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Star Wars Revisions

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ByAsura said:
In TPM, one's head actually falls off when they're shut down. The Clone Wars era B1s are upgraded to be autonomous, but that's it, so I could see their necks being weaker.
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The neck joints do indeed seem to be a major weakness for B1s and even BX droid commandos.

The latter can take out ARC troopers with a single twirling blow and take a lot of punishment in the torso. But on one occasion Rex took one out by yanking at and twisting its neck.
 
Hellbeast said:
Again o have to ask why Wall level feats they have
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Star Wars peak humans?

Well Han has one or two 9-B durability feat(s). Lando would scale to that, since he can knock out Han with a punch. Leia would also scale for fighting evenly against a guy who could kick Han's ass (albeit that guy and Leia have far greater martial arts skills). Magna Tolvan has a baseline 9-A feat, and Aphra took a blow to the head from her. Dengar punched Chewie through a wall on one occasion. Boba Fett is at least as strong as Dengar and has a door kicking feat that is probably 9-B. Dengar and Latts Razzi have both been fine after being knocked off of a high-speed train and falling multiple storeys. Dengar can seemingly take punches from Beilert Valance, who can punch through solid concrete walls (albeit Valance was likely holding back).

Rex should scale to 9-B for being able to knock out Zygerrian royal guards who can survive falls of several storeys. There is one example of Clone Troopers being fine after being Force pushed into a solid metal wall of a Gozanti-class with enough force to crack said wall and send chunks of metal flying out (head first and without their helmets on). They were in pain, but were not knocked out and got right back up (image link).
 
Hellbeast said:
I mean the b1’s
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Oops... Sorry.

ByAsura said:
I've done the calculations. Hopefully, they can be accepted.
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Nice.

Some things:

Would the Maxillipede durability affect the revised ratings for shuttle and starfighter laser cannons, bumping them to 8-B+ or at least 8-A baseline? After all, they can seemingly one-shot or two-shot shuttles like these when unshielded.

I also think the high end is reasonable for the Charger C70, especially given that even corvettes/frigates like these can seemingly take some turbolaser fire before being destroyed. It would also make sense for a ship in this size range to have this kind of durability, given that we have a nearly baseline 6-C durability for a ship roughly thrice the size.

Aren't proton bombs in Legends straight up 800 Petajoules (190 Megatons) per the infamous Curtis Saxton figures? They obviously don't produce conventional explosions of that level though. However, I guess it would depend on the model and purpose.

---

PS:
I have one more question? Is it possible to calc the mass of a Venator in Canon? We know ISDs weigh 40 million tons.
 
I'd say possibly 8-A for each ship in Star Wars because 8-B to 8-B+ is far more consistent. However, it would bring characters like Obi-Wan much closer to Vader per Kanan wrecking something way larger and more durable than a Maxillipede shuttle.

I agree, and it's very consistent. The Charger c70 is refitted for war, but it's also tiny and probably less armed compared to an Arquitens or the command CR90 Corvettes that the Rebellion field (they've fought on par with and even outclassed Arquitens-class Command Cruisers, which are upgraded versions of the Light Cruisers in the Clone Wars), let alone a Nebulon-B Frigate. In Ambush, a light laser cannon volley from two Munificents even blows one up.

I guess they could be 800 PJ, but I tend not to put too much stake into those things. You're right, though, Proton Bombs are for surgical attack.

Venators are similar in shape to an ISD, but smaller. Scaling down through the square-cube law gets 14 million tons. However, the sides are missing on a Venator, it has massive hangars in the forward hull, and the twin bridge is much smaller. I got about 15 million tonnes by assuming it's titanium.
 
Does this affect the existing Kylo Ren and Rey Forceless ratings? I'm not quite sure what the scaling chain is for them since I haven't really taken part in any big sequel CRT

Also we should probably do the Force users downgrades first, we seem to be going nowhere
 
@Spino Yes, because they scale to Kanan.

I'd prefer to do both at once because they're linked, especially now that these new calcs are out (could you review them, btw?). I'm still finalising some scaling because a lot has changed.

@Lorenzo The ISD is also 40 million tons, so it's actually very consistent.
 
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ByAsura said:
I'd say possibly 8-A for each ship in Star Wars because 8-B to 8-B+ is far more consistent. However, it would bring characters like Obi-Wan much closer to Vader per Kanan wrecking something way larger and more durable than a Maxillipede shuttle.

