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Because he knew the timing of Jiren's counters. Goku willing to kill and being constantly on offense would change the tide of the battle.
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SSB X20 Kaio-Ken Goku vs Current Hit
- Thread starter TheRustyOne
- Start date
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- dragon ball hit son goku
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1. It is literally stated that Hit was timing Dyspo's speed enhanced blows so that he would Hit non-vital areas. It doesn't get simpler than that. That means he was timing blows that were millions of times the speed of light. There's also the fact that he could time his intangibility so that Dyspo would pass through him while using speed boosts, which lead to him almost falling off the ring, until he was saved by the string guy. Goku himself stated that Dyspo's movements were linear. Jiren was shocked that Hit could actually land a blow on him because before Jiren could block his attacks with ease.
2. It does matter cause Hit took arguably more attacks than Goku did and still had the endurance to keep going. He even took more of Jirens speed blitz punches (the red aura punches). Also, you just pointed out that Hit could block Jiren's punches better than Goku, so Hit pretty much has speed in the bag.
3 & 4. So what you're trying to tell me is that Goku with SSB and KK (both 3-A) can harm a Low 2C? Cause that's what you're implying here. Jiren never actually got serious against either of them until the end of their fights where he proceeded to obliterate them. Hit harming Jirens chest didn't matter because a) Jiren is literally infinitely stronger than Hit (3-A vs Low 2C) and b) Jiren can heal. But it's the fact that he adapted to match Jirens speed and landed a hit that is important, and proved that his durability negating techniques are still dangerous.
Goku let Frieza go full power during their fight (were he was serious and bloodlisted) and have Cell a senzu bean because he cares more about fighting than winning. He tried to play with Jiren by going through all his forms instead of getting serious from the get go, even though he knew Jiren > SSB, cause he saw Jiren destroy Berserk Kale, who stomped his Blue form. That's not a good strategy, that's called testing your luck.
While mixing Blue and SSG during his fight with Dyspo was smart, it only got him so far. He still had to rely on his linear movements to gain a lead.
His strategy against Botamo was just "throw him since punching him repeatedly isn't working." Not really a feat of strategic prowess.
His strategy against the snipers was just "destroy the sniper tower." Again, nothing really impressive.
Hit has: outsmarted and trapped two Pride Troopers (Dyspo and Jiren, maybe the strings guy), actually managed to confuses a master ki senser like Goku with his ki clones (fight in the forest), used stealth to gain an edge (Goku and Jiren) and will go for the kill immediately, unlike Goku.
Also, take note that Goku willingly ran through the explosive strings instead of using a ranged attack like Hit did. Even though Goku tanked the explosions, it's an extremely reckless thing to do.
2. It does matter cause Hit took arguably more attacks than Goku did and still had the endurance to keep going. He even took more of Jirens speed blitz punches (the red aura punches). Also, you just pointed out that Hit could block Jiren's punches better than Goku, so Hit pretty much has speed in the bag.
3 & 4. So what you're trying to tell me is that Goku with SSB and KK (both 3-A) can harm a Low 2C? Cause that's what you're implying here. Jiren never actually got serious against either of them until the end of their fights where he proceeded to obliterate them. Hit harming Jirens chest didn't matter because a) Jiren is literally infinitely stronger than Hit (3-A vs Low 2C) and b) Jiren can heal. But it's the fact that he adapted to match Jirens speed and landed a hit that is important, and proved that his durability negating techniques are still dangerous.
Goku let Frieza go full power during their fight (were he was serious and bloodlisted) and have Cell a senzu bean because he cares more about fighting than winning. He tried to play with Jiren by going through all his forms instead of getting serious from the get go, even though he knew Jiren > SSB, cause he saw Jiren destroy Berserk Kale, who stomped his Blue form. That's not a good strategy, that's called testing your luck.
While mixing Blue and SSG during his fight with Dyspo was smart, it only got him so far. He still had to rely on his linear movements to gain a lead.
His strategy against Botamo was just "throw him since punching him repeatedly isn't working." Not really a feat of strategic prowess.
His strategy against the snipers was just "destroy the sniper tower." Again, nothing really impressive.
