existing in a seperate space-time where Satella had trouble getting to (so she ate the sanctuary instead as seen in ep 8 of season 2)
Aldebaran knows about it too but he also has the same ass ability and also retains the memories

Also, Aruto have more than enough willpower to goes through essentially several trillions time loops himself every instant that his precog trigger, so he just outwillpower Subaru.

I would need scans for the trillion loop thing but Subaru essentially only needs to win once and he has numerous way to win.
Also since speed is equalised and only the combat speed is equalised kamen rider is human level with human reaction speed while Subaru is human level with subrel perception and reaction speed

 

[Nicetoderp]

No actually.

As long as none of it is smurf, it is allowed.

So Subaru got constantly stomp by a High 6-A disguise as 9-B with quantum dodge.

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

No actually.

As long as none of it is smurf, it is allowed.

So Subaru got constantly stomp by a High 6-A disguise as 9-B with quantum dodge.

Higher AP is allowed in a match? Well either way he has EMM to block all of the attacks and he just needs to time it perfectly and then counter strike at the perfect moment which won't be hard with rbd
Also Beatrice would remain subrel too since she is his weapon and weapon speed is not reduced

 

[DaReaperMan]

Higher AP is allowed in a match? Well either way he has EMM to block all of the attacks and he just needs to time it perfectly and then counter strike at the perfect moment which won't be hard with rbd
Also Beatrice would remain subrel too since she is his weapon and weapon speed is not reduced

Yeah higher AP has always been fine in these lists, just for non-smurf it can't be like, tier 2 or 1.

 

[Nicetoderp]

I would need scans for the trillion loop thing but Subaru essentially only needs to win once and he has numerous way to win.

Episode 40 of Zero-One have a weaker A.I. perform its own version of precognition who calc one billion possibilities in an instant, the precog was so real the user didn't even realized that they're in their own precog.

Zero 2 scale to this on trillions instead.

Also since speed is equalised and only the combat speed is equalised kamen rider is human level with human reaction speed while Subaru is human level with subrel perception and reaction speed

Base Aruto already have Relatevistic+ reaction bruh, he also have his own perception amp which surpassed his natural reaction speed so that wouldn't work so he still got his transformation through. And going into his stronger form mean that his speed is now FTL+.

Well either way he has EMM to block all of the attacks and he just needs to time it perfectly and then counter strike at the perfect moment which won't be hard with rbd
Also Beatrice would remain subrel too since she is his weapon and weapon speed is not reduced

Mentioned above, and unless Bea can locked a 1 in a several trillions chance she land her attack into a trillions out of trillions chance, Z2 would quantum dodge all of her abilities.

 

[Nicetoderp]

Also, Aruto Learning/Accelerated Devleopment amp his speed

 

[BERRIES555]

Satella decides on a case by case basis iirc, Puck having knowledge of rbd is a theory and Roswaal only knows about the looping via the tome of wisdom

Does he have acausality type 1 because without it he won't be able to retain his memories.

You would need to explain that ability in more detail because I don't understand how it works, if it IS higher dimensional then KMZ2 needs to be removed from non smurf

Only Roswaal afair, Omega knew about it due to existing in a seperate space-time where Satella had trouble getting to (so she ate the sanctuary instead as seen in ep 8 of season 2)
Aldebaran knows about it too but he also has the same ass ability and also retains the memories

I would need scans for the trillion loop thing but Subaru essentially only needs to win once and he has numerous way to win.
Also since speed is equalised and only the combat speed is equalised kamen rider is human level with human reaction speed while Subaru is human level with subrel perception and reaction speed

How does the Tome of Wisdom work here? Cause it’ll just be that Aruto will can tell time is reset.

Okay so I’m just going off memory cause I mentally block anything related to Z1. In The First Generation, a Time Jacker, basically someone to high jacks timelines and messes them up, had manipulated Aruto’s era. This caused many changes to the timeline such as Aruto never becoming a KR, his father still being alive, and various Riders interacting with each other despite them not being near each other in the OG timeline. Throughout all of this, Aruto kept his memories of the previous timeline he lived in. It’s later revealed that Zea had predicted that the Time Jacker would actually rewrite the timeline before he had even entered it in the first place.

Also about the “trillions of time loops” things. Aruto’s precog basically has him living Ground Hogs day. He’ll continually go through simulations of his fighting and dying until he finds one simulation in which he lives. He can go through 2 quadrillion simulations in a single second

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

Before I respond to everything, I need to get smth clear.
Aren't what you are talking about stuff from his higher keys?
That would be different keys entirely and not the one we are using

 

[BERRIES555]

This is actually a problem we’re trying to remove in Rider pages. Basically, even as a civilian, Aruto would be able to transform into his stronger form.

