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Spider-Man vs Izuku Midoriya 11-9-0

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1. Again provide proof that he relies on spider sense now against Mysterio it was his only option and involved him blind folding himself and completely focusing on spider sense

2. Winter Soldier and Falcon were far weaker than Peter and went into the fight not knowing anything about him while all he had to do was realise Bucky is strong and Falcon can fly, Mysterio uses drones and illusions I don't think that compares to Matter Manipulation and geokinesis or intangibility that's similar to teleportation

3. Deku has pseudo flight as I've said and we've seen Deku utterly outclass someone who moves in a similar fashion to Spider-Man and he could even beat Gentle who could move through the air by bouncing on his barriers
 
1. The Mysterio fight is proof. If he just mastered a really good power, it would be completely out of character for him not to use it. Also, we're given plenty of proof that he can't exactly turn it iff either. Why would he use something that's passively active?

2. Cap scales equally to Bucky though and he beat Peter. Skill still played a role, it's not like he AP stomped them. Also, people like Thanos and Obsidian exist. Peter's survived fights against tier 6 characters by not getting hit.

3. Bouncing isn't Web-Slinging. Pseudo-flight isn't web-slinging. Spider-man stil has better air control. Not to mention he's beaten people with actual flight.
 
1. He still had to put all his focus on it to get it working in that manner so he gets warned about surprise attacks even if it were passive it doesn't predict people's exact actions

2. Peter didn't out skill Bucky at any point he caught his punch, threw something at him, then kicked and webbed him. He got tagged by Cull twice and got tagged by Thanos

3. Never said any of what Deku does is web slinging even though he could likely replicate it, Spider-Man doesn't have better air control vs someone who can ping pong off of objects, can fly and swing around
 
2. None if that required outskilling him how exactly? You have be pretty skilled to catch a punch. Plus, he was fighting two Captain America level people at once. Saying Peter's success was entirely because of him being stronger would be like saying the same thing about Deku. It completely ignores everything else about the fight. Weren't said tags just him getting thrown? They never directly managed to squash him or anything.

3. Only, Peter can do all of those things with his own Web-Slinging and Acrobatics. Hell, just watch the fight at the end of Far From Home.
 
Ok so

Deku at 20% can fly, wall jump at high speeds and is compared to people that can actually fly, can swing around, has displayed greater skill in analysing his opponents and using that analysis to gain an edge, has formal training and can oneshot a character who is over 3.19 tons and somehow vaguely over 2.39 ton Spider-Man is winning
 
Both are comparable to and have ways of effectively flying, Peter has powers Deku can't know about "Spider-Sense" and hence, can't analyze, and Peter hasn't beaten people both more trained and stronger than him.
 
The Wright Way said:
2. None if that required outskilling him how exactly? You have be pretty skilled to catch a punch. Plus, he was fighting two Captain America level people at once. Saying Peter's success was entirely because of him being stronger would be like saying the same thing about Deku. It completely ignores everything else about the fight. Weren't said tags just him getting thrown? They never directly managed to squash him or anything.

3. Only, Peter can do all of those things with his own Web-Slinging and Acrobatics. Hell, just watch the fight at the end of Far From Home.
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So peter caught a punch, threw something at him and kicked him the webbed him and that somehow relies on skill really? The fact that he got caught shows he couldn't avoid them continuously Cull even caught him twice

Deku has displayed acrobatic skill and is compared to Bakugo who can straight up fly you can just go check Deku vs Kacchan 2 to see Bakugo's movements and Deku has improved beyond that
 
Bruh. Spider-Man fought trained martial artists like Bucky Barnes and Captain America. He has plenty of skill, FFH proves it even further with plenty of acrobatics and martial arts against the elementals and Mysterio

Look again, he fought cap
 
1. The fact that he managed to do any of that to a guy like Bucky at all? Yes. Yes, it does.

2. And Spider-man is also comparable to people who can flat out fly. He's even fought hundreds of flying enemies at once before.
 
1. He caught Bucky's punch that's reaction time and strength, he threw something at Bucky that's also reaction time and strength, he swung into Bucky and kicked him while he was running then webbed him while he was down. None of that is him out skilling Bucky and if he could out skill Bucky why did Cap kick his but so hard

2. Drones that just fly and shoot and don't pull off any acrobatic manoeuvres whatsoever
 
All those Drones in that tiny ass corridor isn't impressive? He couldn't see or hear them, he only just figured out how to use the Spider-Sense.
 
