Star Wars Revisions

[Hellbeast]

Weakened Palpatine scales above him. Then we have Vader, past Luke, etc. I don't think it's too controversial to put Endor Luke too massively behind someone much weaker than base Palpatine. It's also consistent with Vader's statement about Bendu.

So what would Snoke’s Tier be?

Well old Luke has a High 7-C feat but then for Vader his best feat is only 8-A at his prime if my memory serves

Was this the island feat?

 

[Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan]

Yes

 

[Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan]

Vader doesn't have 8-A feats himself, it's mostly scaling from a baseline character. His best feat is almost tearing apart an AT-AT in a few moments just after ANH.

Doesn't Vader have an explosion durability feat?

 

[ByAsura]

Oh yeah. But he was almost completely undamaged by the explosion, other than a little bit of ragged breathing after fighting Ahsoka. I could easily see him being a dozen times higher.

 

[Hellbeast]

Doesn't Vader have an explosion durability feat?

Couldn’t that just be via the Force Barriers tho?

 

[ByAsura]

That still scales to TK.

 

[Hellbeast]

That still scales to TK.

I mean would it?
It's an extension of TK but to my knowledge the Force Field feats are superior to the regular TK ones which makes me think it shouldn;t

 

[ByAsura]

Telekinesis is just force fields applied differently. If anything, they're applying more telekinesis to a smaller area with force blasts. Force reflection is also a thing.

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

as a suggestion would it be perhaps easier if we split the scaling via era, in the same way split up scaling for Naruto back in the day via part 1 and then part 2 as oppose to tackling everything at once.

 

[Hellbeast]

as a suggestion would it be perhaps easier if we split the scaling via era, in the same way split up scaling for Naruto back in the day via part 1 and then part 2 as oppose to tackling everything at once.

i can see that
Would that mean we have them as
“Part 1: Prequel Era”
“Part 2:” Civil War Era”
Part 3: Sequel Era”

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

yeah so we could deal with PT era profiles first, the load would become less and less, as I'm sure ST era has the least amount of people to worry about.

 

[ByAsura]

Virtually all of the PT characters would also have multiple keys, so that's a good idea.

This is the current scaling in my sandbox.

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

for Pre TFA Kylo/TFA Kylo he scales above Empire Strikes Back Luke Skywalker who is above The Grand Inquisitor

 

[ByAsura]

I think that makes sense. He's older, comparable in potential, and better trained.

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

my internet cut out before i could finish what I was writing, I meant that I think it would be a good thing to mention on his profile as it gives us a nice baseline to work off of for the ST era.

ALL The Spirit Rey> Dyad amp Rey/Kylo> TROS KYLO>TROS REY> TLJ Kylo = TLJ Rey> TFA Kylo> ESB Luke.

 

[Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan]

Yeah I believe we already planned to have keys for most of the prequel main characters at least

 

[Hellbeast]

Yeah I recall Maul was getting two or three and I think Dooku was getting a pre Jedi one

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

Yoda will likely get a HR key aswell

 

[ByAsura]

Maul & Ahsoka have three, Anakin has two (I don't think there's a point to having a key before or during AoTC, which would be clear from my justifications on the sandbox), Obi-Wan has four (keep in mind, we have 40 years worth of strength growth for him). I'm currently looking into some more Oppress stuff, because his strength was likely on par with TMP Maul and growing rapidly.

We don't know enough about Dooku, only that he was way less powerful and still surpassed the vast majority of pre-Clone Wars Jedi Order, and probably most of them during the Clone Wars. I think one key is enough.

An HR Yoda key is a good idea, provided we know enough about his level of strength back then. How far from his peak is he during the prequels?

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

An HR Yoda key is a good idea, provided we know enough about his level of strength back then. How far from his peak is he during the prequels?

not enough atm, all we do know is that Prime Yoda is HR yoda, so depending on what happens in the future, if there is a feat that Prime yoda has that creates a discrepancy in the scaling we can easily amend it with a different key.

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

because based on the trajectory so far, I do think the High republic era will likely have the best canon feats for a while.

 

[ByAsura]

Is there objective proof that Yoda's force powers were greater, though?

There's a modicum of evidence that Force powers diminish over time and with physicality, but there's also characters whose growth rate eclipses that problem entirely (Luke, Dooku, likely Palpatine, Windu and Vader). So I don't think we should base it on his physical state alone, unless discrepancies are involved.

Although, there's already some discrepancies with the whole Hyperspace debris feat.

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

Is there objective proof that Yoda's force powers were greater, though?

not until we start getting feats, otherwise it's just statements.

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

, but there's also characters whose growth rate eclipses that problem entirely (Luke, Dooku, likely Palpatine, Windu and Vader). So I don't think we should base it on his physical state alone, unless discrepancies are involved.

