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Street Fighter Big CRT Part 5: The Last I Promise

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I'm a bit busy but looking over the OP I agree with majority of the changes like the single powers and abilities additions. As for adding the + to those specific characters, if they are that close to the upper boarder than I don't have much of a problem with it. I'm not well versed enough in the series when it comes to scaling though the Ryu, Akuma, and Lifting Strength changes look fine. I'm neutral on the Corruption and High 7-A stuff.
 
Thank you both for the inputs, Ryu's third key seems to be the only controversial thing left to decide.

@Oleggator @Zencha9 @AkumaNoHissatsu I know you have already commented, but could you elaborate further on which option do you think would be more reasonable among the ones listed below?

If you need a more detailed summary of the arguments please let me know.

If I got it right, now Continuum actually agrees with option 3, but we'll see what they say.

SamanPatou said:
To summarize, accounting everything we have said, we have three options:

1) We leave Ryu's profile as he is now, 9-A Base form with Class 100 LS that scales to other 9-As

2) We merge Ryu's base and PoN into a single key, with his Class 100 not scaling anymore to other 9-As, including his previous self

3) We give Ryu's base High 7-A tier and higher via the PoN, with class 100 still not scaling because other 9-As didn't demonstrate to be able of fighting evenly with this Ryu.


Personally, I'm for option 2 because of my FRAs.
Click to expand...
 
As other characters haven't showed a feats to being close enough for Ryu's class 100, and considering there's a points of Ryu in future being stronger than in past I think second option would be pretty much option.
 
Oleggator said:
As other characters haven't showed a feats to being close enough for Ryu's class 100, and considering there's a points of Ryu in future being stronger than in past I think second option would be pretty much option.
Click to expand...
Just to be the most clear, what worries people the most is Ryu's base having become one with his Power of Nothingness, to the point that basically there wouldn't be a difference anymore between them, which is option two.

Do you also agree with that?

MaidRips said:
Hey, sorry I'm late. It looks fine to me.
Click to expand...

No problem and thanks.

Sorry if I ask again, but could you give your opinion on the thing here above?

Because the decision about Ryu's key would most likely fall in a vote count, as I believe everything related to it has been brought up and a clear-cut decision still has not be reached despite that.
 
If Ryu was able to accomplish it without any discernible transformation or upgrade, then I think the decision should be alright, especially for the reasons you said earlier in the thread.
 
MaidRips said:
If Ryu was able to accomplish it without any discernible transformation or upgrade, then I think the decision should be alright, especially for the reasons you said earlier in the thread.
Click to expand...
The sequence was kinda like this:

Torrent of Power Necalli stomps base Ryu, Dhalsim and is overall on the same level as Satsui Ryu -> Ryu trains, then keeps up with the same Necalli and wins, although he doesn't defeat him for good -> immediately after Ryu shows a white glow and onepunches Necalli -> Ryu fights Bison most likely using the PoN without any white glow and wins (the ki we see when he fires the Hadoken is cleary because of the attack itself) -> Ryu fights Akuma using the PoN without glowing -> Ryu fights Kage, once again most likely with the PoN and without any glow.

What makes people dubious, If I get it right, is that Ryu showed the glow only after the first fight with Necalli, which he shouldn't have a reason to do just in that occasion, possibly implying to it needing to be activated. Him having that kind of control over it makes people dubious because he just recently achieved it.

Personally I think his glowing was more to show it off to Necalli, like displaying how he now has that power, since he trained to control it, and I find it weird that he now has just a strong base plus the additional power.

I don't want to speak in others' behalf too much, so they are free to add things or correct me.



Anyway, Blackdarkness told me that they prefer option 3, which I think is also what Continuum voted.
 
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I added links to the previous post.

@Oleggator @Zencha9 @MaidRips I'd like to ask you to comment once again, as I replied to MaidRips with links to the scenes where Ryu uses the PoN, so you can either confirm again you opinion or change it. (also feel free to ask for further stuff if you want).

I do this to not make it like I'm manipulating votes, as I want to be the most transparent possible.
 
