Straw Hats Vs. Class 1-A Members Match 1: Love Cook Vs. Half and Half

[FluffyCreatureZ]

I didn't know that flash freeze and heaven piecring ice wall weren't the same moves, But I don't see sanji dodging it so todoroki could get him stuck and if it doesn't work he would go for the stronger flash freeze.

 

[RazumaHiroki]

I didn't know that flash freeze and heaven piecring ice wall weren't the same moves, But I don't see sanji dodging it so todoroki could get him stuck and if it doesn't work he would go for the stronger flash freeze.

How can you not see Sanji dodging this when he literally jumps high enough to kick a giant with an Anti-manner-kick course? Not to mention he avoided Oars's pistole and even deflected it! Oars is bigger than anything Todoroki can throw at him and as well as faster.
Oda himself confirmed that Sanji is the most agile fighter amongst the monster trio.

Also Todoroki's heaven piercing ice wall has been dodged by various characters, including characters less agile than Sanji. Or do you wanna argue that Stain is more agile than Sanji? I stand by points I even detailed explained why.

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

How can you not see Sanji dodging this when he literally jumps high enough to kick a giant with an Anti-manner-kick course? Not to mention he avoided Oars's pistole and even deflected it! Oars is bigger than anything Todoroki can throw at him and as well as faster.
Oda himself confirmed that Sanji is the most agile fighter amongst the monster trio.

Also Todoroki's heaven piercing ice wall has been dodged by various characters, including characters less agile than Sanji. Or do you wanna argue that Stain is more agile than Sanji? I stand by points I even detailed explained why.

Alright that makes sense, can todoroki's fire have an effect on sanji?

 

[RazumaHiroki]

Alright that makes sense, can todoroki's fire have an effect on sanji?

His normal fire? not necessarily, Sanji resist his own heat/fire, and his normal fire doesn't one shoot him. In fact, Sanji could also dodge them.

 

[XDragnoir]

Well, Todoroki's attacks are noticeably faster than himself tho, so speed equal it isn't really that easy for Sanji to avoid

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

His normal fire? not necessarily, Sanji resist his own heat/fire, and his normal fire doesn't one shoot him. In fact, Sanji could also dodge them.

He'll probably not dodge the flames if he dodges the initial spike wall because he'll probably be mid air, so maybe a flash fire could kill?

 

[RazumaHiroki]

Well, Todoroki's attacks are noticeably faster than himself tho, so speed equal it isn't really that easy for Sanji to avoid

His attack speed don't blitz and characters comparable to Todoroki, usually dodge them with ease, as nobody has shown to struggle with it's speed. Since starting distance is a thing, Sanji sees ice coming his way, he will dodge it.

 

[RazumaHiroki]

He'll probably not dodge the flames if he dodges the initial spike wall because he'll probably be mid air, so maybe a flash fire could kill?

Not in-character and that requires proof. That's also under the assumption that Todoroki would expect him to dodge his initial attack or that everything for some reason goes slow motion which is very unrealistic.

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

Not in-character and that requires proof. That's also under the assumption that Todoroki would expect him to dodge his initial attack or that everything for some reason goes slow motion which is very unrealistic.

I don't really know how todoroki fights this point in the story, but todoroki can just you know, see sanji dodging it then prepare a fire attack?

 

[RazumaHiroki]

I don't really know how todoroki fights this point in the story, but todoroki can just you know, see sanji dodging it then prepare a fire attack?

The reason why I said it's very unrealistic is because you are assuming that Todoroki is suddenly massively faster than Sanji and can perform two or 4 actions, while Sanji is still in mid-air for some unknown reasons when you are severely underestimating Issac Newton's law.

Small edit: Sanji can jump ridiculously fast as seen as he dodged a barrage of light beams from Pacifista alongside Luffy and Zoro. Furthermore Sanji has statistic amplification he is the one who gets faster.

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

The reason why I said it's very unrealistic is because you are assuming that Todoroki is suddenly massively faster than Sanji and can perform two or 4 actions, while Sanji is still in mid-air for some unknown reasons when you are severely underestimating Issac Newton's law.

