Speed downgrade: PC Superman and SBP

[Hellformer]

This thread focuses on downgrading speed tiers of two alternative versions of supermen due to their current reasoning being bad-
1) Pre-Crisis Superman:
So basically this version of superman has immeasurable speed rating for breaking the boundaries of space and time but the scan also says that
"Until he surpasses the speed of light itself"
Which should be consistent from this scan where it says that
"Swifter than the speed of light, swifter than time itself. The Man of tomorrow streaks through the barriers of space and time"
So this makes it consistent that Clark does this via FTL time travel ability and not via sheer speed. And his breaking of the boundaries of space and time is also a by product of this ability which the 2nd scan contextualizes.

2) Superboy-Prime:
This version of Superman has immeasurable speed rating via existing beyond linear time which I don't need to explain how wrong and outdated it is.
Immeasurable speed: Movement unbound from the flow of linear time, which cannot be measured. Given that S = D/T, if T is undefined, the speed formula cannot be applied. This is the same reason why multiple temporal dimensions also grant immeasurable speed.

So overall both these characters do not have a suitable reasoning for having this speed tier hence should be downgraded to Massively FTL+

Agree: @DarkDragonMedeus
[B][COLOR=rgb(226, 80, 65)]Disagree[/COLOR]:
Neutral:[/B]

Tagging [USER=3910]@DarkDragonMedeus because he himself wanted this downgrade so his opinion would mean a lot to me.

 

[Jason_Courne]

So basically this version of superman has immeasurable speed rating for breaking the boundaries of space and time but the scan also says that
"Until he surpasses the speed of light itself"
Which should he consistent from this scan where it says that
"Swifter than the speed of light, swifter than time itself"
So this makes it consistent that Clark does this via FTL time travel ability and not via sheer speed.

That logic only applies if it's the straight logic of FTL = Time travel, but Superman explicitly needed to move faster than FTL speeds, and only then did he begin breaking space-time. And the latter also explicitly states Superman is moving faster than time

Once again, your logic only applies if Superman is explicitly time traveling by moving at FTL speed, when instead he's time traveling by moving faster than space-time itself

2) Superboy-Prime:
This version of Superman has immeasurable speed rating via existing beyond linear time which I don't need to explain how wrong and outdated it is.
Immeasurable speed: Movement unbound from the flow of linear time, which cannot be measured. Given that S = D/T, if T is undefined, the speed formula cannot be applied. This is the same reason why multiple temporal dimensions also grant immeasurable speed.

You just posted proof of why Superboy-Prime would have textbook immeasurable speed

 

[Hellformer]

That logic only applies if it's the straight logic of FTL = Time travel, but Superman explicitly needed to move faster than FTL speeds, and only then did he begin breaking space-time. And the latter also explicitly states Superman is moving faster than time

Read the 2nd scan carefully which contextualizes his time travel ability:
"Swifter than the speed of light, swifter than time itself, the man of tomorrow streaks through the barriers of space and time"
So Swifting SOL -> Swifting time -> Breaking boundaries of space and time
Hence its very obvious that he does this via FTL travel ability. Even shinra kusakabe does this and his speed is rated as FTL and so should Superman(MFTL+ due to better flight speed feats)

Once again, your logic only applies if Superman is explicitly time traveling by moving at FTL speed, when instead he's time traveling by moving faster than space-time itself

Read the context carefully which I've written above

You just posted proof of why Superboy-Prime would have textbook immeasurable speed

Existing beyond linear time is not Immeasurable speed. You need to travel beyond linear time through sheer movement. I'm open to him having Immeasurable Speed but this reasoning is bad and unless and until there isn't any other way to get him there, he should be downgraded to Massively FTL+

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Yeah, I did say that Pre-Crisis Superman simply has Time Travel and Dimensional Travel, it does not look like something that would scale to his combat speed and reactions by default. He may travel forward and backward in time by flying and breaking spatial barriers and temporal barriers, but I and AKM sama have argued simply running through time would still just be time travel if it does not scale to reflexes.

And in Superboy's case, he appears to just be omnipresent in that key, not Immeasurable.

