Sorin Revision

[Wokistan]

So, looking at his profile, it appears he's missing some things. Let's change that.


Abilities
Life Manipulation: Planeswalker card 1, Planeswalker card 4, Blood Tribute, Campaign of Vengance, Repay in Kind, Sorin's Thirst, Sorin's Vengance, the creation of Avacyn, and more support that.

Death Manipulation: He already has this, but the tidbit stating that it is limited mostly to his sword is false.

Statistics Reduction: Planeswalker 1, Repay in Kind, and the whole sealing the Eldrazi into 3-D shadows thing would point to this.

Mind Manipulation: Planeswalker 1 and Monomania.

Summoning: This is an ability ubiquitous to Planeswalkers, while also being explicitly shown on Planeswalker 2, Planeswalker 3 and Planeswalker 4.

Empowerment: Planeswalker 2, Planeswalker 3, Deadly Wanderings, and Mark of the Vampire.

Soul Manipulationand maybe Absorption: Consume Spirit.

Necromancy: Planeswalker 2's minus 6.

Sealing/BFR: Helped seal the Eldrazi, banished Nahiri to the Helvault.


Resistances
Existence Erasure: A resistance ubiquitous to Planeswalkers, as they all must travel through the Blind Eternities to planeswalk. Sorin also fought the Eldrazi, so there's that.

Eldrazi Abilities: Due to being one of The Three who fought and sealed the Eldrazi into their 3 dimensional forms, he should have resistance to the abilities listed on the pages of Emrakul, Kozilek, and Ulamog.

Death Manipulation: Resists his own death magic when Nahiri reflects it back at him, instead only being hurt like a normal attack.

But the fingers never touched her. They suddenly broke apart, and flew in several directions, tracing contours in the air that were otherwise invisible. Sorin unleashed a second torrent of death magic just as the first errant bolts completed their tortuous paths back to their source, crashing into the vampire in a rapid sequence of high hisses. Sorin fell to one knee, biting his lip in anguish, and from between the plates of his armor, dark vapor rose from unseen wounds. -Campaign of Vengeance


Accepted:

Rejected:

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

Creating tokens is not an example of life manip, it's simply either summoning or just rallying troops. Avacyn isn't alive in the conventional sense, I believe this was stated by the other Angels of Innistrad, she's more like a conscious magic construct.

Yeah, the tidbit about his sword should go.

They didn't seal the Titan's true forms into their shadows, they pinned their true forms down by sealing the shadows. See Ugin's explaination of this, he said it was like sticking your finger into a pond. -X/-X on paper isn't stat reduction but game mechanics, for Sorin he's just using his death magic.

Sorin has shown examples of mind manip in the story too, so that makes sense.

Summoning makes sense.

Empowering through +X/+X is just game mechanics. Even for cards like Mark of the Vampire, it just has a flavor quote from Sorin, there's nothing implying he's the one responsible for it.

Same thing for Soulhax, there is nothing on that card other than a flavor quote of Sorin to imply he's doing it. But I'm certain Sorin has used Soulhax in lore.

Sealing makes sense with prep given the Helvault.

Resisting EE is good. Unless he directly resisted any of the Eldrazi's abilities, it is wrong to assume he resists all of them by virtue of fighting them, which he didn't really even do given they were sealed almost immediately. Even then that's only pre-mending.

Deathhax Resistance is obvious here.

 

[Wokistan]

The life manip justification was in all the "Gain life" abilities and OG sorin's -3, not the tokens. Repay in kind is also pretty clear cut.

Not sure why empowering/reduction through ┬▒X/┬▒X should be immediately dismissed as game mechanics. Game mechanics are only rejected when they contradict other stuff or are otherwise inconsistent. Sorin empowering and weakening people is neither of these. MotV seems to empower through conversion to a vampire, as vampires are already noted to be stronger than any regular human could be, and Sorin can obviously do that.

Even in the flavor text, Sorin is talking about taking away people's spirit. Generally, having a character's flavor text on a card indicates that they are in some way connected to that spell, whether they use it, are its inventor, or some other thing.

Eldrazi have passives, and Sorin, having to lure them to Zenkidar in the first place, would have had to have been attacked at some point. EE resistance also has blind eternities.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

At best that's just self-healing.

+X/+X has been shown numerous times in magic to be simple stuff like just rallying troops (even more so than actual empowerment, now that I think of it), and -X/-X has often been tied to miasmas or disease as opposed to regular stat reduction. It's just part of his death magic.

Not even really generally. Often flavor text is a character just commenting on an event or thing, barely is it ever them being responsible for it if A: Their name isn't on the spell, or B: They aren't depicted in the spell.

Yeah, I said EE was fine. He could have lured them without being attacked much like Nahiri did with Emrakul on Innistrad. And again, unless he explicitly demonstrated it, he should not have a Resistance.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

And I'm not saying Sorin shouldn't have Soul manip. The flavor at least implied it but overall it's a poor source. I'm certain, though, than there are much better examples in the story itself.

 

[Wokistan]

Setting people's life to things and equalizing life is not self healing.

You're too used to white The buffing here is clearly not reinforcements though, what with how deadly wanderings is explicitly for solitary individuals, becoming a vampire has no requirement to suddenly summon a bunch of extra dudes, and no amount of people would suddenly bestow the collective deathtouch and lifelink. Nerfing abilities being based on miasmas and stuff is irrelevant. The end result is a stats reduction, therefore he has the ability to stat reduce. Stat reduction through deathhax is still stat reduction.

Not sure why it's a poor source when he explicitly states that he can take away spirits, but eh. He's definitely used it before, as you said yourself.

 

[Antvasima]

So what are the conclusions here?

 

[Wokistan]

Azzy is also knowledge on MTG, so I'd also like to wait for his input. Dargoo and I didn't even agree on everything yet. Ant I literally made this earlier today lol, no need to worry about it yet.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. You can ask Azathoth to reply here if you wish.

 

[Wokistan]

Already did. He's got a bunch of other things to do in though, including one of my own revisions.

 

[Wokistan]

At the very least, everything dargoo agreed with in his first comment should be clear cut enough to add without controversy, though if you want to be safe and wait I'd understand.

 

[Antvasima]

It may be best to wait a little.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

I agree on waiting for more input.

 

[Wokistan]

bump.

 

[Antvasima]

You can ask Azathoth to give input again if you wish.

 

[Wokistan]

Bump

 

[Antvasima]

Did you ask Azathoth?

 

[Wokistan]

pmuB

 

[Antvasima]

Well, in lack of better options, I think that you and Dargoo have to try to come to an agreement.

 

[Wokistan]

I asked azzy, who said that he would look at this and the other one after he did his appointment. However, I'm in a place with pretty bad internet as of now myself, so I may be kinda sporadic.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. No problem.