Hit has: outsmarted and trapped two Pride Troopers (Dyspo and Jiren, maybe the strings guy), actually managed to confuses a master ki senser like Goku with his ki clones (fight in the forest), used stealth to gain an edge (Goku and Jiren) and will go for the kill immediately, unlike Goku.
Also, take note that Goku willingly ran through the explosive strings instead of using a ranged attack like Hit did. Even though Goku tanked the explosions, it's an extremely reckless thing to do.
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And? What's stopping Hit from learning Goku?
If he can do it to jiren he can do it to Goku.
If he can do it to jiren he can do it to Goku.
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JMan seems to be voting for Hit, making 5 votes for Hit, 2 for Goku and 1 for Inconclusive. Hit is getting near his victory, apparently. I'll just watch this debate from a distance with popcorn instead of adding anything relevant.
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@Anderson did you count my vote?
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1. Timing a counter =/= having comparable speed. In fact, that is the very reason why you would time a counter. That's like saying someone with precog is faster than a person who clearly has them in speed, due to their advanced knowledge. Goku stating Dyspo's movements were linear doesn't change the fact that they were also linear for Hit. Hit actually tried to attack Dyspo after his linear attack, "can you move fast in succession?", but Kunshi grabbed his arm with strings before he could do anything, and Goku could easily swat Kunshi's barrage of strings head on. Kunshi having comparable speed to Hit? :^)
2. Hit took more blows while being clearly very damaged, while Goku took comparable hits and didn't have a scratch on him. The only thing Jiren did was wind Goku twice, and use the speed blitz punches, which was the only thing that caused notable damage. Using the speed blitz argument for Hit doesn't work, because he couldn't even stand up after that, and his match was over.
3. No, I'm trying to say statistics would show Goku did comparatively better against Jiren than Hit. Goku landed more blows (2 vs 1), took less damage (Goku was fine from Jiren's physical strikes and ki blasts besides the last blitz), dodged more attacks, and put a little shock on Jiren's face with that surprise kamehameha.
4. Using 2 outlier arguments from DBZ doesn't change what Goku has done in all of Super. Goku actually did sense Hit, at least enough to dodge his attack at the last second.
I'm not seeing how Hit's basic strategy of "Fake it till you make it" is superior to everything that Goku has done.
2. Hit took more blows while being clearly very damaged, while Goku took comparable hits and didn't have a scratch on him. The only thing Jiren did was wind Goku twice, and use the speed blitz punches, which was the only thing that caused notable damage. Using the speed blitz argument for Hit doesn't work, because he couldn't even stand up after that, and his match was over.
3. No, I'm trying to say statistics would show Goku did comparatively better against Jiren than Hit. Goku landed more blows (2 vs 1), took less damage (Goku was fine from Jiren's physical strikes and ki blasts besides the last blitz), dodged more attacks, and put a little shock on Jiren's face with that surprise kamehameha.
4. Using 2 outlier arguments from DBZ doesn't change what Goku has done in all of Super. Goku actually did sense Hit, at least enough to dodge his attack at the last second.
I'm not seeing how Hit's basic strategy of "Fake it till you make it" is superior to everything that Goku has done.
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True, didnt count yours, Aizen. We have 6 for Hit. One more and it will be a victory for Universe 6's Hit.
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Goku for UMR's reasoning.
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With Fllflourine's vote now its 6-3 in Hit's favour. Considering UMR's nice reasoning, Goku could still make a comeback if voters are up to it.
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1. String guy snuck up on Hit while he was focusing on Dyspo, so of course he caught him. The fact that Hit could time an attack that is going super fast AND move his body to block shows off his speed. That's how you dodge attacks. You time it's movements according to your own.
2. Still shows that Hit can hang in there long enough to adapt. He was taking the same blows that Goku did. And Goku was still getting slapped around as well. Also, you're still implying that Goku's attacks legitimately harmed Jiren, which is clearly wrong.
3. But you are. You're saying that Goku's attacks hurt Jiren more than they did Hits. Jiren, who's literally infinitely stronger than everyone in the ring. You're implying that Goku survived legit hits from Jiren, even though it was made obvious that Jiren was suppressing his power. Jiren dodging Goku's attacks means nothing. Unless you're implying that SSB = Jiren.