 

[Hellformer]

Yeah, I did say that Pre-Crisis Superman simply has Time Travel and Dimensional Travel, it does not look like something that would scale to his combat speed and reactions by default. He may travel forward and backward in time by flying and breaking spatial barriers and temporal barriers, but I and AKM sama have argued simply running through time would still just be time travel if it does not scale to reflexes.

And in Superboy's case, he appears to just be omnipresent in that key, not Immeasurable.

So should I count it as agree?

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Yes

 

[Hellformer]

Yes

Thank you very much. If you don't mind can you tag some other admins who might agree with this downgrade?

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I believe @Antvasima and @Deagonx voiced agreements a while back.

 

[Hellformer]

I believe @Antvasima and @Deagonx voiced agreements a while back.

Thank you

 

[Antvasima]

I am uncertain in this case, but am leaning towards agreeing.

@Eficiente @Qawsedf234 @Firestorm808 @Elizio33 @Catzlaflame @Deagonx @ByAsura @Emirp sumitpo @IdiosyncraticLawyer @LordTracer @ProfectusInfinity @M3X_2.0 @Maverick_Zero_X @Dark-Carioca

What do you think about this?

 

[Jason_Courne]

Read the 2nd scan carefully which contextualizes his time travel ability:
"Swifter than the speed of light, swifter than time itself, the man of tomorrow streaks through the barriers of space and time"
So Swifting SOL -> Swifting time -> Breaking boundaries of space and time
Hence its very obvious that he does this via FTL travel ability. Even shinra kusakabe does this and his speed is rated as FTL and so should Superman(MFTL+ due to better flight speed feats)

Except it's not FTL travel -> Time Travel, it's FTL travel -> moving faster than time -> time traveling. He's not time traveling because of FTL speed, he's time traveling because he is moving faster than time, this is being explicitly stated by the writers

And the first feat explicitly separates FTL travel from Immeasurable speed travel

Existing beyond linear time is not Immeasurable speed. You need to travel beyond linear time through sheer movement. I'm open to him having Immeasurable Speed but this reasoning is bad and unless and until there isn't any other way to get him there, he should be downgraded to Massively FTL+

Existance beyond linear time falls under movement beyond linear time , that'd be like saying a person that physically transcends time moves slower than time

 

[Hellformer]

Except it's not FTL travel -> Time Travel, it's FTL travel -> moving faster than time -> time traveling. He's not time traveling because of FTL speed, he's time traveling because he is moving faster than time, this is being explicitly stated by the writers

Wait you're sorta conceding by writing FTL travel -> Faster than time hence proving it to be an ability instead of sheer speed. As said earlier, Shinra Kusakabe has same FTL rating because he travels through time via same ability.

And the first feat explicitly separates FTL travel from Immeasurable speed travel

No

Existance beyond linear time falls under movement beyond linear time , that'd be like saying a person that physically transcends time moves slower than time

I once tried arguing Immeasurable Speed for a different character using same logic and it got rejected. So no it does not mean Immeasurable speed unless and until there's an actual feat which matches the definition.

 

[Robo432343]

superboy travels to the revolution era through speed

 

[Hellformer]

superboy travels to the revolution era through speed

Can i get the comic issue to this? Wait isn't it SBP instead of PC Supes?

 

[Jason_Courne]

Wait you're sorta conceding by writing FTL travel -> Faster than time hence proving it to be an ability instead of sheer speed. As said earlier, Shinra Kusakabe has same FTL rating because he travels through time via same ability.

No, he goes from FTL to faster than time, that's why he can time travel. He isn't simply going FTL and time traveling, he still needs to go that extra-mile and explicitly move faster than time.

For Shinra it is explicitly stated moving FTL causes him to time travel, while Superman is explicitly stated to be moving faster than time, allowing him to time travel. Completely different scenarios

No

"With a speeed that all but beggars description, Superman flashes through the limitless darkness pushing himself harder, faster until he surpasses the speed of light itself! But he finds no sign of supergirl and so he presses on!"
It is obviously written, FTL travel wasn't enough, so Superman goes even faster. All you'd have to do is read more than a single fraction of a sentence

I once tried arguing Immeasurable Speed for a different character using same logic and it got rejected. So no it does not mean Immeasurable speed unless and until there's an actual feat which matches the definition.