1. While also fighting Falcon. The fight was a two on one and Peter won. That takes a certain level of skill.

2. Drones that fly, shoot, create illusions, and swarm in droves of hundreds.
 
Spider-Man's method of agility and movement is nothing new to Deku, please take a look at Sero. I severely doubt he can catch him off guard or out perform him in any way mobility wise. Also don't disregard Gentle Criminal. Gentle's movement abilities outclass Peter's by a long shot, they don't need to be 1-1 in order to compare or judge which ones are better. Gentle could make precise movements and applications of his quirk such that he became completely untraceable, all at the drop of a hat, with ridiculously high battlefield control and precision, but Deku could predict and match him due to his high battle intelligence and analyzing. Spider-Man just web swinging towards Deku and jumping around is not enough to out maneuver him. Gentle could bounce off the air itself not just objects, his level of air control was insane.

Deku himself has dodged literally dozens of projectiles while mid air with no footing easily (without precog to help him). He trickshot reversaled Shinsou in midair and tied him up in his own weapon like it was nothing, right after getting blasted in the face. He correctly memorized and used Gentle's own air barriers against him by bouncing on, predicting, and abusing their positioning after only having fought Gentle for like 4 minutes.

Deku's air movement is comparable to Spider-Man's at least, I would appreciate any evidence that it isn't.

8% Deku has an AP and dura advantage over spider man btw. 20% Deku is almost shrugging off Spidey's blows, and if he runs out of 20%, his pain tolerance lets him keep fighting for hours on end, something Peter can't keep up with.

The best argument for Peter winning is the spider sense but he doesn't rely on it as much as some people are claiming he does in actual combat. Against Mysterio, the circumstances were clearly very different than they would be in a 1v1 fight. Peter had to actively focus solely on his spider sense ability due to Mysterios trickery and illusions, I severely doubt he's capable of insta predicting every single attack his opponent is capable of while they're bouncing all over the place with as good agility as him. Maybe if he gets pushed into a corner in the fight he could replicate that same level of pre cog.

The spider sense would need to consistently work perfectly basically every time Deku attacks in order for Peter to inflict any damage, and can we all not forget that's Deku himself is an analysis based fighter? He would analyze Spider-Man's entire move pool in the first minute of the fight, other than spidey sense, and come up with strategies to overcome him, it's not like Deku is fresh off the block, he's been fighting and figuring out super powered enemies for nearly a year straight.

Spider sense is a win con, but it's unreliable as hell unless Peter focuses hard, and even then he would have to beat Deku in the instance he does that otherwise he gets beat up the second he loses concentration. Deku can't predict spider sense tho, so it is indeed a win condition.

Spider man has not out skilled a single person that would be impressive compared to how Deku outskilled Gentle. He didn't out skill Bucky or Cap or Falcon or Thanos or Cull, so don't count them when thinking about that last statement I made. The best he's done is catch people more skilled than him off guard with how annoying he can be to fight against first time. His best skill feats were with spidey sense again Mysterio, every other instance he's fought a skilled fighter, they're either hilariously weaker than him or surprised at his existence cutting into a fight they were having with someone else,

Lmao at catching someone's punch being a skill feat when it was incredibly telegraphed and Spidey had the drop on him and Falcon. Skill had no play in that confrontation, it was spider man tossing them around because he's ridiculously stronger than both of them.

> Falcon being captain America level in skill

Deku has AP, Dura, Stamina, Combat Experience, and more reliable ranged attacks. At a cost, he's in discomfort for being at 20%.

Peter has Precognition, Intellect and isn't in constant pain.

How does he even start on beating Deku without spidey sense? Webs get dodged, airblasted or used against him, his attacks get dodged and countered, and he can't play keep away forever against someone with comparable mobility. Spidey sense is literally his win condition, but it's unpredictable and unreliable unless he focuses.
 
No, much of the fight was Spidey out manuvering a double team of Bucky and Falcon, it wasn't based on skill besides the metal arm part

Spidey outskilled Bucky, Giant Man, Vulture, and Falcon, the reason why he didn't to Thanos was because they are far stronger than him
 
He did not outskills any of the people you just mentioned. He started the Bucky and Falcon fight literally drop kicking Falcon and then catching Bucky's arm. He then proceeded to literally just toss the two of them around, easily handling all of their attacks, because nothing they could do would phase him. He's stronger than them, not more skilled.

Outskilling Giant Man is not a feat, the dude is like the easiest person to outskill in his giant form.

Vulture beat the ever living daylights out of Spider-Man in every single confrontation they had.
 
The Wright Way said:
1. While also fighting Falcon. The fight was a two on one and Peter won. That takes a certain level of skill.

2. Drones that fly, shoot, create illusions, and swarm in droves of hundreds.
Click to expand...
Both of them are far below him and most of the fight was him jumping around and spamming webs

Drones that weren't creating illusions when he fought them on the bridge and didn't even swarm from multiple directions they just chased him
 
I just rewatched Spidey vs Bucky and Falcon.