4. Outliers? They're key examples of Goku's mindset.
He let Frieza power up so he could get a good fight, when he should have been more worried about the fact that Namek was gonna explode, meaning he was gonna get launched into space, where he would die. He let Cell have senzu bean. He played around with Buu when he had the puppy to stop him. He let Vegeta escape to his pod, knowing that he posed a threat to everyone on earth. Goku plays around too much whereas Hit prefers to end things as quickly as possible.
What has Goku done in Super? Throw a guy that he couldn't harm with punches? Destroy a snipers nest? In his second encounter with Hit, his literal first move was to get up close and punch him, knowing that Hit can stop time, adapt and focuses on hitting on weak spots. The smart thing to do would've been to get as far away as possible and nuke the area Hit was in.
But he won't do that. Because Goku loves fighting more than winning.
Hit will get straight to business when he's on the job.
And I already explained why Hit's strategy > Goku's strategy. He's smart enough to snipe a guy who can bust out of a time skip, he's smart enough to snipe a guy who's infinitely stronger than he is, he's smart enough to break an opponents arms if they're proving too difficult, something Goku would never do. His no nonsense and efficient fighting style will let him gain an edge over Goku.
2. Still shows that Hit can hang in there long enough to adapt. He was taking the same blows that Goku did. And Goku was still getting slapped around as well. Also, you're still implying that Goku's attacks legitimately harmed Jiren, which is clearly wrong.
3. But you are. You're saying that Goku's attacks hurt Jiren more than they did Hits. Jiren, who's literally infinitely stronger than everyone in the ring. You're implying that Goku survived legit hits from Jiren, even though it was made obvious that Jiren was suppressing his power. Jiren dodging Goku's attacks means nothing. Unless you're implying that SSB = Jiren.
4. Outliers? They're key examples of Goku's mindset.
He let Frieza power up so he could get a good fight, when he should have been more worried about the fact that Namek was gonna explode, meaning he was gonna get launched into space, where he would die. He let Cell have senzu bean. He played around with Buu when he had the puppy to stop him. He let Vegeta escape to his pod, knowing that he posed a threat to everyone on earth. Goku plays around too much whereas Hit prefers to end things as quickly as possible.
What has Goku done in Super? Throw a guy that he couldn't harm with punches? Destroy a snipers nest? In his second encounter with Hit, his literal first move was to get up close and punch him, knowing that Hit can stop time, adapt and focuses on hitting on weak spots. The smart thing to do would've been to get as far away as possible and nuke the area Hit was in.
But he won't do that. Because Goku loves fighting more than winning.
Hit will get straight to business when he's on the job.
And I already explained why Hit's strategy > Goku's strategy. He's smart enough to snipe a guy who can bust out of a time skip, he's smart enough to snipe a guy who's infinitely stronger than he is, he's smart enough to break an opponents arms if they're proving too difficult, something Goku would never do. His no nonsense and efficient fighting style will let him gain an edge over Goku.
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Hit since he has improved his Time Leap ability and only the likes of Jiren can counter. Goku is gonna need is Ultra Instinct form to make a better comeback.
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LordXcano said:
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Hit - 8
Goku - 4
Goku - 4
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1. Except Hit sped behind Dyspo and Kunshi stopped Hit from a distance before he could attack. Now you're insinuating Hit = Jiren in speed because he timed an attack from him which is far from the case. Timing an attack to where you hit earlier than you normally would doesn't mean you have greater speed, and on that note I'm not discussing that anymore.
2. Now you're turning his adaptation into a NLF. Prove that Hit adapted anywhere in his fight with Jiren. The only thing he did was memorize the timing of Jiren's counters with his body, and attack earlier. He was still getting dragged through the entire fight with no sign of improvement. And why are you trying to change my argument into something I'm not implying based on faulty comprehension?
3. You keep mentioning things like "Dyspo's linear movements" and "Jiren was suppressing his power" like Goku and Hit both didn't fight the same opponents at the same levels. Did you watch the same fight I did? Or.....
4. 3 opponents out of the hundreds he's fought is the definition of an outlier. Goku didn't kill Buu because he didn't want everybody to always rely on him, so that's not helping your argument.
5. "I don't know the extent of this guy's abilities, so I'm just going to nuke the stage and hope for the best" Solid plan. You do know Saiyans get stronger through fighting right?