Not really my problem, some verses have stronger oppositions, some have are treated more favorably. For example, Mundus being omnipresent within infinite space is treated as support for immeasurable DMC

 

[Robo432343]

disagree for reasons above

also the superboy immeasurable feat is from superboy#2 1949

 

[Hellformer]

No, he goes from FTL to faster than time, that's why he can time travel. He isn't simply going FTL and time traveling, he still needs to go that extra-mile and explicitly move faster than time.

Wait what? The 2nd scan verbatim states that swifting sol is swifting time.

For Shinra it is explicitly stated moving FTL causes him to time travel, while Superman is explicitly stated to be moving faster than time, allowing him to time travel. Completely different scenarios

And that faster than tie is a by product of FTL travel so I do not see any difference.

"With a speeed that all but beggars description, Superman flashes through the limitless darkness pushing himself harder, faster until he surpasses the speed of light itself! But he finds no sign of supergirl and so he presses on!"

Stop ignoring the 2nd scan which contextualizes that travel

It is obviously written, FTL travel wasn't enough, so Superman goes even faster. All you'd have to do is read more than a single fraction of a sentence

.....

Not really my problem, some verses have stronger oppositions, some have are treated more favorably. For example, Mundus being omnipresent within infinite space is treated as support for immeasurable DMC

And? You still have no explanation for why existing beyond linear time is immeasurable speed because there are a lot of characters on vsbw who have this existence but are not rated as immeasurable speed.

 

[Hellformer]

disagree for reasons above

also the superboy immeasurable feat is from superboy#2 1949

Alr I'll read it asap

 

[Hellformer]

disagree for reasons above

also the superboy immeasurable feat is from superboy#2 1949

Can you slide the link to this comic because I'm not able to find it?

 

[Hellformer]

But anyways superboy prime also belongs to pre crisis era so breaking the boundaries of space and time is done via FTL travel which is what PC superman does. More so the background showcases all colors ranging from red to violet which might signify him traveling FTL to do this?
I'd better concentrate on breaking/swifting/ripping through space-time is done via FTL travel in pre crisis era.

 

[Robo432343]

Wtf why are you assuming the superboy feat is FTL just because it’s pre crisis??? Nowhere in the scan does it even mention FTL
You clearly saw superboy travel to the past via sheer speed without any mentions of light speed stuff
You are grasping at straws here

 

[Hellformer]

Wtf why are you assuming the superboy feat is FTL just because it’s pre crisis??? Nowhere in the scan does it even mention FTL
You clearly saw superboy travel to the past via sheer speed without any mentions of light speed stuff
You are grasping at straws here

Because the pre-crisis era establishes breaking/swifting/ripping of space-time via FTL time travel ability. Though I'm sorta neutral about SBP and if he needs this rating then the reasoning should be changed as well. While about PC Supes it's 100% sure that it's a FTL time travel ability

 

[57Dev]

What about Superman breaking bonds of Infinity ?

 

[Robo432343]

Because the pre-crisis era establishes breaking/swifting/ripping of space-time via FTL time travel ability. Though I'm sorta neutral about SBP and if he needs this rating then the reasoning should be changed as well. While about PC Supes it's 100% sure that it's a FTL time travel ability

"I must find the answer...But the answer is in the past"
"Perhaps if i run fast enough, i can break through the dimensions of space and time and hurt myself into the past!"
"LIKE A BLUR OF COLOR, THE BOY OF STEEL RIPS THROUGH SPACE, AT SUPER-VELOCITY, RUNNING A RACE WITH TIME ITSELF"
You even saw visually that this happened
Superboy flew so far into the past, running a race with time itself

You cannot tell me the speed is FTL even after reading all this like what?? come on dude..
this is wild

 

[Hellformer]

"I must find the answer...But the answer is in the past"
"Perhaps if i run fast enough, i can break through the dimensions of space and time and hurt myself into the past!"
"LIKE A BLUR OF COLOR, THE BOY OF STEEL RIPS THROUGH SPACE, AT SUPER-VELOCITY, RUNNING A RACE WITH TIME ITSELF"
You even saw visually that this happened
Superboy flew so far into the past

You cannot tell me the speed is FTL even after reading all this like what?? come on dude..
this is wild

Read Superboy(1949)#3
The context of this comic is Superboy traveling to different points in time via FTL ability. And to remind you it's directly next to the comic issue which you shared. So my guess work was right

 

[Hellformer]

Atp I'm 100% sure that none of them have immeasurable speed. It's only a FTL time travel ability. So their speed must be downgraded to Massively FTL+

 

[Hellformer]

What about Superman breaking bonds of Infinity ?