I agree, and it's very consistent. The Charger c70 is refitted for war, but it's also tiny and probably less armed compared to an Arquitens or the command CR90 Corvettes that the Rebellion field (they've fought on par with and even outclassed Arquitens-class Command Cruisers, which are upgraded versions of the Light Cruisers in the Clone Wars), let alone a Nebulon-B Frigate. In Ambush, a light laser cannon volley from two Munificents even blows one up.

I guess they could be 800 PJ, but I tend not to put too much stake into those things. You're right, though, Proton Bombs are for surgical attack.

Venators are similar in shape to an ISD, but smaller. Scaling down through the square-cube law gets 14 million tons. However, the sides are missing on a Venator, it has massive hangars in the forward hull, and the twin bridge is much smaller. I got about 15 million tonnes by assuming it's titanium.
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Kanan...? Hmm... You mean when he telekinetically hurled asteroids at a Gauntlet fighter?

Actually, CR90 corvettes are roughly comparable in size and firepower to a Charger c70. They don't stand a chance against something like an Arquitens, which is over twice the length and far more well armed. In Moving Target, a couple of CR90s escorting a Nebulon frigate quickly get the shit kicked out of them by a couple of Arquitens cruisers. Nebulon frigates are a better match for the Arquitens. The largest imperial navy warship that a CR90 can take on is probably the Raider corvette, which is also in the same size range.

Venators are more than likely built from durasteel and such. I'll look at the blog later.

Man, you have been working really hard on this stuff.
 
Yes.

That's why I specified the Command Cruiser CR90s. The Rebels refitted these ships to go toe to toe with Arquitens-class Command Cruisers, with Admiral Konstantine even calling for reinforcements at the mere sight of one. The normal CR90 isn't made for combat, it's just a lightly armed craft that uses its size, speed, moderate firepower and shielding to get past blockades. Comparatively, the much smaller Braha'tok-class gunship is better armed (I think they have about the same shield strength, but I'll have to look into Twilight Company again).

I agree. Titanium was a low-ball.

Probably way too hard, but I've managed to restructure my schedule to balance free time, work and study fairly well.
 
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ByAsura said:
@Spino Yes, because they scale to Kanan.

I'd prefer to do both at once because they're linked, especially now that these new calcs are out (could you review them, btw?). I'm still finalising some scaling because a lot has changed.

@Lorenzo The ISD is also 40 million tons, so it's actually very consistent.
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i get that, but just think about how massive the number is. is 40 mil a confirmed number? i think one of u said that up above
 
40 mill is confirmed, yes. In that same comic issue, the ISD is also stated to be 1.6 kilometres long.

I don't think it seems to heavy at all. ISDs have durasteel hulls, and the largest ship in the world (length 458 metres, width 67, and height of 24) is 564,763 tonnes. The Venator, for reference, is 1.137 kilometres long, 548 metres in width, and has a height of 268 metres.
 
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ByAsura said:
Probably way too hard, but I've managed to restructure my schedule to balance free time, work and study fairly well.
Click to expand...
I just hope you don't burn out. Take care, man.

Lorenzo.r.2nd said:
i get that, but just think about how massive the number is. is 40 mil a confirmed number? i think one of u said that up above
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We real life humans have ships that are only a third of a kilometre long and weigh hundreds of thousands of tonnes. It's not hard to believe that Star Wars ships capital ships, which are dozens to hundreds of times the volume of our largest ships, weigh dozens to hundreds of times as much.

And, as ByAsura said, 1.6 km long ISDs are explicitly stated to be 40 million tons in one comic issue.
 
Soldier_Blue said:
I just hope you don't burn out. Take care, man.


We real life humans have ships that are only a third of a kilometre long and weigh hundreds of thousands of tonnes. It's not hard to believe that Star Wars ships capital ships, which are dozens to hundreds of times the volume of our largest ships, weigh dozens to hundreds of times as much.

And, as ByAsura said, 1.6 km long ISDs are explicitly stated to be 40 million tons in one comic issue.
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...thanks for reinstating everything he just said to me. i do wonder tho, yall think they actually went through the trouble of calculating a possible weight for it?
 
@Soldier_Blue I've been reading the Galaxy's Edge novel with Archex. Where does he fight a Karkarodon (I assume Rusko)?
 
2016. As I said, it also says the ISD is 1.6 km.

There's absolutely nothing to contradict this number in canon.
 