6. You didn't show Hit's intelligence here. You showed how once he realizes that he's on the ropes, he gets desperate and starts using his more powerful abilities and rational logic which he should've been using earlier.
Don't let this distract you from the fact that Hit was at his best and showing Goku (who wasn't at full power) all of his moves, the match ended in a stalemate, and Goku got in tons of more fights before the tournament, and a zenkai from fighting Jiren on a much higher level.
2. Now you're turning his adaptation into a NLF. Prove that Hit adapted anywhere in his fight with Jiren. The only thing he did was memorize the timing of Jiren's counters with his body, and attack earlier. He was still getting dragged through the entire fight with no sign of improvement. And why are you trying to change my argument into something I'm not implying based on faulty comprehension?
3. You keep mentioning things like "Dyspo's linear movements" and "Jiren was suppressing his power" like Goku and Hit both didn't fight the same opponents at the same levels. Did you watch the same fight I did? Or.....
4. 3 opponents out of the hundreds he's fought is the definition of an outlier. Goku didn't kill Buu because he didn't want everybody to always rely on him, so that's not helping your argument.
5. "I don't know the extent of this guy's abilities, so I'm just going to nuke the stage and hope for the best" Solid plan. You do know Saiyans get stronger through fighting right?
6. You didn't show Hit's intelligence here. You showed how once he realizes that he's on the ropes, he gets desperate and starts using his more powerful abilities and rational logic which he should've been using earlier.
Don't let this distract you from the fact that Hit was at his best and showing Goku (who wasn't at full power) all of his moves, the match ended in a stalemate, and Goku got in tons of more fights before the tournament, and a zenkai from fighting Jiren on a much higher level.
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I hope nobody takes this vote seriously, just look at that faulty reasoning lol.Byakuya "Senbonzakura" Kuchiki said:
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I'm going to have to go with Hit. Just one punch is all he needs to stop Goku. His time lock was so powerful a Low 2-C character has to put in effort to break out of it. So I doubt SSBKKx20 Goku who is far weaker than Jiren can break out of it if even Jiren of all people had to struggle to break out of it. So while Goku is stopped in time Hit will just one shot him with the durability negating invisible ki blast.
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Grace period, I guess, considering Hit now has 9 votes while Goku has only 4.
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@Rice
1. String guy still snuck up on Hit who was distracted. Not implying Hit = Jiren. I've made it a point that basically no one in the tournament = Jiren (barring UI Goku). I'm saying Hit does a better job at adapting to stronger/faster opponents, like how he adapted to suppressed Jiren and landed a blow
2. You've repeatedly stated that Goku made Jiren dodge/block/grunt/etc. I'm just working with what you give me. Never stated that Hit can adapt to anything, made it a point in my list that his adaptation has limits. But seeing as he's adapted to a x10 difference in power in the past just by getting beaten up a little, using his intangibility + improvement to hang in there isn't impossible.
3. I watched the same fight you did. Hit directly adapted to his speed. Goku couldn't even react fast enough to activate Instant Transmission. Hit reacted fast enough to active intangibility.
4. All the other opponents he beat cause he was stronger than them. He could've beaten those 3 even quicker if he had gone for the kill immediately. We've seen numerous times throughout Super that he never goes all out from the beginning. Jiren, Toppo, Frieza, Goku Black, BEERUS. Instead of going to his top forms at the beginning and using all his strength to take out a threat, he starts with his lower form to test them out, even though each of them could possibly have power that could one shot. If that doesn't show how detrimental Goku's mindset is to winning this fight, then I don't know what does.
5. See above. If Goku were smart, he would've known that staying out of Hit's timeskip range and away from his weak point attacks is the best way to win.
6. Rational logic? How is he supposed to know Jirens power > time? This was their first real fight. Never forget that he's smart enough to use his hax from the get go. U6 vs U7 he used time skip at the beginning of fights numerous times. Second battle with Goku: used intangibility and flash fist right from the getgo instead of duking it out up close (like Goku did). Tournament of Power: uses time skip on robot dude to break his arms and render him useless right away. Was gonna use time slip on Dyspo right away, but was intercepted. Adapts and overpowers him. Uses ranged attacks against string guy instead of charging through like a madman. Used hax on Jiren right away, was stomped due Jiren > Hit.