Small edit: Sanji can jump ridiculously fast as seen as he dodged a barrage of light beams from Pacifista alongside Luffy and Zoro. Furthermore Sanji has statistic amplification he is the one who gets faster.

their speed is equal, so todoroki shoots ice wall, sanji dodges, todoroki reacts and attacks with fire, sanji is still in the air and tries to attack but is far away and gets hit. I don't see how this is unrealistic.

 

[XDragnoir]

His attack speed don't blitz and characters comparable to Todoroki, usually dodge them with ease, as nobody has shown to struggle with it's speed. Since starting distance is a thing, Sanji sees ice coming his way, he will dodge it.

He did blitz Sero with it tho, and his attack speed is split from his other speeds in all keys so i think they are indeed above his other speeds, but i don't read BNH that much so no idea really.

 

[RazumaHiroki]

their speed is equal, so todoroki shoots ice wall, sanji dodges, todoroki reacts and attacks with fire, sanji is still in the air and tries to attack but is far away and gets hit. I don't see how this is unrealistic.

Speed equalisation isn't an argument for everything, Issac Newton's law is still applicable here or are you telling me physics such as falling or jumping doesn't work anymore, you do know that speed equalisation only forced things such as movement speed, combat speed and reaction speed but other things are completely unaffected by it, such as maneuverability, agility and specific methods as well as amps. As stated above Sanji has like all 3 of them.

It's highly unrealistic to assume that Sanji's still in the mid-air for 2-5 mins, when Sanji is consistently shown to jumping explosions, danmaku and giant fists/kicks such as Oars, Pacific's laser beams and other things without any difficulty and then the next sec his feet are on the ground again. Did you even read the half of my other arguments or just skimmed through it because honestly this is the third time I explained it to you? Sanji is far more agile than Stain, Zoro and Luffy, so naturally he will dodge better than Stain, unless you really wanna argue stain or anyone who's relative to Todoroki are more agile than Sanji?

(According to SBS and the Databooks that Sanji is more agile than the two mentioned above because Luffy is the balance type and Zoro is the powerhouse, there's also a statement from Oda in which he said that Brook and Sanji are the fastest, excluding Gear 2 Luffy).

 

[RazumaHiroki]

He did blitz Sero with it tho, and his attack speed is split from his other speeds in all keys so i think they are indeed above his other speeds, but i don't read BNH that much so no idea really.

Sero isn't relative to Todoroki in speed nor does he scale to him.

 

[RazumaHiroki]

Well, I was expecting someone to refute my initial argument why Sanji wins. But If I had to sump up their advantages (at least, how I look at it) it would go like this:

Todoroki

• Two Flash abilities that can one shot Sanji.
• Range advantage - starts with insert ability already mentioned above.
• Range Game, since Todoroki is a range fighter, he'll naturally try the range game.

Sanji

• Literally all of his abilities that can one shot Todoroki (since his durability is glass cannon)
• Has extremely high agility and maneuverability
• is smarter than Todoroki (Sanji is gifted, while Todoroki is above average)
• Sanji is highly skilled (his material art and everything was already covered in my first paragraph)
• Has experience fighting enemies with wide range advantage, can easily jump on or over huge objects as seen in Davy back arc.
• Won't let Todoroki do the range game and force him to engage him in close combat, due to Sanji's superior experience, intelligence and skills it's a Game over.

Before anyone use the argument that Todoroki could bait or trick Sanji, unfortunately, Sanji holds the intelligence and skills advantage here, furthermore he's no stranger to such tricks since he has been fighting despicable pirates on a daily basis who always resort to dirty methods.

Before this thread gets flooded, these are the advantages for both characters.

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

Speed equalisation isn't an argument for everything, Issac Newton's law is still applicable here or are you telling me physics such as falling or jumping doesn't work anymore, you do know that speed equalisation only forced things such as movement speed, combat speed and reaction speed but other things are completely unaffected by it, such as maneuverability, agility and specific methods as well as amps. As stated above Sanji has like all 3 of them.