Ok, let's see.
SamanPatou said:
The sequence was kinda like this:

Torrent of Power Necalli stomps base Ryu, Dhalsim and is overall on the same level as Satsui Ryu -> Ryu trains, then keeps up with the same Necalli and wins, although he doesn't defeat him for good -> immediately after Ryu shows a white glow and onepunches Necalli -> Ryu fights Bison most likely using the PoN without any white glow and wins (the ki we see when he fires the Hadoken is cleary because of the attack itself) -> Ryu fights Akuma using the PoN without glowing -> Ryu fights Kage, once again most likely with the PoN and without any glow.

What makes people dubious, If I get it right, is that Ryu showed the glow only after the first fight with Necalli, which he shouldn't have a reason to do just in that occasion, possibly implying to it needing to be activated. Him having that kind of control over it makes people dubious because he just recently achieved it.

Personally I think his glowing was more to show it off to Necalli, like displaying how he now has that power, since he trained to control it, and I find it weird that he now has just a strong base plus the additional power.

I don't want to speak in others' behalf too much, so they are free to add things or correct me.



Anyway, Blackdarkness told me that they prefer option 3, which I think is also what Continuum voted.
Click to expand...
Damn, I wish to know why Ryu was losting so many times that moves are badass. First of all don't know how everyone will decide Ryu's feats but I'm still very sure about class 100 not scaling to base so it leaves option 2 or 3.

If you allow I would quote:
"2) We merge Ryu's base and PoN into a single key, with his Class 100 not scaling anymore to other 9-As, including his previous self

3) We give Ryu's base High 7-A tier and higher via the PoN, with class 100 still not scaling because other 9-As didn't demonstrate to be able of fighting evenly with this Ryu."

So there's few things to point out. As far as I understood PoN is more like some kind of "One for all" from MHA as strange as it sounds. The power which used differently and not always seen to be used but probably was used (light aura and "Push forward" looks familiar to "Plus Ultra")
Anyway back to the topic, probably option 3 looks fine, as the power have some sort of meaning. In other hand option 2 also seems well enough as later Ryu uses it without a showcase. Probably I'll still will leading towards option 3, because class 100 don't scales and because not showing PoN visually probably don't mean it doesn't makes him stronger. As we seen he one shotted and overpowered some characters by it while without it, was harder to win for him (Curse my tongue for this hill of text).

Short answer, could be wrong with my sense of justice but overall I will choose Princess Fionna.
 
Thanks.

If you need more explanation on the Power of Nothingness, that's basically a powerful ki force, born from a sense of humanity and inner peace, representing the exact opposition to the Satsui no Hado, the inner Ki and force that comes from the killing intent.

Ryu trained in achieving the PoN to not fall victim of the Satsui and end up becoming Evil Ryu (as unlike Akuma, Ryu can't control the Satsui and goes berserk).

Anyway, I'll start the count, currently we have three votes for option 3.
 
Can you summarise the arguments here please? In that case our staff may be able to help out.
 
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Basically we have to decide if it's better to consider SFV-3 Ryu as able to use the Power of Nothingness without having to activate it or not, i.e. keeping the difference between a base form and an "activated form". With that, it also comes along the Lifting Strength scaling to Ken, Nash and Sagat.

These are the options at hand:

SamanPatou said:
1) We leave Ryu's profile as he is now, 9-A Base form with Class 100 LS that scales to other 9-As

2) We merge Ryu's base and PoN into a single key, with his Class 100 not scaling anymore to other 9-As, including his previous self

3) We give Ryu's base High 7-A tier and higher via the PoN, with class 100 still not scaling because other 9-As didn't demonstrate to be able of fighting evenly with this Ryu.
Click to expand...

And this is the other summary about how the events went and why people are dubious.

SamanPatou said:
Torrent of Power Necalli stomps base Ryu, Dhalsim and is overall on the same level as Satsui Ryu -> Ryu trains, then keeps up with the same Necalli and wins, although he doesn't defeat him for good -> immediately after Ryu shows a white glow (the Power of Nothingness) and onepunches Necalli -> Ryu fights Bison most likely using the PoN without any white glow and wins (the ki we see when he fires the Hadoken is cleary because of the attack itself) -> Ryu fights Akuma using the PoN without glowing -> Ryu fights Kage, once again most likely with the PoN and without any glow.