Extremely vague and needs context whether he traveled an infinite distance or he did it via dimensional travel ability.

 

[Hellformer]

Need a 3rd admin vote to implement this thread.

 

[Jason_Courne]

I am just going to address this in one comment

The first feat is explicitly written as Superman goes FTL, then goes faster, and then breaks time. Meaning simple FTL speed wasn't enough to do anything

The second feat is literally just "Superman flies faster than light... he also flies faster than time", not FTL = Faster than time

The second feat comes from the 40s (rough estimate, I couldn't find any reference to what issue the scan is from, but the artstyle looks like that era), while the first one is from the 80s... a 4 decade difference

 

[Hellformer]

The second feat is literally just "Superman flies faster than light... he also flies faster than time", not FTL = Faster than time

Bros gonna keep ignoring the time travel being a by product of FTL travel.

 

[Jason_Courne]

Bros gonna keep ignoring the time travel being a by product of FTL travel.

Do you think it's impossible for the fact that Superman simply moved faster than faster than light? maybe that's why they say "Faster than light, faster than time!"

 

[Lord_Farquaad69420]

Disagree with pre crisis, there’s never stated to be a correlation that moving ftl is letting him move faster than time. It’s like saying “faster than sound, faster than light itself” me moving ftl isn’t cause I’m moving faster than sound. It’s just that my speed is above both sound and light. Superboy primes reasoning is stupid tho and should be removed

 

[Hellformer]

Do you think it's impossible for the fact that Superman simply moved faster than faster than light? maybe that's why they say "Faster than light, faster than time!"

It's your burden to prove that time travel isn't done simply by going FTL. I've already explained my part multiple times and you're going circular

 

[Robo432343]

superman should still have immeasurable speed
Superman tagged Professor Zoom and was stated to have speed who rivals his, and Professor Zoom ran to the 25th century can move through multiple temporal dimensions, was going to run to the past to change it during his fight with the Flash, and can freely move through the timestream. Superman reacts to Barry Allen and Wally West while they're running through time. Superman kept pace with Jay Garrick and Wally West while they were chasing the Reverse Flash to the past. Superman tied with Barry Allen in a race while holding back, tagged a fusion of Wally West and Barry Allen, and chased down and subdued Barry Allen. Wally West ran to the 853rd century, outran the Black Racer to the end of time and the universe until death no longer existed on a conceptual level, he ran back to his time through the timestream, he ran into the Speed Force and changed history, chased Professor Zoom throughout time alongside Barry Allen, accidentally ran a few weeks into the future alongside Barry Allen, raced himself a few moments into the future by running into the future, Wally outpaces light, raced on a four-dimensional track that weaves in an out of space-time to the extent where sometimes he's shielding his eyes from the Big Bang and sometimes he's squeezing through a pinprick as the universe implodes into nothing, outpaced instantaneous teleportation from the point of view of ultradimensional gamblers, utilises the source of the Speed Force to morph hyperdimensional gels while fighting a White Martian, and ran through time through the slipstream alongside Jay Garrick and Barry Allen. Superman flew back in time to the Big Bang when fighting Brainiac 13. Superman pushed through the barriers of space and time when fighting against the embodiment of his own Death. Superman chased Superboy into the future. Superman outpaced reality-blitzing missiles that were sterilising the continuum. Superman vibrates through to timestream to fly a man back in time. Superman can move fast enough to outrun temporal distortions in the past, present, and future. Superman should be relative to Superboy-Prime who was capable of momentarily outpacing Jenni Ognat when she was running through time. Superman flew into Hyperspace, which is a realm that exists beyond space and time. Post-Crisis Superman should be relative to Silver Age Superman, who flew back in time through the timestream until he flew through a timeless, placeless dimension, flew around Kryptonians until he whisked them into the timestream, flew into his past self colliding head-on to send themselves into separate points in time and then proceeded to fly into the 30th century, he tore through space and time with his speed before facing Jaxon, flew through the past one occasion with Batman, flew to 1971 to bring people some milk, spun faster than time to move into the past, crashes through the time barrier to take a man back to his time, bursted through the bounds of infinity, shattered the boundaries of space and time with his speed, hurls Jimmy Olsen through the timestream multiple times, streaks through the barriers of time and space, breaking through time-space to fly into the past, carries a bunch of people through time, breaks through the dimensions of time and space to race time itself ending up centuries in the past, is sent through space and time during his fight with Ultimate Man and flies back; Silver Age Superman has flown through time so often that he's become immune to chronal distortions. Post-Crisis Superman is relative to Golden Age Superman, who flew back in time to chart meteorite courses, flew through the time barrier, flies back in time by flying around in a circle to fly into the time barrier, skips out on a man by flying into the future through the time barrier, bursts through the barriers of time to run back three centuries, flies around the earth while breaking through the space-time continuum to travel to the past, flies back to his own time after helping people, and hurls an ape into the past. Should be faster than Hal Jordan, who flew to the future without his lantern, and can travel a timeless distanceless barrier in an instant. Should be at least relative to Shazam, who travelled between atoms to go back to the Big Bang and can fight in a realm in between and beyond time and space. Should be at least relative to Wonder Woman, who is fast enough to move into the Speed Force. Should be relative to Aquaman, who can swim in the Secret Sea, which transcends space and time. Superman moved around in a realm of non-space and non-time. Should be relative to Silver Age Barry Allen, who ran into the Source. Superman flew from Apokolips to Earth. Superman flew out of the Source after Highfather said that it would be impossible to do.)