Hit WILL use his hax right from the getgo.
1. String guy still snuck up on Hit who was distracted. Not implying Hit = Jiren. I've made it a point that basically no one in the tournament = Jiren (barring UI Goku). I'm saying Hit does a better job at adapting to stronger/faster opponents, like how he adapted to suppressed Jiren and landed a blow
2. You've repeatedly stated that Goku made Jiren dodge/block/grunt/etc. I'm just working with what you give me. Never stated that Hit can adapt to anything, made it a point in my list that his adaptation has limits. But seeing as he's adapted to a x10 difference in power in the past just by getting beaten up a little, using his intangibility + improvement to hang in there isn't impossible.
3. I watched the same fight you did. Hit directly adapted to his speed. Goku couldn't even react fast enough to activate Instant Transmission. Hit reacted fast enough to active intangibility.
4. All the other opponents he beat cause he was stronger than them. He could've beaten those 3 even quicker if he had gone for the kill immediately. We've seen numerous times throughout Super that he never goes all out from the beginning. Jiren, Toppo, Frieza, Goku Black, BEERUS. Instead of going to his top forms at the beginning and using all his strength to take out a threat, he starts with his lower form to test them out, even though each of them could possibly have power that could one shot. If that doesn't show how detrimental Goku's mindset is to winning this fight, then I don't know what does.
5. See above. If Goku were smart, he would've known that staying out of Hit's timeskip range and away from his weak point attacks is the best way to win.
6. Rational logic? How is he supposed to know Jirens power > time? This was their first real fight. Never forget that he's smart enough to use his hax from the get go. U6 vs U7 he used time skip at the beginning of fights numerous times. Second battle with Goku: used intangibility and flash fist right from the getgo instead of duking it out up close (like Goku did). Tournament of Power: uses time skip on robot dude to break his arms and render him useless right away. Was gonna use time slip on Dyspo right away, but was intercepted. Adapts and overpowers him. Uses ranged attacks against string guy instead of charging through like a madman. Used hax on Jiren right away, was stomped due Jiren > Hit.
Hit WILL use his hax right from the getgo.
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Hit has this in bag.
If his assassin techniques, improvement and time skip weren't enough bad news for Goku, his time lock is even more haxxed given it made Jiren more serious than his fight with pre UI Goku.
If his assassin techniques, improvement and time skip weren't enough bad news for Goku, his time lock is even more haxxed given it made Jiren more serious than his fight with pre UI Goku.
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1. That still means Kunshi could reach Hit before Hit could strike Dyspo. He didn't adapt to Jiren, he simply attacked earlier than normal, hence "memorizing his counters". This is so obvious yet you keep ignoring it.
2. What I said was statistically speaking, Goku was the better fighter that went up against Jiren.
3. An ability that you don't need to move for > an ability that requires motion. That doesn't mean Goku didn't react to Dyspo, which is false, as we can tell from his facial expression when Dyspo sped up.
4. "Jiren, Toppo, Frieza, Goku Black, BEERUS."
1. Was testing his abilities
2. Was conserving energy, proceeded to stomp once he transformed
3. Stomped Frieza in base, used full power SSB and got beat out by Golden Frieza until later events
4. Used full power and got stomped (multiple times)
5. Was discovering more limits of SSG as the fight continued.
"Hit will use his hax from the getgo" And? He didn't win his fight with Goku by his own power, Goku's kaioken needed work. The second fight, Champa stated hit was at his best , while Goku wasn't, and it ended in a stalemate. Goku has seen and countered all of Hit's hax except for time cage, so what makes you think of all the times they fought, that Hit will magically destroy Goku this time?
2. What I said was statistically speaking, Goku was the better fighter that went up against Jiren.
3. An ability that you don't need to move for > an ability that requires motion. That doesn't mean Goku didn't react to Dyspo, which is false, as we can tell from his facial expression when Dyspo sped up.
4. "Jiren, Toppo, Frieza, Goku Black, BEERUS."
