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On the Acasuality page, its only up to whats been shown they've been unchanging to
With Blazblue's Passive Beyond Infinite Layers Hax, if the Type 5 doesnt protect them, they probably lose
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Strongest 5-D Characters on the Wiki
- Thread starter Robo432343
- Start date
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Another GoW hax downgrade thread
I feel like grandfather spider and omega have winning chances now
I feel like grandfather spider and omega have winning chances now
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Not sure if it covers CM Type 1, cuz it seems to be Type 1 because it’s type 5 aca
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why does them being type 1 conceptual beings mean their aca 5 doesn't cover cm 1???
thats counterintuitive
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Cause they are unchanging because they are Type 1 Concept beings
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Id rather wait for Pegasus to clarify if the Type 5 Acasuality does encompass Type 1 Concepts, and if I did, its either a Stomp or Stalemate incon which are both lameeeeeeeeehuh??? you should just make a match
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Contradictions are part of Steampunck lore like for example, nothing exists in Sharnoth, but everything also exists ie it's literal nothingness, just a dark realm, but it also has the shape of buildings....
Their unchanging nature and being type 1 concepts aren't really stated to be intertwined.
You can infer it maybe, it's stated that Sharnoth and thus M/Edison is unchanging, but at the same time Sharnoth is a realm that is beyond time, space and causality.
M being Sharnoth itself, and M being conceptual, you can say Sharnoth is conceptual.
Their unchanging nature and being type 1 concepts aren't really stated to be intertwined.
You can infer it maybe, it's stated that Sharnoth and thus M/Edison is unchanging, but at the same time Sharnoth is a realm that is beyond time, space and causality.
M being Sharnoth itself, and M being conceptual, you can say Sharnoth is conceptual.
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so I'm guessing causality in the verse doesnt encompasses Type 1
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The only type 1 concepts in verse are M and Edison, and Azathoth really, and maybe Sanido, so basically the God tiers.
There maybe an argument for Leo from Valusia, based on his complete independence from the world, but not clear if that has to do with any conceptual shenanigans or something else since Valusia is still untranslated, just like quite a few other portions of the verse, so we don't really know if any other type 1 concepts exist, for now we can say no.
Again not really clear how acausality vs cm is treated, but anyway I said pages ago, that imo M and Edsion are just very hard to affect, Blazeblue has stronger hax.
There maybe an argument for Leo from Valusia, based on his complete independence from the world, but not clear if that has to do with any conceptual shenanigans or something else since Valusia is still untranslated, just like quite a few other portions of the verse, so we don't really know if any other type 1 concepts exist, for now we can say no.
Again not really clear how acausality vs cm is treated, but anyway I said pages ago, that imo M and Edsion are just very hard to affect, Blazeblue has stronger hax.
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They can deal with Type 2 NEP. Though the only aspects they can't affect is 2 and 3
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And the NEP Aspect 2 for What a Beautiful series is only Type 2 Cm
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He’s still intractable by normal NEP 2, cuz his Type 3 NEP is just replacing the NEP 1 part with NEP 2, and also still no CM Type 1 NEP
Does wizard 101 have any layers
CodeCCLL
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By what standards do you say this? Sonic standards?
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Acausality (Type 5 - M is beyond time, space and causality[4]. He exists as that which is not within, the outside itself[10], he is a transcendent being of the outer universe[11] of Sharnoth, which is an eternally unchanging world[1]. M is unchanging, with time, and anything else humans value holding no meaning to him[1])
Conceptual Manipulation (Type 1 - Sharnoth, an infinite world[1] is the way it is[1] because M feels nothing. The infinite darkness of Sharnoth and M are the same thing. All areas of darkness are his domain[8]. his "Jet Black" being beyond time, space and causality[4])
His Type 1 is from being beyond Time, Space, and Causality
I mean, im pretty sure type 1 concepts are more abstract/fundemental, and a concept type 2 nep would lack something less abstract/fundemental
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it does not matter if the concept number is more fundamental if they lack the concept in the first place
using your logic anyone with CM 1 can interact with nep 2 aspect 2 even though they have no feats of interacting with something like that just because the concept type is different
if garfield had conceptual manip type 1, do you think he would be able to interact with nep 2 aspect 2 just because the person with nep 2 aspect 2 is a type 2 concept?
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They would not be lacking the more fundamental concept if they were an aspect 2 for CM2, also since it’s a type 2 Concept, could it still be interacted indirectly because it’s dependent on something in reality
This doesnt prove anything
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Billy cypher became 5-D boys, and Dante MAY also become 5-D
Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara
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Not on my watch he ain't.