The keys for Aruto separate him by arcs and how strong he is in those arcs. Civilian Aruto is an EoS Aruto who’ll have access to everything upto the end.

 

[Nicetoderp]

Before I respond to everything, I need to get smth clear.
Aren't what you are talking about stuff from his higher keys?
That would be different keys entirely and not the one we are using

Because Aruto can transform into any of those Key on demand, akin to Super Saiyan transformation.

Also, according to the speed equal rules, Subaru wouldnt even be faster, Aruto would have the same level of reaction speed and Subaru, but better because of his own perception amp.

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

Because Aruto can transform into any of those Key on demand, akin to Super Saiyan transformation.

Also, according to the speed equal rules, Subaru wouldnt even be faster, Aruto would have the same level of reaction speed and Subaru, but better because of his own perception amp.

Only the combat speed is equalised and the rest of the speeds are brought down by the same multiplier so, Aruto's combat speed becomes human and since his reaction speed is brought down by the same multiplier it would also become human level

Episode 40 of Zero-One have a weaker A.I. perform its own version of precognition who calc one billion possibilities in an instant, the precog was so real the user didn't even realized that they're in their own precog.

Zero 2 scale to this on trillions instead.

That would be problematic indeed but as I said Subaru has infinite tries and its been repeatedly shown that he always wins when he actually does want to, he won't stop before he reaches his goals. Honestly he probably has infinite willpower or smth
But he could also just use his SI and make Aruto give up fighting

Base Aruto already have Relatevistic+ reaction bruh, he also have his own perception amp which surpassed his natural reaction speed so that wouldn't work so he still got his transformation through. And going into his stronger form mean that his speed is now FTL+.

As I explained above, it would be an amp of around 10-100x but Subaru would still be like a million times faster

Mentioned above, and unless Bea can locked a 1 in a several trillions chance she land her attack into a trillions out of trillions chance, Z2 would quantum dodge all of her abilities.

Her nickname is Beako, anyways Beako here is also a million times faster so she just blitzes and gets her wincon before Aruto even starts to think

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

How does the Tome of Wisdom work here? Cause it’ll just be that Aruto will can tell time is reset.

Okay so I’m just going off memory cause I mentally block anything related to Z1. In The First Generation, a Time Jacker, basically someone to high jacks timelines and messes them up, had manipulated Aruto’s era. This caused many changes to the timeline such as Aruto never becoming a KR, his father still being alive, and various Riders interacting with each other despite them not being near each other in the OG timeline. Throughout all of this, Aruto kept his memories of the previous timeline he lived in. It’s later revealed that Zea had predicted that the Time Jacker would actually rewrite the timeline before he had even entered it in the first place.

Also about the “trillions of time loops” things. Aruto’s precog basically has him living Ground Hogs day. He’ll continually go through simulations of his fighting and dying until he finds one simulation in which he lives. He can go through 2 quadrillion simulations in a single second

You said it was trillions so how is it quadrillions now?
Anyways, Subaru and Beako can win via blitz

 

[BERRIES555]

Nah, so it’s 2 trillion per 0.001 seconds. Aruto also has a forcefield that blocked a 6-A beam, it’s activated by thinking and Aruto already has slowed perception.

How fast is Beako?

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

Nah, so it’s 2 trillion per 0.001 seconds. Aruto also has a forcefield that blocked a 6-A beam, it’s activated by thinking and Aruto already has slowed perception.

How fast is Beako?

Sub relativistic but it's a dura negating time hax + she has Shamak that cuts off the users mind from his senses, since mind=soul in ReZero Aruto would 100% be confused
And Subaru only needs to do this once to win

 

[Nicetoderp]

Only the combat speed is equalised and the rest of the speeds are brought down by the same multiplier so, Aruto's combat speed becomes human and since his reaction speed is brought down by the same multiplier it would also become human level

??? That directly contradict the first line of the rules, his reaction speed is also his combat speed. Hell, if you wanna go that route then Subaru is slower since Aruto only have average human speed so he's the one slowing down for Aruto.

Subaru has infinite tries and its been repeatedly shown that he always wins when he wants to
But he could also just use his SI

1. He need to have the willpower to goes through literal infinite tries. The only version of Subaru who have the willpower to goes through it is Greed IF Subaru, who's more like a meat puppet for Echidna rather than his own person, meanwhile Aruto went through trillions of possibilities with every tick of Z2 Prcog. I put my bet on Aruto.
2. Aruto already resist SI.