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

superman should still have immeasurable speed
Superman tagged Professor Zoom and was stated to have speed who rivals his, and Professor Zoom ran to the 25th century can move through multiple temporal dimensions, was going to run to the past to change it during his fight with the Flash, and can freely move through the timestream. Superman reacts to Barry Allen and Wally West while they're running through time. Superman kept pace with Jay Garrick and Wally West while they were chasing the Reverse Flash to the past. Superman tied with Barry Allen in a race while holding back, tagged a fusion of Wally West and Barry Allen, and chased down and subdued Barry Allen. Wally West ran to the 853rd century, outran the Black Racer to the end of time and the universe until death no longer existed on a conceptual level, he ran back to his time through the timestream, he ran into the Speed Force and changed history, chased Professor Zoom throughout time alongside Barry Allen, accidentally ran a few weeks into the future alongside Barry Allen, raced himself a few moments into the future by running into the future, Wally outpaces light, raced on a four-dimensional track that weaves in an out of space-time to the extent where sometimes he's shielding his eyes from the Big Bang and sometimes he's squeezing through a pinprick as the universe implodes into nothing, outpaced instantaneous teleportation from the point of view of ultradimensional gamblers, utilises the source of the Speed Force to morph hyperdimensional gels while fighting a White Martian, and ran through time through the slipstream alongside Jay Garrick and Barry Allen. Superman flew back in time to the Big Bang when fighting Brainiac 13. Superman pushed through the barriers of space and time when fighting against the embodiment of his own Death. Superman chased Superboy into the future. Superman outpaced reality-blitzing missiles that were sterilising the continuum. Superman vibrates through to timestream to fly a man back in time. Superman can move fast enough to outrun temporal distortions in the past, present, and future. Superman should be relative to Superboy-Prime who was capable of momentarily outpacing Jenni Ognat when she was running through time. Superman flew into Hyperspace, which is a realm that exists beyond space and time. Post-Crisis Superman should be relative to Silver Age Superman, who flew back in time through the timestream until he flew through a timeless, placeless dimension, flew around Kryptonians until he whisked them into the timestream, flew into his past self colliding head-on to send themselves into separate points in time and then proceeded to fly into the 30th century, he tore through space and time with his speed before facing Jaxon, flew through the past one occasion with Batman, flew to 1971 to bring people some milk, spun faster than time to move into the past, crashes through the time barrier to take a man back to his time, bursted through the bounds of infinity, shattered the boundaries of space and time with his speed, hurls Jimmy Olsen through the timestream multiple times, streaks through the barriers of time and space, breaking through time-space to fly into the past, carries a bunch of people through time, breaks through the dimensions of time and space to race time itself ending up centuries in the past, is sent through space and time during his fight with Ultimate Man and flies back; Silver Age Superman has flown through time so often that he's become immune to chronal distortions. Post-Crisis Superman is relative to Golden Age Superman, who flew back in time to chart meteorite courses, flew through the time barrier, flies back in time by flying around in a circle to fly into the time barrier, skips out on a man by flying into the future through the time barrier, bursts through the barriers of time to run back three centuries, flies around the earth while breaking through the space-time continuum to travel to the past, flies back to his own time after helping people, and hurls an ape into the past. Should be faster than Hal Jordan, who flew to the future without his lantern, and can travel a timeless distanceless barrier in an instant. Should be at least relative to Shazam, who travelled between atoms to go back to the Big Bang and can fight in a realm in between and beyond time and space. Should be at least relative to Wonder Woman, who is fast enough to move into the Speed Force. Should be relative to Aquaman, who can swim in the Secret Sea, which transcends space and time. Superman moved around in a realm of non-space and non-time. Should be relative to Silver Age Barry Allen, who ran into the Source. Superman flew from Apokolips to Earth. Superman flew out of the Source after Highfather said that it would be impossible to do.)