It's highly unrealistic to assume that Sanji's still in the mid-air for 2-5 mins, when Sanji is consistently shown to jumping explosions, danmaku and giant fists/kicks such as Oars, Pacific's laser beams and other things without any difficulty and then the next sec his feet are on the ground again. Did you even read the half of my other arguments or just skimmed through it because honestly this is the third time I explained it to you? Sanji is far more agile than Stain, Zoro and Luffy, so naturally he will dodge better than Stain, unless you really wanna argue stain or anyone who's relative to Todoroki are more agile than Sanji?

(According to SBS and the Databooks that Sanji is more agile than the two mentioned above because Luffy is the balance type and Zoro is the powerhouse, there's also a statement from Oda in which he said that Brook and Sanji are the fastest, excluding Gear 2 Luffy).

what? 2-5 minutes? This is all gonna take place in a few seconds, by the time sanji dodges and is in the air and falling, todoroki can think and then move his hand to release fire, he won't be able to dodge mid air, so todoroki can K.O with fire or keep sanji away for enough time to use a flash freeze.

 

[RazumaHiroki]

what? 2-5 minutes? This is all gonna take place in a few seconds, by the time sanji dodges and is in the air and falling, todoroki can think and then move his hand to release fire, he won't be able to dodge mid air, so todoroki can K.O with fire or keep sanji away for enough time to use a flash freeze.

That was an exaggeration, because again Sanji dodges danmaku and Characters at least 13-14 meters tall, so him dodging and rushing towards Todoroki is not an issue, due to the fact that Todoroki spamming Ice doesn't mean Sanji can't jump on it or avoid it by running the other side around it.

Nice Fanfic Todoroki, because he never does that, i specifically asked for proof of him fighting in such a manner, which you still haven't proven it. Also as stated above, it's not happening as you completely ignores everything i said and only picked a part of it to refute.

 

[XDragnoir]

Sero isn't relative to Todoroki in speed nor does he scale to him.

Yeah just read his (Sero's) profile, my bad about that, it seems his projectiles/AOE have the same speed as his combat/reactions, idk why they are split then.

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

That was an exaggeration, because again Sanji dodges danmaku and Characters at least 13-14 meters tall, so him dodging and rushing towards Todoroki is not an issue, due to the fact that Todoroki spamming Ice doesn't mean Sanji can't jump on it or avoid it by running the other side around it.

Nice Fanfic Todoroki, because he never does that, i specifically asked for proof of him fighting in such a manner, which you still haven't proven it. Also as stated above, it's not happening as you completely ignores everything i said and only picked a part of it to refute.

todoroki's attacks are way bigger than 10-20 meters. Well how does todoroki fight then? I'm just stating what would be the obvious thing to do in his situation.

 

[RazumaHiroki]

todoroki's attacks are way bigger than 10-20 meters. Well how does todoroki fight then? I'm just stating what would be the obvious thing to do in his situation.

So, you are implying Todoroki's ice is bigger than Oars? can you prove that, literally the manga contradicts your claim when people massively smaller than Oars, such as Deku, Stain, Bakugo and Dabi dodges his 20 Meters Attacks. Honestly, i'm getting irritated at you ignoring 95% of what i said, claiming things he doesn't do in-character and things i literally explained why it shouldn't work. For the fourth time, are you arguing that Todoroki's ice is undodgable even against characters relative to him speed or characters less agile than him, or him opening up any flash abilities because he somehow knows two of his abilities can one shoot him?

 

[RazumaHiroki]

Since you kept avoiding them, i'm going to repost them again.

Alright to give it an in-depth analysis.

1) Todoroki in-character always leads with Heaven-Piercing Ice-wall -- massive ice ridge coming from his feet, an ability that has been dodged countless times by various characters. Especially if you are agile or more skilled than Todoroki like Stain. Since that will be Todoroki's starter move and Sanji sees Ice coming while carefully rushing towards Todoroki, he will of course leaps into the air (because Sanji's jumping Good is even far better than Zoro and Sanji due to his footwork).