How on earth are you guys claiming that was skill.

Falcon was kicking and tackling Peter all over the place the whole fight until he moved and webbed his pack. Bucky didn't even do anything other than throw a punch and toss a sign.

That wasn't even Spidey over powering them for the most part, he just spammed webs, dodged like 2 attacks and they lost.
 
@Knight that puts them in par in the air then. Spidey had to deal with thousands of fire shooting, illusion creating drones, in tight corriders even at one point.

If Bucky was hilariously weaker, than Cap shouldn't have been able to hurt Spidey hardly at all. Spidey's feat over him is lifting strength based anyways.

Here's the thing. When Deku starts bouncing around, why wouldn't Peter start to focus? Deku has no way of knowing Spider-Sense is even a thing, so he can't analyze and counter it.
 
Yeah Bucky was hilariously weaker in lifting strength the inky way he attempted to contest Spider-Man up close.

Why would Peter's immediate reaction to seeing someone come at him to close his eyes and hyper focus on spider sense? Even then if his mobility is greater than Deku's he'd still get caught as Cull a far less mobile opponent proved and Deku has proven he could do against Gentle
 
Yes, being stronger than someone means your muscles automatically move out of the way of hits from someone comparable to you in speed and skilled enough to trash or match someone else also comparable in speed that is a complete melee skill combat monster.

And Pete ended up more or less wrecking Vulture near the end when he properly got his confidence in. You fail to mention anything Deku could do comparable to easily side stepping and destroying multiple attacking, invisible drones in cloaked in hyper realistic illusions inside of a small corridor without any difficulty. So no, not convinced.
 
Glad we can agree their mobility is at least equal.

Peter dealt with 6 drones in that tight corridor max, don't overplay how many drones he could keep up with. He was running for his life and getting shot up and down the street, don't pretend Peter was doing perfectly fine against those drones.

You're right, Bucky didn't even do enough to warrant Spidey being stronger than him. Threw a punch and tossed a sign.

Peter would have to focus specifically on his spidey sense activating flawlessly, similarly to how he did against Mysterio, not just focus in general. Also he'd have to keep it up for a very long time. Deku having some fancy bouncing movement is not enough for Spidey to activate his "oh shit can't keep up help me spider gods" mode, speed is equal, Peter can react, he just gets outskilled in cqc.
 
All of Peter's good skill feats were with spider sense. He has no good feats that put him on par with Deku in terms of skill without that ability. So he loses unless he focuses, and even that isn't a guaranteed win since he can't do it forever.
 
Except, again, he really needed no focus, he just needed to trust it and not use his eyes. Again, he used it easily enough against Mysterio's last attack with eyes open.

I call it Skill that Bucky couldn't do anything, when Cap obviously could when he had a chance despite Bucky being explicitly comparable in everything, besides being stronger with his metal arm.
 
I know his spider sense doesn't need to be focused, but that was literally the most basic application of it: helping him against stealth attacks. Deku is not going to stealth attack, so the most spider sense can help is letting him dodge some air blasts or kicks.

Also, still a skill feat only for spider sense. Not seeing a lot of skill feats outside of this one ability that helps him keep up consistently with Deku for the hours they might be fighting for.
 
That's so incredibly dumb I am dumb founded. Is not sneak attacks, is about evading attacks in general. Peter had trouble with the drones even with way bigger amounts of space before, the moment he uses spider sense he side steps them with the greatest of eases. Heightened, omnidirectional reflexes aren't just "good for stealth".

You not believing they aren't is entirely inconsequential. I really can't care that you believing Bucky being unable to do anything is "just muscles".
 
Kingofwolves999 said:
Glad we can agree their mobility is at least equal.
Peter dealt with 6 drones in that tight corridor max, don't overplay how many drones he could keep up with. He was running for his life and getting shot up and down the street, don't pretend Peter was doing perfectly fine against those drones.

You're right, Bucky didn't even do enough to warrant Spidey being stronger than him. Threw a punch and tossed a sign.

Peter would have to focus specifically on his spidey sense activating flawlessly, similarly to how he did against Mysterio, not just focus in general. Also he'd have to keep it up for a very long time. Deku having some fancy bouncing movement is not enough for Spidey to activate his "oh shit can't keep up help me spider gods" mode, speed is equal, Peter can react, he just gets outskilled in cqc.
Click to expand...
He was doing perfectly fine in the final battle of FFH.

His spider-sense activates flawlessley and there is no such thing as it turning off.

It isn't just by closing his eyes
 
Peter literally gushes about Captain America and you can notice. Contrast and compare Bucky, who he doesn't really care for but he is curious about his arm. His glee and lack of experience was pretty obviously acting up with Cap.
 
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