You definitely copied this from that one CSAP Superman profile lmfao. Several of these aren't even Pre-Crisis nor have you even given sources for them.

As for OP, I disagree with Pre Crisis Supes stuff. There's isn't much correlation between the FTL and travelling through time stuff. Other than it being a way to describe Superman getting faster and faster.

The first scan makes it pretty clear that the whole "breaking space time" thing wasn't because he went FTL, as even going at FTL wasn't enough got breaking space time, as evident by the caption:

Until he surpasses the Speed of Light itself! But he finds no sign of Supergirl, and so he presses on!

Same goes for the second statement. "Faster than the speed of light, swifter than time itself" is just description of Superman going faster and faster in order to travel through time. None of these mean that Superman is only able to time travel via FTL specifically.

The SBP one is fine to remove.

 

[Robo432343]

You definitely copied this from that one CSAP Superman profile lmfao.

yes everyone knows that profile
also a fair few of them are pre crisis

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

What about Superman breaking bonds of Infinity ?

That sounds metaphorical and vague as heck. Also he performed that feat while looking for Supergirl and was traveling to other universes unwillingly and was worried about going too far that he may not be able to make it home.

superman should still have immeasurable speed
Superman tagged Professor Zoom and was stated to have speed who rivals his, and Professor Zoom ran to the 25th century can move through multiple temporal dimensions, was going to run to the past to change it during his fight with the Flash, and can freely move through the timestream. Superman reacts to Barry Allen and Wally West while they're running through time. Superman kept pace with Jay Garrick and Wally West while they were chasing the Reverse Flash to the past. Superman tied with Barry Allen in a race while holding back, tagged a fusion of Wally West and Barry Allen, and chased down and subdued Barry Allen. Wally West ran to the 853rd century, outran the Black Racer to the end of time and the universe until death no longer existed on a conceptual level, he ran back to his time through the timestream, he ran into the Speed Force and changed history, chased Professor Zoom throughout time alongside Barry Allen, accidentally ran a few weeks into the future alongside Barry Allen, raced himself a few moments into the future by running into the future, Wally outpaces light, raced on a four-dimensional track that weaves in an out of space-time to the extent where sometimes he's shielding his eyes from the Big Bang and sometimes he's squeezing through a pinprick as the universe implodes into nothing, outpaced instantaneous teleportation from the point of view of ultradimensional gamblers, utilises the source of the Speed Force to morph hyperdimensional gels while fighting a White Martian, and ran through time through the slipstream alongside Jay Garrick and Barry Allen. Superman flew back in time to the Big Bang when fighting Brainiac 13. Superman pushed through the barriers of space and time when fighting against the embodiment of his own Death. Superman chased Superboy into the future. Superman outpaced reality-blitzing missiles that were sterilising the continuum. Superman vibrates through to timestream to fly a man back in time. Superman can move fast enough to outrun temporal distortions in the past, present, and future. Superman should be relative to Superboy-Prime who was capable of momentarily outpacing Jenni Ognat when she was running through time. Superman flew into Hyperspace, which is a realm that exists beyond space and time. Post-Crisis Superman should be relative to Silver Age Superman, who flew back in time through the timestream until he flew through a timeless, placeless dimension, flew around Kryptonians until he whisked them into the timestream, flew into his past self colliding head-on to send themselves into separate points in time and then proceeded to fly into the 30th century, he tore through space and time with his speed before facing Jaxon, flew through the past one occasion with Batman, flew to 1971 to bring people some milk, spun faster than time to move into the past, crashes through the time barrier to take a man back to his time, bursted through the bounds of infinity, shattered the boundaries of space and time with his speed, hurls Jimmy Olsen through the