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I completely miswrote that. What I meant to say is that it also mentioned the ISD is 1.6 km.
 
Lorenzo.r.2nd said:
...thanks for reinstating everything he just said to me.
Click to expand...
Sorry.

Lorenzo.r.2nd said:
i do wonder tho, yall think they actually went through the trouble of calculating a possible weight for it?
Click to expand...
I actually doubt it. More reliable calc'ers had pegged ISDs at over 400 million tonnes, which is ten times the official figure. It's more than likely they used some kind of real life reference and merely scaled up without thinking.

ByAsura said:
@Soldier_Blue I've been reading the Galaxy's Edge novel with Archex. Where does he fight a Karkarodon (I assume Rusko)?
Click to expand...
Towards the end. It is stated that he takes blows from said Karkarodon and two others while also dishing out his own.
 
Soldier_Blue said:
Sorry.


I actually doubt it. More reliable calc'ers had pegged ISDs at over 400 million tonnes, which is ten times the official figure. It's more than likely they used some kind of real life reference and merely scaled up without thinking.


Towards the end. It is stated that he takes blows from said Karkarodon and two others while also dishing out his own.
Click to expand...
cool shit cool shit
 
I've made some changes to the sandbox. There's still a few ratings I'll have to figure out.
 
vsbattles.fandom.com

ByAsura/Sandbox7

vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com
I'm thinking that concussion missiles shouldn't always scale to torpedoes. There's multiple examples of starfighter-grade GCW-era missiles not destroying Y-wings, and the Falcon's couldn't take out an Arquitens-class light cruiser, whereas a couple proton torpedoes could.
 
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I was asking based off the sandbox ratings (which have 8-A Kanan all the way to 8-A Palpatine.)
 
They've been changed to 8-A due to new calcs. Keep in mind that scaling went from Town level+ (60-70 kt) to 300 kt at one point. The new scaling is ~100 t Kanan to 500 t Rebels era Vader.
 
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So here's the full scaling and my explanations.

Ahsoka scales to this feat. However, it's doubtful that even all of these Padawans would equal one Ahsoka, whose Force potential was so massive that she was assigned to Anakin (he even describes her potential as enormous) and became a Padawan at a much younger age than normal. They have trouble lifting lightsabers and breaking human-sized ice walls. So she's City Block level, with a close plus rating rather than just 27 tons. This makes sense, as she's inferior to the likes of Anakin, Ventress and Grievous, but can still put up a good fight.

Kanan lightly damaged a Kom'rk-class fighter, and later progressively grew in power. The far smaller and less armoured Maxillipede withstood a 102.4 ton crash with severe damage to the outer armour, but none to the interior. It's worth noting that a moderately upscaled version of a shuttle that's virtually the same as a Maxillipede survived a glancing crash from a Droid Fighter, which is known to obliterate shielded Clone Wars-era, and was not destroyed.

Ventress, Obi-Wan and Anakin are somewhat difficult to scale because they grow much more powerful throughout the series and display different degrees of superiority. Similarly, Darth Maul was more powerful after Obi-Wan defeated him on Naboo, and only continued to grow stronger alongside Savage (it's even commented that his strength grows day-by-day). It was stated that Anakin grew far more powerful between the end of the Clone Wars and Ahsoka's departure, which occurred one episode before Season 6. After turning to the Dark Side (not to mention training with Sidious), Anakin grows stronger, and Obi-Wan eventually matches him. Keep in mind that there's a roughly 9 month gap for Obi-Wan to have grown stronger since the Dooku and Anakin fights.

By 14 BBY, Vader far surpassed Anakin. In Rebels (3 BBY), he also withstood a 491-ton temple explosion.

Ahsoka (50~ tons) < Season 1 Kanan (100~ tons) < Grand Inquisitor < Ventress (pre and post-Dark Disciple) ~ Obi-Wan ~ Anakin ~ Maul ("Resurrection") ~ Ahsoka (Season 7) ~ Savage ~ Grievous < Dooku ~ Anakin (Season 6) < Anakin (ROTS) < Pre-Mustafar Vader = Obi-Wan < Darth Vader (14 BBY) < Sidious.

I'm not sure where early Maul goes, but I doubt a Sith Lord that defeated fought a celebrated Jedi Master and very powerful Padawan is inferior to the Grand Inquisitor or early Ventress, let alone Season 1 Kanan.
 
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