1.1)Still not seeing how Todoroki one shots Sanji when he doesn't even start with any of his flash abilities and only in mid-battle, furthermore what's stopping Sanji from dodging or avoiding it? The size? It's nothing compared to Oars and the giant explosion from Satori's dragon which he dodged (even if speed is equalized he's easily capable of doing that).

2) Todoroki is a range fighter, while Sanji is a close-range fighter, who has vastly better experience than Todoroki', is more intelligent (battle and outside, he outwitted Crocodile twice simultaneously making fun of the entire Baroque works), more skilled than him (due to the nature of black leg style it's a combination of Capoeira, Teakwondo and all other material arts that resolves around kicking, in addition he is almost relative to Zoro and Luffy as well as utterly stomping three CP9 Agents).

2.1) Once Sanji closes the distance between him and Todoroki, a single sequence of his black leg would be enough to blind Todoroki or cause a lot of damage to his face (This is because Sanji's fighting style is focused around on hitting fragile parts of the human body, as such as his eyes, throat, chin, throat, teeth, Sanji is so skilled at hitting the vital points of the human face that he literally alters the bone and biological structure of the target's face with kicks) Ah yes I almost forgot Todoroki's durability is glass canon, he's only City+ against fire and ice, one of Sanji's leg isn't coated with DJ that means one kick should one shoot him.

Well, I was expecting someone to refute my initial argument why Sanji wins. But If I had to sump up their advantages (at least, how I look at it) it would go like this:

Todoroki

• Two Flash abilities that can one shot Sanji.
• Range advantage - starts with insert ability already mentioned above.
• Range Game, since Todoroki is a range fighter, he'll naturally try the range game.

Sanji

• Literally all of his abilities that can one shot Todoroki (since his durability is glass cannon)
• Has extremely high agility and maneuverability
• is smarter than Todoroki (Sanji is gifted, while Todoroki is above average)
• Sanji is highly skilled (his material art and everything was already covered in my first paragraph)
• Has experience fighting enemies with wide range advantage, can easily jump on or over huge objects as seen in Davy back arc.
• Won't let Todoroki do the range game and force him to engage him in close combat, due to Sanji's superior experience, intelligence and skills it's a Game over.

Before anyone use the argument that Todoroki could bait or trick Sanji, unfortunately, Sanji holds the intelligence and skills advantage here, furthermore he's no stranger to such tricks since he has been fighting despicable pirates on a daily basis who always resort to dirty methods.

Speed equalisation isn't an argument for everything, Issac Newton's law is still applicable here or are you telling me physics such as falling or jumping doesn't work anymore, you do know that speed equalisation only forced things such as movement speed, combat speed and reaction speed but other things are completely unaffected by it, such as maneuverability, agility and specific methods as well as amps. As stated above Sanji has like all 3 of them.

It's highly unrealistic to assume that Sanji's still in the mid-air for 2-5 mins, when Sanji is consistently shown to jumping explosions, danmaku and giant fists/kicks such as Oars, Pacific's laser beams and other things without any difficulty and then the next sec his feet are on the ground again. Did you even read the half of my other arguments or just skimmed through it because honestly this is the third time I explained it to you? Sanji is far more agile than Stain, Zoro and Luffy, so naturally he will dodge better than Stain, unless you really wanna argue stain or anyone who's relative to Todoroki are more agile than Sanji?

(According to SBS and the Databooks that Sanji is more agile than the two mentioned above because Luffy is the balance type and Zoro is the powerhouse, there's also a statement from Oda in which he said that Brook and Sanji are the fastest, excluding Gear 2 Luffy).