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Correct, he is 10-D
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On an abstract/fundamental level, a Type 1 is above what it governs, while a Type 2 is on the same level as what it governs
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If thats the case, shouldnt a Type 2 Concept NEP still be affect still be affected by the alteration of reality, also the NEP page says "They are hence immune to regular manipulation of said concept(s). Which type of concept should be mentioned on the profile." which implies it depends what Type it is
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That wrong, Type 1 is just independent of reality, the only concept type that is superior to what it governs is Platonic-type concept, since according to platonic concept, the physical reality is just a shadow, and extension of the abstract concept itself. Our type 1 concept is just a broad definition for all concepts that is independent from what it govern, Jungian Archetype also a concept that independent from reality but not superior to it. People just arbitrary think that Type 1 is all platonic-type concept since current type 1 is the fusion of old type 1 which is called true platonic concept and old type 2 which is called false platonic concept bruhh
Also my sematic nitpicking: independent =/= superiority. I'm independent from the house i built, doesn't mean i'm superior to it, the house can still crush me if it fall on me
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Amusing to see my obscure Nyarlathotep's generating pages of discussion.
Like us WABS guys are just chilling, and this discussion is still ongoing.
Like us WABS guys are just chilling, and this discussion is still ongoing.
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CM1 is just a broad term for concept that independent of reality, something that we, vsbw users created and i will repeat again, independent =/= superiority. There is no most logical explanation here, cause i already gave actual example of why independent concept doesn't mean said concept superior to what it govern
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The CM Type 1 would not need to directly affect The Concept of Nothingness if the Concept is only type 2, and could instead affect what it's bounded to, if it's bounded to something nonexistent, then sure the Type 1 cant affect either without feats, but if it's bounded to something in reality, it can be affected
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What the hell you guys are arguing???
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I mean, depend, since the NEP guy lack concept aspect, CM can't interact with him, but some fiction characters have feat capable of applying concept into objects, person, etc....these kind of characters can definitely doing something to NEP guy who lack concept. So it is depending on available feats
Or you need to overwhelming the NEP guy with higher dimensionality power and the NEP guy lack feat of surviving after getting slapped by such a force
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I editted my comment, but anyway like i said, depend on what kind of feats the guy with CM1 have been showing, if he has feat applying concept to objects, persons, etc...... then he can force a concept on the NEP guy, make him now do not lacking a concept anymore, but if CM1 guy have no such feat then yeah he can't do anything
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those arent my own, thats just how concept type 2 works, it can be affected indirectly by what it’s bound to
lebron jamesi made this thread
ANSWER THIS QUESTION PLEASE
Character A has 8-D soul crush Character B has 5-D high godly regeneration Will Character A bypass the high godly regeneration? question2 basically character A has type 1 concept hax, has no feats of interacting with NEP 2 aspect 2 is fighting B who has nonexistent physiology type 2 aspect 2...vsbattles.com
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Was this scenario even taken into account, it's not directly manipulating the Nonexistent Concept here
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It’s not? Type 2 Concepts can be manipulated without directly interacting with them
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He mean that rather than directly interacting with concept, you can indirectly affect the concept by affect what the concept tied to, since Type 2 mean the concept itself is dependent on something, if you affect said thing, it will create a chain reaction that alter the concept
However in this case, CM1 guy try to affect the NEP guy that lack concept type 2, so it is pointless since there is no concept to interact with, and the concept is absence, it can't be tied to anything for CM1 guy to indirectly affect the concept via affect what the concept tied to. And even if we sematically nitpicking thing, type 2 concept of nothingness will be tied to the nothingness itself, since it describe what is nothingness, that go back to the start where you need to be able interact with the nothingness first in order to indirectly affect type 2 concept of nothingness
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Doesnt the concept still paradoxically exist, like what the NEP page says “Nonexistent Physiology refers to the ability to lack certain aspects of one's existence, to paradoxically 'exist,' yet lack certain identifiable traits of existence or exist outside of a particular scope of 'existence.'” and would still be tied to something
Yeah thats for nothingness but what about lacking something the concept of something not inherently nonexistent
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unless the guy is NEP Nature 3, otherwise it make no sense. The paradoxical part is just mean that normally nothingness mean, nothing exist, however still some how existing, it have almost nothing on aspect
the.................what?????, now you make no sense bruhh
Tbf, current NEP is a mess
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If it somehow still exist, and counts as a concept, shouldnt it still be tied to whatever it’s linked to, also also if it is a Type 3, is it possible?
Like the concept is tied to nothingness in this situation, what if its something else
mood
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if the concept still exist, then the character in question will never lack it in the first place, which mean his nonexistence aspect is wrong, unless he is NEP Nature Type 3, which allow for paradoxical existence even with the aspects
no, it is impossible, concept type 3 tied with what it describes, concept type 2 of circle describe the fundamental principle of circle, and also tied to said circle, concept type 2 of nothingness describe properties of nothingness and also tied to it, you can't have a concept type 2 that somehow tied to a completely different thing that it not describe and govern over, the only concept that is possible in such a way in our current system is concept type 3, as it is lesser realist concept, it is tied to what it describe and govern, at the same time it is a part of a larger reality
Anyway i'm gonna sleep, it is midnight in my country now
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Oh right, I remember reading a question here. The note on Acausality Type 5 about needing feats, that was because Acausality Type 5 was changed from something that ignored dimensionality to something that was limited by it. So it was about Tier 1, not about Concepts or anything.
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