I think the issue seems to be more that the force doesn't scale linearly or consistently and that it really is just a case to case thing.

 

[Lorenzo.r.2nd]

i have learned more about scaling in legends btw, so there is still more stuff to fix, unfortunately

 

[ByAsura]

What stuff?

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

Also we recently found out in the HR a certain person was able to use the force and search hyperspace for certain areas to exploit. so yes this all but confirms that the force exists within hyperspace aswell.

 

[Soldier_Blue]

so yes this all but confirms that the force exists within hyperspace aswell.

We've known this since ANH.

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

I think we could likely make Season 1-2 ish of TCW Anakin and AOTC's Anakin as one key, as far as I'm aware I don't think he gets much stronger since then.

 

[ByAsura]

They are the same key, but Anakin actually is noticeably stronger than AoTC. Dooku remarks on this fact in their rematch during the CW film.

Anakin gets far stronger sometime after Ahsoka leaves. I've added that to his ROTS key, since he takes time to surpass Count Dooku.

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

They are the same key,

meant after the fact

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

also Kylo needs three keys aswell.

 

[Soldier_Blue]

They are the same key, but Anakin actually is noticeably stronger than AoTC. Dooku remarks on this fact in their rematch during the CW film.

Anakin gets far stronger sometime after Ahsoka leaves. I've added that to his ROTS key, since he takes time to surpass Count Dooku.

Anakin faces Dooku once in the Dark Disciple novel, which takes place late in the Clone Wars and nearer the end of the war. Retconning could result in this being the last time Anakin & Dooku fought before ROTS.

also Kylo needs three keys aswell.

Padawan Ben, Kylo Ren, Redeemed Ben?

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

Kylo also gets an Amp from the Dyad later on, not sure if that justifies a new key though, maybe a "Higher" with Dyad or something.

 

[Hellbeast]

I think we could likely make Season 1-2 ish of TCW Anakin and AOTC's Anakin as one key, as far as I'm aware I don't think he gets much stronger since then.

Maybe something like “Early Clone Wars (AOTC - TCW Season 2)

Kylo also gets an Amp from the Dyad later on, not sure if that justifies a new key though, maybe a "Higher" with Dyad or something.

that’s for the final battle in Rise right?

 

[Hellbeast]

Anakin faces Dooku once in the Dark Disciple novel, which takes place late in the Clone Wars and nearer the end of the war. Retconning could result in this being the last time Anakin & Dooku fought before ROTS.

I believe he fights him in Season 4 or 5 of TCW to a standstill so he definitely grew

Dave Filoni also confirmed in the commentary that Dooku was going all out so as to prove if Anakin really was the better choice, outright negating the idea of protection from Sidious

 

[Soldier_Blue]

I believe he fights him in Season 4 or 5 of TCW to a standstill so he definitely grew

Yup. In Dark Disciple, which was actually supposed to be an arc of TCW Season 7/8, Anakin says he's going to fight Dooku 1v1 while Kenobi & Ventress are up to something else. And Kenobi lets him. He was also willing to let Anakin go after Dooku alone at one point in the Sifo-Dyas arc of TCW, when they're fighting Dooku on the Pyke homeworld.

Shows how much Anakin grew in both power and skill throughout the Clone Wars.

 

[Hellbeast]

Yup. In Dark Disciple, which was actually supposed to be an arc of TCW Season 7/8, Anakin says he's going to fight Dooku 1v1 while Kenobi & Ventress are up to something else. And Kenobi lets him. He was also willing to let Anakin go after Dooku alone at one point in the Sifo-Dyas arc of TCW, when they're fighting Dooku on the Pyke homeworld.

Yeah I think it was the Pyke arc (I'll find the statement lol)

Shows how much Anakin grew in both power and skill throughout the Clone Wars.

Oh definitely; it's especially impressive since that's only three years (iirc that's the Clone Wars timeline) for him to go from being a Knight to a top tier Master (**** you Windu)

 

[ByAsura]

The Season 4 & 5 thing is a combination of rage amps and Anakin's brutal, inefficient fighting style. Dooku can take him down with lightning, if needed.

He definitely grows between 3-5, though. Anakin actually fights Dooku on many occasions, including in the comics. It's kind of a regular thing, and it shows that everyone in TCW was getting stronger and stronger.

 

[Hellbeast]

The Season 4 & 5 thing is a combination of rage amps and Anakin's brutal, inefficient fighting style. Dooku can take him down with lightning, if needed.

Ah ok

He definitely grows between 3-5, though. Anakin actually fights Dooku on many occasions, including in the comics. It's kind of a regular thing, and it shows that everyone in TCW was getting stronger and stronger.

So would this mean he gets
"Early Clone Wars (AOTC - Clone Wars Season 3)", "Mid Clone Wars (Clone Wars Season 3 - 6)", "Revenge of the Sith"