Small Edit: Todoroki's first move - "Undodgable"

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

So, you are implying Todoroki's ice is bigger than Oars? can you prove that, literally the manga contradicts your claim when people massively smaller than Oars, such as Deku, Stain, Bakugo and Dabi dodges his 20 Meters Attacks. Honestly, i'm getting irritated at you ignoring 95% of what i said, claiming things he doesn't do in-character and things i literally explained why it shouldn't work. For the fourth time, are you arguing that Todoroki's ice is undodgable even against characters relative to him speed or characters less agile than him, or him opening up any flash abilities because he somehow knows two of his abilities can one shoot him?

IDK how big oars is but todoroki's ice is definitely bigger tahn 20 meters it's range is tens of meters which could go up to 100 meters.
No it's not undodgeable, I'm just saying that todoroki could ko with fire if sanji dodges because it will be harder to dodge mid air, then todoroki will likely then go for a flash freeze thing.

 

[RazumaHiroki]

IDK how big oars is but todoroki's ice is definitely bigger tahn 20 meters it's range is tens of meters which could go up to 100 meters.
No it's not undodgeable, I'm just saying that todoroki could ko with fire if sanji dodges because it will be harder to dodge mid air, then todoroki will likely then go for a flash freeze thing.

Nice ignoring my arguments again and not providing any proof. Idk, why i keep responding to your arguments when you aren't bothering to read any of mine nor refuting them. Not going to entertain you any longer, so one last thing (and i hope you aren't going to ignore this one too).

Sanji takes this easily. Sanji has the skill, durability(Todoroki's normal fire fire and ice don't anything), maneuverability and has extremely high agility making it AGAIN MUCH EASIER TO DODGE THEM THAN ANYONE COMPARABLE TO TODOROKI, Once Again HE IS NOT STILL IN MID-AIR (I forgot you completely ignored my 3-4 arguments)
Todoroki is a glass cannon in this fight, has only two abilities to one shot WHICH HE ONLY USES AS LAST RESORT OR RARELY ON-SCREEN.

Oars 67 m (219'10"), i guess i won't see proof of "20 meters" ice. You can also take a look at this. I'm done here.

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

Nice ignoring my arguments again and not providing any proof. Idk, why i keep responding to your arguments when you aren't bothering to read any of mine nor refuting them. Not going to entertain you any longer, so one last thing (and i hope you aren't going to ignore this one too).

Sanji takes this easily. Sanji has the skill, durability(Todoroki's normal fire fire and ice don't anything), maneuverability and has extremely high agility making it AGAIN MUCH EASIER TO DODGE THEM THAN ANYONE COMPARABLE TO TODOROKI, Once Again HE IS NOT STILL IN MID-AIR (I forgot you completely ignored my 3-4 arguments)
Todoroki is a glass cannon in this fight, has only two abilities to one shot WHICH HE ONLY USES AS LAST RESORT OR RARELY ON-SCREEN.

Oars 67 m (219'10"), i guess i won't see proof of "20 meters" ice. You can also take a look at this. I'm done here.

I don't really know why you are so angry, I'm agreeing with you mostly but just seeing if todoroki could win this, Todoroki could see that sanji wasn't effected by the spike wall and then he'd use fire to keep him away, if that works he will use a technique that one shots, but I think sanji should win if he can also dodge the fire, but I don't see how he's not gonna be vulnerable after dodging the spike wall like aizawa did, it's either gonna create distance and time for todoroki or leave sanji vulnerable.

 

[RazumaHiroki]

I don't really know why you are so angry, I'm agreeing with you mostly but just seeing if todoroki could win this, Todoroki could see that sanji wasn't effected by the spike wall and then he'd use fire to keep him away, if that works he will use a technique that one shots, but I think sanji should win if he can also dodge the fire, but I don't see how he's not gonna be vulnerable after dodging the spike wall like aizawa did, it's either gonna create distance and time for todoroki or leave sanji vulnerable.

Because i kept telling you the same things and you ignored them. Can you blame? i feel like explaining everything 5 or 6 times, i kept asking for proof or scans and never get anything. Idk, how you see that, but i feel like talking to a wall (and talking to a wall is a sign of craziness)

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

Because i kept telling you the same things and you ignored them. Can you blame? i feel like explaining everything 5 or 6 times, i kept asking for proof or scans and never get anything. Idk, how you see that, but i feel like talking to a wall (and talking to a wall is a sign of craziness)

I already said I don't know how todoroki fights in his future keys, so I'm just going off what I think he'll do.