timestream multiple times, streaks through the barriers of time and space, breaking through time-space to fly into the past, carries a bunch of people through time, breaks through the dimensions of time and space to race time itself ending up centuries in the past, is sent through space and time during his fight with Ultimate Man and flies back; Silver Age Superman has flown through time so often that he's become immune to chronal distortions. Post-Crisis Superman is relative to Golden Age Superman, who flew back in time to chart meteorite courses, flew through the time barrier, flies back in time by flying around in a circle to fly into the time barrier, skips out on a man by flying into the future through the time barrier, bursts through the barriers of time to run back three centuries, flies around the earth while breaking through the space-time continuum to travel to the past, flies back to his own time after helping people, and hurls an ape into the past. Should be faster than Hal Jordan, who flew to the future without his lantern, and can travel a timeless distanceless barrier in an instant. Should be at least relative to Shazam, who travelled between atoms to go back to the Big Bang and can fight in a realm in between and beyond time and space. Should be at least relative to Wonder Woman, who is fast enough to move into the Speed Force. Should be relative to Aquaman, who can swim in the Secret Sea, which transcends space and time. Superman moved around in a realm of non-space and non-time. Should be relative to Silver Age Barry Allen, who ran into the Source. Superman flew from Apokolips to Earth. Superman flew out of the Source after Highfather said that it would be impossible to do.)

Uh, you do realize it's bad practice to copy/paste from other wikis, as are writing things in the form of a singular oversized paragraph consisting of long ass run on sentences. The least one could do is break it down in to multiple paragraphs in essay format.

Anyway, a lot of those are subjective because Captain Zoom and various Flashes can have speed with variable tiers; they can reach Immeasurable from time to time, but do not have Immeasurable combat speed all the time. And others while do on paper are things that would seemingly fit for Immeasurable movement speed, but traveling forward or backward in time through sheer movement/flight speed isn't always something that would scale to combat speed. We used to have "Immeasurable via running through time" on his page and still do for many other pages; but I agree with AKM sama that we should just treat those as an ability to Time Travel with east with Immeasurable only being something we give to those who have it outright. I am also pretty sure there exist Anti-feats that would give the impression about Immeasurable reactions not being the most consistent thing ever. Also, it looks like those pages are things Post-Crisis, not Pre-Crisis have done. That's another issue with CSAP, is they like to overcomposite various versions of characters into one character; which is especially bad on DC characters.

At least Emirp is trying to be reasonable, but as I said. So far, I have only ever heard "Traveling time via movement" being legit; which never disagreed with. My main disagreement is the assumption that it scales to combat speed by default.

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

My main disagreement is the assumption that it scales to combat speed by default.

Tbf, Supes's flight speed has always been portrayed as comparable to his combat speed. I think the bigger issue honestly is that I don't think most characters should even scale to Superman's Immeasurable stuff but that's a whole other thread.

 

[Tllmbrg]

Yah idk how anything OP presented debunks the current speed rating
It jus says "Superan went faster than light in order to time travel" and immeasurable is faster than light so like, what's the counter evidence here?

Also yah I don't think Superman has ever been shown to have a big separation like that, not to mention there are just other pre crisis characters that do similar time travel stuff through sheer speed

 

[57Dev]

That sounds metaphorical and vague as heck.

"Looks at game character profiles" Yeah, metaphors.

Also he performed that feat while looking for Supergirl and was traveling to other universes unwillingly and was worried about going too far that he may not be able to make it home.

So you admit that he even travelled to another universe but Infinite is a metaphor ? WTF