What makes people dubious, If I get it right, is that Ryu showed the glow only after the first fight with Necalli, while he shouldn't have a reason to do just in that occasion, possibly implying to it needing to be activated. Him having that kind of control over it makes people dubious because he just recently achieved it.

Personally I think his glowing was more to show it off to Necalli, like displaying how he now has that power, since he trained to control it, and I find it weird that he now has just a strong base plus the additional power.
Click to expand...


Currently the vote count is:

Option one: 0
Option two: 1 (Me)
Option three: 6 (Continuum, Blackdarkness, Oleggator, MaidRips, Zencha9, DaReaperMan)
 
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It seems like none of the staff members that I called earlier are willing or able to help out here.

I suppose that we will have to make do with the input and votes from our regular members then.
 
I still consider their opinion valuable.

Option 3 seems to be the preferred, we can wait for opinions or move on, I think Gill and Urien's tier deserves its own round of direct opinions, tbh.
 
It seems most people are fine with downgrading Gill, although PuasLuis prefers to keep his rating as it is now.

Same for corruption, most seem to agree with removing it, but Blackdarkness thinks it should stay as "possibly limited" for all Satsui users.

Should I tag again more people to have direct opinions on it?
 
SamanPatou said:
Should I tag again more people to have direct opinions on it?
Click to expand...
You can send notifications to some more staff and/or knowledgeable members if you wish. It depends on if you think that we have sufficient consensus here yet.
 
@Oleggator @Continuum19 @Zencha9 @MaidRips @DaReaperMan I know you have already commented, and apologies for tagging you again, but I just want to know if you still agree with the following things, just to actually know where the consensus stands, as both proposals are mostly based on opinions and interpretations and are the last things somewhat controversial.


SamanPatou said:
Satsui no Hado and Corruption

This is written on some profiles, like Oni and Akuma, but not others, and we must decide if give it to all the Satsui no Hado users or remove it entirely.

The thing comes from Sagat's SFV story, where the Satsui no Hado tries to take him over. This was interpred by some people as Ryu spreading his Satsui into him when he delivered his Satsui-empowered Shoryuken back in SF1. The Satsui spreading itself is a bit shady, not only because there isn't an explanation to why Sagat has been tempted by the Satsui, but also because there's a gap of something like 10 years or so between SF1 and 5, and Sagat already went over his grudge towards Ryu in Alpha 3. Add that this thing hasn't happened again nor we have any other hint to fighters being able to spread the Satsui on others, despite them having injured many people who then survived, like Gouken, Gen and Bison (although he changed body).

Now we can either give this supposed corruption that takes years to manifest to every Satsui user (Akuma, Oni, Ryu, Evil Ryu and perhaps even Oro) or we remove it entirely.
Personally, I think it's best to remove it. After all, the Satsui is the surge of murderous intent, which can be used even by those who don't employ the Ansatsuken style (see Oro) and might perfectly attack everyone who give all of himself to the fight, just like Sagat.


Gill and Urien's High 7-A

On the 3.5 revision it was agreed to give Gill and Urien the High 7-A rating. However, it was asked me to make another revision about it. This because there really isn't anything to suggest they are comparable to the characters to who they currently scale, other than something like "They are strong characters so they must be at least comparable to the top tiers", which is a very weak reason to give someone a tier. Gill and Urien, as said in the other thread, don't have any relationship to any particularly strong character, them being High 7-A is literally based on nothing. Funnily enough, in the meantime Rose has been introduced in the games, and G now scales to her because the two seemingly fought on par. Gill also scales to G, as the two are also somewhat even, with Gill possibly being even stronger, and all of this makes Gill's "base 8-B tier" more solid.

In short, the proposal is to remove the High 7-A rating from them and leave the "8-B, likely Higher".
Click to expand...
 
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