1. Was testing his abilities
2. Was conserving energy, proceeded to stomp once he transformed
3. Stomped Frieza in base, used full power SSB and got beat out by Golden Frieza until later events
4. Used full power and got stomped (multiple times)
5. Was discovering more limits of SSG as the fight continued.
"Hit will use his hax from the getgo" And? He didn't win his fight with Goku by his own power, Goku's kaioken needed work. The second fight, Champa stated hit was at his best , while Goku wasn't, and it ended in a stalemate. Goku has seen and countered all of Hit's hax except for time cage, so what makes you think of all the times they fought, that Hit will magically destroy Goku this time?
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This picture was needed at the start of this thread.
Anyways, grace period, so I dont know why one would keep on debating when Hit has already won, even if you disagree with the result.
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Because 90% of the Hit votes are based on faulty reasoning
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The reasoning was actually explained thoroughly by PTSOXMONKEY99 and others have given other reasoning such as Time Lock and such. There are plenty of reasons and opinions. And even then, the discussion got to quite low points, such as Kunshi hitting Dyspo, did Hit adapt against Dyspo or not, does Goku begin the fight slowly and would he do that against Hit (which is actually likely) and it certainly isn't going anywhere. If you wish to keep on going, do so, but its futile, really. This isn't going anywhere and results are results. This reminds me of Yamcha vs Saitama, actually.
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@Anderson m8... this is Goku we're talking about. He'll find a way
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He'll find a way to screw this up, certainly. Goku always finds a way. Goku cant beat any main villain without immense help, he will certainly find a way to, I dunno, LET HIT KILL HIM INSTANTLY.
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i mean I voted Hit so yea... I agree xD
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1. To memorize a counter there still needs to be movement involved. The string guy thing can be chalked up to PIS.
2. Then why go into detail about how he made Jiren dodge/block grunt?
3.
1. Jiren (?): Why rest your abilities against a guy you KNOW is stronger than you? He saw Jiren one shot Berserk Kale, who stomped him in SSB form. Why risk starting in base? The smart thing to do would've been going SSB X20 KK from the beginning.
2. Toppo (?): Hid did not stomp after going SSB. He only managed to rip his shirt. He needed to use KK to make Toppo serious.
3. Frieza: Could've one shoted Full Power Frieza if he went all out from the beginning, instead he let Frieza go golden, beat him up, tried to talk him down, got snuck up on, needed Vegeta to save him, Frieza blew up the planet and killed Vegeta, and needed Whis to help him out. All of that could have been avoided had Goku when SSB right away and killed Frieza like Vegeta did to Ginyu. But he didn't, and he won't.
4. Black (?) I'm talking about their first encounter. Where he thought it a good idea to fight him in SSJ. When he could've one shorted him with any of his higher form, and save himself from experiencing all the drama his team faced down the road.
4 Beerus: Talking about their first encounter on King Kai's planet. Where he tried to fight him in SSJ, and only moved up through the forms when he realized he wasn't doing anything.
The point is, Goku doesn't start serious.
Because all Hit has to do is time intangibility, which Goku has no counter to, and time flash fist crush, and one shot. And when he does get knocked around, it'll be the same as in U6 vs U7. His power will adapt to the opponents. He got knocked around by Goku last time, when he was x10 more powerful, and he still managed to not only improve, but get back up and use time skip on an opponent who had just broken out of one. If he can't adapt, then he'll memorize his movements and adjust accordingly. Also, Cage of Time.
2. Then why go into detail about how he made Jiren dodge/block grunt?
3.
1. Jiren (?): Why rest your abilities against a guy you KNOW is stronger than you? He saw Jiren one shot Berserk Kale, who stomped him in SSB form. Why risk starting in base? The smart thing to do would've been going SSB X20 KK from the beginning.
2. Toppo (?): Hid did not stomp after going SSB. He only managed to rip his shirt. He needed to use KK to make Toppo serious.
3. Frieza: Could've one shoted Full Power Frieza if he went all out from the beginning, instead he let Frieza go golden, beat him up, tried to talk him down, got snuck up on, needed Vegeta to save him, Frieza blew up the planet and killed Vegeta, and needed Whis to help him out. All of that could have been avoided had Goku when SSB right away and killed Frieza like Vegeta did to Ginyu. But he didn't, and he won't.