Sub relativistic but it's a dura negating time hax + she has Shamak that cuts off the users mind from his senses, since mind=soul in ReZero Aruto would 100% be confused
And Subaru only needs to do this once to win

Z2 quantum dodge through it. Unless she used it on every possibilities at the same instance across trillions of possibilities, he'll just dodge.

 

[BERRIES555]

His Mind is computer data but yeah.

…damn, yeah uh, Aruto doesn’t really have counters against someone moving at sub rel. Does Suburu start off with summoning Beako

Also I do want to point out that the way the quantum Hax works is that every possibility, out of the quadrillions Aruto predicts, has to have at least 1 in which he lives. The Quantum Leaper would then instinctively “teleport” Aruto to that possibility. Basically, to permanently kill Aruto, a character must always perform a killing blow through quadrillion upon quadrillion of possibilities.

 

[Fezzih_007]

Is Kamen Rider who normally kill people? Otherwise, this debate about Subaru loops is kinda pointless, since he could knock Subaru out.

But If his solutions is just killing him non stop, I don't see how Subaru gonna lose.

 

[Fezzih_007]

Does Suburu start off with summoning Beako

Subaru don't summon Beatrice, she already with him.

 

[Nicetoderp]

Is Kamen Rider who normally kill people? Otherwise, this debate about Subaru loops is kinda pointless, since he could knock Subaru out.

But If his solutions is just killing him non stop, I don't see how Subaru gonna lose.

Zero One isn't the kind to kill people. Except Rouge AI. That's an entirely different things.

 

[BERRIES555]

Is Kamen Rider who normally kill people? Otherwise, this debate about Subaru loops is kinda pointless, since he could knock Subaru out.

But If his solutions is just killing him non stop, I don't see how Subaru gonna lose.

Aruto’s Freezing Bear ability would incase Suburu in ice. He could also just BFR him by throwing him inside one of his Mecha

Subaru don't summon Beatrice, she already with him.

Gotcha

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

Aruto’s Freezing Bear ability would incase Suburu in ice. He could also just BFR him by throwing him inside one of his Mecha

Gotcha

Subaru could dodge and he just kills himself if he gets BFR'd

 

[Fezzih_007]

Zero One isn't the kind to kill people. Except Rouge AI. That's an entirely different things.

Ok, so he could just knock Subaru out then, without the need to kill him.

What he can do achive that? I seeing precognition on his profile, would help?

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

His Mind is computer data but yeah.

…damn, yeah uh, Aruto doesn’t really have counters against someone moving at sub rel. Does Suburu start off with summoning Beako

Also I do want to point out that the way the quantum Hax works is that every possibility, out of the quadrillions Aruto predicts, has to have at least 1 in which he lives. The Quantum Leaper would then instinctively “teleport” Aruto to that possibility. Basically, to permanently kill Aruto, a character must always perform a killing blow through quadrillion upon quadrillion of possibilities.

Subaru also has multiple other wincons like BFR, sleep manipulation etc
He doesn't need to necessarily kill
Also feats for resisting SI?

 

[BERRIES555]

Subaru could dodge and he just kills himself if he gets BFR'd

Suburu would actually be able to kill himself in the mech. Although dodging is kinda not something I see him doing. Mix of teleportation, phasing, precognition

 

[Nicetoderp]

Subaru could dodge and he just kills himself if he gets BFR'd

Dodge against Z1 precog is a good joke.

Subaru also has multiple other wincons like BFR, sleep manipulation etc

Z2 quantum dodge unless Subaru did everything metioned here and landed this exact moves on him in that instant across trillions of possibilities.

Stuffs

Hey, Oven. Does Speed equal nerf Aruto's speed like Stella said?

 

[BERRIES555]

Subaru also has multiple other wincons like BFR, sleep manipulation etc
He doesn't need to necessarily kill
Also feats for resisting SI?

The main problem with Suburu’s win con is that, how will it bypass quantum teleporting? He’ll need to find a way to put Aruto in a situation in which, throughout all the possibilities Aruto can think of, there will never be one in which he can win.

Also what’s SI?

 

[BERRIES555]

Hey, Oven. Does Speed equal nerf Aruto's speed like Stella said?

I’m pretty sure it does nerf Aruto’s speed to Suburu’s. But he’d still have his self perception manip. Ovens actually talked to Slash about this exact same time funnily enough

 

[Nicetoderp]

Also what’s SI?

Social Influencing, something Aruto already resist in the second Arc from the collective knowledge of humanity's evil.