 

[RazumaHiroki]

I already said I don't know how todoroki fights in his future keys, so I'm just going off what I think he'll do.

And most of things what you think are unrealistic assumptions, headcanon and absolutely out of character in most scenarios if you are arguing for a character you should have atleast made research beforehand it's like saying Gremmy from Bleach starts imaging his opponent dead because his character profile says reality warping and person B (that would be me) is specifically asking you to provide scans of fighting "Gremmy" in fighting in such a manner or leads with abilities he never leads.

Not to mention you are assuming Todoroki's attacks instantly reaches Sanji and Sanji is still in "mid-air for 30-secs" just for Todorki to use his fire because his attacks are suddenly instantaneous and Newton's law + Maneuverability, Agility, etc are no longer a thing in a speed equalized match? i mentioned many times his fire wouldn't one shot considering that he already has fire resistance to his profile. Just because you think is logical doesn't mean it's "common sense" or "in-character" otherwise Plot-induced-stupidly isn't a thing, and i just love the assumption how someone with above-average intelligence outsmarts someone with gifted intelligence. But then again, everything i said was already covered in my first paragraph, my second paragraph and my third paragraph. What i am doing is literally repeating myself, honestly, i'm done here.

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

And most of things what you think are unrealistic assumptions, headcanon and absolutely out of character in most scenarios if you are arguing for a character you should have atleast made research beforehand it's like saying Gremmy from Bleach starts imaging his opponent dead because his character profile says reality warping and person B (that would be me) is specifically asking you to provide scans of fighting "Gremmy" in fighting in such a manner or leads with abilities he never leads.

Not to mention you are assuming Todoroki's attacks instantly reaches Sanji and Sanji is still in "mid-air for 30-secs" just for Todorki to use his fire because his attacks are suddenly instantaneous and Newton's law + Maneuverability, Agility, etc are no longer a thing in a speed equalized match? i mentioned many times his fire wouldn't one shot considering that he already has fire resistance to his profile. Just because you think is logical doesn't mean it's "common sense" or "in-character" otherwise Plot-induced-stupidly isn't a thing, and i just love the assumption how someone with above-average intelligence outsmarts someone with gifted intelligence. But then again, everything i said was already covered in my first paragraph, my second paragraph and my third paragraph. What i am doing is literally repeating myself, honestly, i'm done here.

who is gremmy? From bleach? oh no spoilers I'm skipping that paragraph.
Man half the things you say I said I never did, todoroki's attacks won't reach instantly, sanji will be in the air for only a few seconds, I never said todoroki will out smart sanji. All I said is if sanji dodges the spike wall, he'll be left vulnerable for a flame attack because he can't move freely in the air, and if he survive that, it'll buy todoroki time to attack sanji with a flash freeze.

 

[RazumaHiroki]

This Guy..... Okay, not going to bother to refute any of your argument anymore (At least @Monkey would bother to read them and not skimming through it). I stand by what i said. Voting Sanji for FRA.

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

IDK who to vote for, I see them equally likely to win so I'm voting inconclusive.

 

[BuilderROB]

Bump.

 

[BuilderROB]

Bump.

 

[BuilderROB]

Bump.

 

[BuilderROB]

Bump.

 

[BuilderROB]

Well, Todoroki's attacks are noticeably faster than himself tho, so speed equal it isn't really that easy for Sanji to avoid

Since you commented here earlier and didn’t vote, what’s your vote on this matchup if you have one?

 

[BuilderROB]

Bump.

 

[XDragnoir]

Since you commented here earlier and didn’t vote, what’s your vote on this matchup if you have one?

Meh, i think Sanji wins, not that easy but he probably wins.

 

[BuilderROB]

Bump.

 

[BuilderROB]

Bump.

 

[BuilderROB]

Bump.