4. Black (?) I'm talking about their first encounter. Where he thought it a good idea to fight him in SSJ. When he could've one shorted him with any of his higher form, and save himself from experiencing all the drama his team faced down the road.
4 Beerus: Talking about their first encounter on King Kai's planet. Where he tried to fight him in SSJ, and only moved up through the forms when he realized he wasn't doing anything.
The point is, Goku doesn't start serious.
Because all Hit has to do is time intangibility, which Goku has no counter to, and time flash fist crush, and one shot. And when he does get knocked around, it'll be the same as in U6 vs U7. His power will adapt to the opponents. He got knocked around by Goku last time, when he was x10 more powerful, and he still managed to not only improve, but get back up and use time skip on an opponent who had just broken out of one. If he can't adapt, then he'll memorize his movements and adjust accordingly. Also, Cage of Time.
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Faulty votes:
"Hit via time-locker"
Implying this isn't Hit's trump card, and something he wouldn't need preparation to land (or something he just easily lands because lol Hit).
"Hit killed Goku"
And? He came back and stalemated Hit who was at his best without full power.
"he can just wreck him with his assassination and time-based techniques."
Which Goku consistently countered since his first fight, moreso in his last fight.
"Specifically "has thousands of year of experience and has shown that he is willing to go for the kill immediately, as compared to Goku who will let his opponent go full power, and will even heal them so he can get a good fight.""
Except this was debunked. The only people Goku healed were Frieza, at which point Goku could've stomped him 9 ways from Sunday regardless, and Cell via a senzu bean, who Goku did not fight. Goku fought Beerus who has close to 100 million years of experience, and Goku already countered Hit's killing moves.
"Hit since he has improved his Time Leap ability and only the likes of Jiren can counter."
You seriously counted this as a vote, just letting you know.
"Just one punch is all he needs to stop Goku."
Also debunked, Goku has countered every one of Hit's abilities and saw his trump card.
Champa stated Hit was at his best when they last fought, versus Goku who wasn't at full power. So I'm not seeing how suddenly Hit stomps even though Goku has the stat advantage and can counter his abilities. You can argue Jiren had the stat advantage as well, but he was purely defensive, as is his style, but that's not Goku's. When Jiren started following up, Hit got stomped horribly.
People are also using irrelevant fights when Goku fought Hit twice and did none of what they mentioned.
You also accepted Jman's statement who was making an argument for Hit, but didn't exactly vote for him.
"Hit via time-locker"
Implying this isn't Hit's trump card, and something he wouldn't need preparation to land (or something he just easily lands because lol Hit).
"Hit killed Goku"
And? He came back and stalemated Hit who was at his best without full power.
"he can just wreck him with his assassination and time-based techniques."
Which Goku consistently countered since his first fight, moreso in his last fight.
"Specifically "has thousands of year of experience and has shown that he is willing to go for the kill immediately, as compared to Goku who will let his opponent go full power, and will even heal them so he can get a good fight.""
Except this was debunked. The only people Goku healed were Frieza, at which point Goku could've stomped him 9 ways from Sunday regardless, and Cell via a senzu bean, who Goku did not fight. Goku fought Beerus who has close to 100 million years of experience, and Goku already countered Hit's killing moves.
"Hit since he has improved his Time Leap ability and only the likes of Jiren can counter."
You seriously counted this as a vote, just letting you know.
"Just one punch is all he needs to stop Goku."
Also debunked, Goku has countered every one of Hit's abilities and saw his trump card.
Champa stated Hit was at his best when they last fought, versus Goku who wasn't at full power. So I'm not seeing how suddenly Hit stomps even though Goku has the stat advantage and can counter his abilities. You can argue Jiren had the stat advantage as well, but he was purely defensive, as is his style, but that's not Goku's. When Jiren started following up, Hit got stomped horribly.
People are also using irrelevant fights when Goku fought Hit twice and did none of what they mentioned.
You also accepted Jman's statement who was making an argument for Hit, but didn't exactly vote for him.
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"Because all Hit has to do is time intangibility, which Goku has no counter to, and time flash fist crush, and one shot. And when he does get knocked around, it'll be the same as in U6 vs U7. His power will adapt to the opponents."
