Speed: Immeasurable by moving through time

[AKM sama]

"Characters that are able to move backwards and forwards through time by movement alone qualify for immeasurable speed. However, due to general inconsistencies, and the fact that several fictions grant this ability to any character able to move FTL, they may be assigned an additional, independent, speed rating for the ability."

This is what our Speed page says about Immeasurable speed ratings. However, it should be noted that:

1. As the note suggests, it is just another way of saying that "this character can travel through time via speed and stuff like this is inconsistent throughout all of fiction, so the speed is unquantifiable but we will mention it as a speed rating anyway just for the ability". The problem with that is, we already mention this as an ability in the "Power and Abilities" section. And if its speed is unquantifiable, why even mention it as speed?

2. Fiction doesn't treat most characters who can travel through time via speed, as suddenly possessing speed of other-worldly magnitude when they are doing it. They just have an ability to time travel by using their usual speed (which in most cases is MFTL+). It doesn't change their original speed.

3. Time travel, whether done by hax or speed, remains just that- an ability, and as such should only be mentioned in the "Powers and Abilities" section. If it's done by speed, we can just mention it as "Time Travel (via Speed)".

4. Mentioning it again in the "Speed" section and that too by slapping another rating which is completely meaningless in every way, is just redundant and takes up space. It doesn't fulfill any purpose whatsoever. It's like slapping AP or tier ratings like-

"Attack Potency: Planet level, Unquantifiable by shattering dimensions"

"Tier: 5-C, Unknow by shattering dimensions".


TLDR: We should get rid of Immeasurable speed ratings given to characters for travelling through time when in reality it's just an ability they can perform with their usual speed. It is completely meaningless, redundant, takes up space for no reason, fulfills no purpose and confuses our new, less experienced viewers into believing something that is totally not the case.

 

[Antvasima]

I suppose that you have a point, although it is probably best if you ask several other staff members to give input here, especially Matthew, Sera, and Azathoth.

I think that only some DC Comics characters have these ratings though, specifically a few Flash characters, and pre-Crisis Kryptonians.

 

[ZacharyGrossman273]

El Reverso

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

What if there is a dimesnional space where time, and the space within it is not consistent, constant, or liner....? There is no showing of time travel, but space and time within it are in flux constantly and distorted? We are even shown that the dimensional boundries are always being warped, bent, distorted and in flux. Then we are shown several characters moving through it...? what rating would that be if distance, and time is undefined and ever changing, but the characters successfully reached the location they wanted/needed go and traversed this realm..?

 

[ShadowWarrior1999]

The reason this qualifies for immeasurable speed is because being able to travel through time with speed alone is movement beyond linear time. Granted it may not be combat applicable hence the separate speed rating.

 

[ED_INFINITUM]

This wiki is too damn liberal with tweaking standards,something that's solid one minute is irrelevant the next.

 

[DMB_1]

The reason this qualifies for immeasurable speed is because being able to travel through time with speed alone is movement beyond linear time. Granted it may not be combat applicable hence the separate speed rating.

What the Op is saying is that traveling in time through sheer speed/ movement should just be a consequence of Immeasurable speed, not something that should grant you that.

In fiction, many characters can travel through time via speed, but usually, it's due to either unquantifiable levels of speed (which don't make you completely transcend linear time or anything), or just the Speed of Light.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, I personally do not think that a separate speed rating for the Flash characters and pre-Crisis Kryptonians seems to cause any harm.

 

[Wokistan]

I don't think that it should be a separate thing for characters who already have a normal speed. That should be listed as time travel.

However, moving through time with movement in general seems like a fine justification to me. Seems more like a consistency issue than anything else.

 

[AKM sama]

What the Op is saying is that traveling in time through sheer speed/ movement should just be a consequence of Immeasurable speed, not something that should grant you that.

In fiction, many characters can travel through time via speed, but usually, it's due to either unquantifiable levels of speed (which don't make you completely transcend linear time or anything), or just the Speed of Light.

100% this.

@Ant It's completely meaningless, redundant, takes up space for no reason, fulfills no purpose and confuses our new, less experienced viewers into believing something that is totally not the case. We are not gonna slap an "Unknow" or "Unquantifiable" Tier and AP ratings for every character just because it doesn't cause any harm.

I'll ask the staff members to comment here.

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

Something i am confused about... Is "Immeasurable speed" being removed completely... or is it staying but stricter when something gets tiered..?

 

[AKM sama]

No. I'm just saying that characters who can time travel with speed should not get "Immeasurable" rating. Time travel is just an ability whether done by hax or speed. In this case, characters can time travel by using their usual speed, so a separate speed rating is not necessary when you can just mention it in their "Powers and Abilities" section.

 

[Antvasima]

@AKM

Okay. I am fine with what the staff decide.

 

[Andytrenom]

I agree

 

[AKM sama]

Cal also agrees with me that the anywhere and anywhen is a byproduct of Immeasurable speed, not a reason to have it.

Regardless, I have asked other staff members for more input.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Thanks.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Depends on how the time travel is done.

If it is done by literally moving than yeah, it should be immeasurable. The question is if it's applicable to other movement.

 

[AKM sama]

For most cases, it's unquantifiable (cannot be measured) because it is just treated as an ability characters have which can be achieved by their usual speed (which can be any amount greater than FTL). I have also mentioned several problems related to ratings like this. We don't give ratings like this for Tier and AP, why should speed be any different?

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

It should be a case-by-case analysis.

There's a boss in Bloodstained who runs so fast he collides with himself in the future. That's a blatant example of immeasurable speed via running, as he is literally outpacing time with his speed.

There's a technique in Elder Scrolls which allows you to cut your enemy before you even draw the blade from the scabbard and swing it. That's also immeasurable, or at least causality manipulation weaponized.

Flash time travels via reaching a certain speed but he needs special conditions and usually a lot of acceleration for it so it doesn't scale to his normal speed.

 

[Antvasima]

I think that Matthew makes sense.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

I'm somewhat on both sides for this. I did say that time travel is a byproduct of Immeasurable speed rather than a reason it, and I do stick to it. I feel like things Matt listed are more exceptions than a reason for a case by case. And yes, I do find them Immeasurable, or at least causality screwery for the second one. For the most part, time travel is seen as its own ability, even if it's granted through speed. Through things like moving so fast that they break the time barrier, or slip between time, rather than moving so fast that they're above causality and time.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Powerful dragons in Elder Scrolls can also literally fly through time and travel through it. That's also an example of Immeasurable movement I think.

 

[AKM sama]

Actually in most cases, it is just treated as an ability that can be performed by the character's usual speed. For example, take Superman. How many times has it been stated that he travelled in time just by going thousands of times FTL? In cases like that, the character doesn't need an extra speed rating when his true speed remains what it is. It just means he has an ability where he can utilize his existing speed to travel in time. Same for Flash, he just has to go to a higher degree of MFTL+ to travel in time.

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

I get very mixed feelings about this

 

[AKM sama]

Bump

 

[Setsuna_tenma]

It should be a case-by-case analysis.
There's a boss in Bloodstained who runs so fast he collides with himself in the future. That's a blatant example of immeasurable speed via running, as he is literally outpacing time with his speed.

There's a technique in Elder Scrolls which allows you to cut your enemy before you even draw the blade from the scabbard and swing it. That's also immeasurable, or at least causality manipulation weaponized.

Flash time travels via reaching a certain speed but he needs special conditions and usually a lot of acceleration for it so it doesn't scale to his normal speed.

which technique?

 

[Antvasima]

I am still fine with Matthew's conclusion of case-by-case analysis.