Hit can't attack while intangible, which Goku figured out, and is shown on-screen. He's literally countered the next two abilities you listed multiple times. Adaptation abuse.
The rest is irrelevant to this fight.
Hit can't attack while intangible, which Goku figured out, and is shown on-screen. He's literally countered the next two abilities you listed multiple times. Adaptation abuse.
The rest is irrelevant to this fight.
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I vote goku ffor Rices reasoning
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The Rice does seem to make some rather interesting reasons and I'm leaning more towards his reasons against these ningens Hit and the analysis he made of how each fared against Jiren does seem convincing...
Hmmm... Well, count my vote for Goku via the reasons provided by Rice for now.
Hmmm... Well, count my vote for Goku via the reasons provided by Rice for now.
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Can still use intangibility to dodge attacks. And it's not abuse. Hit has shown that he can adapt to resistances. He's done so in the past.
Whatever you say.
Whatever you say.
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Hit - 10
Goku - 6
Goku - 6
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Hit won't be spamming intangibility in character. He used it sparingly on Goku, sparingly in his Dyspo fight (once), and 0 times against Jiren.
As far as adapting goes, it depends on the context. Toppo said Hit was adapting to Dyspo's speed, taking blows on purpose and avoiding vitals. This was to get Dyspo to throw himself off of the ring, which failed. If Hit truly adapted to Dyspo's speed, what's the point of having to lure him and fake him out in if you've already adapted to him? Hit should be able to beat him speed vs speed without any tricks. Hit said Jiren completely adapted to his time skip, but it's more likely to suggest Hit was just vastly outclassed and it didn't work, rather than Jiren having reactive evolution.
As far as adapting goes, it depends on the context. Toppo said Hit was adapting to Dyspo's speed, taking blows on purpose and avoiding vitals. This was to get Dyspo to throw himself off of the ring, which failed. If Hit truly adapted to Dyspo's speed, what's the point of having to lure him and fake him out in if you've already adapted to him? Hit should be able to beat him speed vs speed without any tricks. Hit said Jiren completely adapted to his time skip, but it's more likely to suggest Hit was just vastly outclassed and it didn't work, rather than Jiren having reactive evolution.
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Stop enough with the downplaying.Unite My Rice said:
He can't attack while intangible? What series are you even watching?
Code:
Naruto?First few seconds
Goku: You can't attack while staying there (intangible form). That's why you come back here when attacking. I aimed for that moment.
Hit: (smiling) it's not like I can't attack.
Proceeds to attack Goku while intangible.
So yeah Hit can attack and kill Goku while intangible and Goku can't do jackshit about it
My vote Hit is even more confirmed due him able to kill Goku while being intangible.
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He did use it against Jiren. He dodged a blow bwith it. Used it plenty of times in his second encounter against Goku.
It was shown that Hit was only letting himself get tagged in non-vital areas. This is coming from Toppo, one of the top Pride Troopers. I don't know why you're trying to deny this. Him using tricks is called being strategic. Not every fight has to be won via raw strength. Why waste all your effort on one opponent when there are dozens of other people you need to fight?
Of course Hit was outclassed. Jiren is low 2C. His power will always be one degree of infinite above his. If Hit has adapted fully, that would've put his improvement at risk of being in the "no limits" zone. But against someone on a similar level to him? He should be able to adapt, he's done so in the past. He did so in the tournament.
It was shown that Hit was only letting himself get tagged in non-vital areas. This is coming from Toppo, one of the top Pride Troopers. I don't know why you're trying to deny this. Him using tricks is called being strategic. Not every fight has to be won via raw strength. Why waste all your effort on one opponent when there are dozens of other people you need to fight?
Of course Hit was outclassed. Jiren is low 2C. His power will always be one degree of infinite above his. If Hit has adapted fully, that would've put his improvement at risk of being in the "no limits" zone. But against someone on a similar level to him? He should be able to adapt, he's done so in the past. He did so in the tournament.
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>It's not that I can't attack while intangible
-proceeds to become tangible as soon as he goes to attack - (note the intangibility glow is gone)
Where was Hit doing that in his other fights? I'll wait. :^)
-proceeds to become tangible as soon as he goes to attack - (note the intangibility glow is gone)
Where was Hit doing that in his other fights? I'll wait. :^)
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