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Sora Vs. Mickey Mouse

Sora only has 1 key.

Unless you mean keyblade, in which case, all of them, as he can quickly change them in KH3.
 
The 2nd Existential Seed said:
> Bob was part of the thread where you guys stated KH3 would be upgraded
> Makes this matchup

...
Click to expand...
Also, Mickey would scale along Sora anyways.
 
Bobsican said:
The 2nd Existential Seed said:
> Bob was part of the thread where you guys stated KH3 would be upgraded
> Makes this matchup

...
Click to expand...
Also, Mickey would scale along Sora anyways.
Click to expand...
To an extent, yes, though there are clear differences in game, both in combat and in cutscenes.

For Sora's advantages, we start out with physical advantages. Sora appears to be faster, and by the fight in the Keyblade Graveyard, appears to have resistance to Xehanort's Stopga, while Mickey is frozen in place.

Sora also appears to have more keyblade forms available to him, and the ultima weapon is frankly a tier above anything Mickey has. Not to mention, due to his prior heartless status, Sora has access to Rage form for increased speed and damage output.

Conversely, Mickey has only as a clear advantage, in knowledge and skill in magic, over Sora.
 
Bobsican said:
Wasn´t Mickey stated to be canonically faster?
Click to expand...
I don't remember a point where it's mentioned within the game series, however it is clear in combat during the Sora , Riku, Mickey vs Xemnas, Young Xehanort, Ansem fight at the end of KH3, that sora has a faster flat run speed than mickey, and his dash attacks have longer range.
 
Bobsican said:
I mean, when I played as him in 358/2 I could see him moving quite faster.
Click to expand...
Maybe Sora has gotten faster as of KH3?

So I'd say, base speed could be inconclusive, but I'd say conclusively in Ultimate or Rage/Anti form Sora is faster, regardless of that.
 
Sora also got explicitly weaker post Dream Drop Distance, which is why he lacks most of his spells and resistances, which means that Mickey´s Stopza can work.
 
He clearly only used it in Mickey specifically, as I think he also got time stopped before ein that game too, but I´m not sure.
 
Bobsican said:
He clearly only used it in Mickey specifically, as I think he also got time stopped before ein that game too, but I´m not sure.
Click to expand...
Riku is also very clearly frozen in place as well in that shot.
 
He doesn´t appear to have been in the area of effect, however, unlike Riku and Mickey.
 
Bobsican said:
He doesn´t appear to have been in the area of effect, however, unlike Riku and Mickey.
Click to expand...
Going frame-by-frame, (had to find a higher quality video - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HdriRLhQbrg ) 3:24-3:25, it's quite clear that the bubble of effect for stopza extends beyond sora. At 3:24 we can see, not only is sora Whited out in effect, one of the time-dial symbols to the right of sora appears to be behind sora in-frame, which would suggest sora is fully within the area of effect. (and it is implied the bubble extends further still as the screen brightens in the next few dozen frames)
 
Despite what is said of Sora losing his power post - DDD, it is quite clear sora retains his physical abilities and innate combat skill, as can be implied from the titan fight so early into gameplay. So in terms of his baseline stats - speed, strength, etc, he shouldn't be lower than in KH2 and can quite feasibly be better as of the end of KH3 in these fields. It mostly appears to be in terms of any sort of magical knowledge - that of magic itself, and magical abilities (eg combat abilities), the latter of which can still be accessed - at least those achieved pre-DDD - in temporary bursts through Second Form with the Kingdom Key.

Also, by the end of the game, while not back to DDD levels, or near Mickey's, Sora does clearly regain some degree of competency with magic.

There's also the other keyblade transformation abilities which sora has access to, that Mickey does not seem to for whatever reason. (maybe it's because of a special ability of the Kingdom Key L, and given Mickey lost KKD, I don't think it's explained in game.) Which offers him a few forms.

As I would assume Sora will have Kingdom Key here to start off with, the most effective second and third keyblade forms are likey the Ultima Weapon (being the most powerful and agile keyblade he has, with a number of special abilities, including flight, multi-weapon summoning, and telekinetic weapon manipulation), and Ever After / Mirage Staff, which when upgraded boosts his magic beyond that which the Ultima Weapon provides, plus replacing basic attacks with magic AOE with better range and width than the attacks of any other keyblade, and has the secondary ability of granting him short-distance teleportation and short-term clone creation.

Ever-After/Mirage Staff: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9_v2YkmcC-A

Ultima Weapon: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S57IQqReEo0
 
I'd question how canon Ultima Keyblade is, since one of the Synthesis pieces for it is in a chest only obtainable by REVISITING The Final World. But then again, Sora tells Chirithy him & it are friends now & he'll come back sometime. But I doubt that's what he meant.

Then again, does a noncanon means of material gathering (Even if it's a required step in the ONLY way to forge UW.) make it a noncanon weapon?
 
Imaginym said:
I'd question how canon Ultima Keyblade is, since one of the Synthesis pieces for it is in a chest only obtainable by REVISITING The Final World. But then again, Sora tells Chirithy him & it are friends now & he'll come back sometime. But I doubt that's what he meant.
Then again, does a noncanon means of material gathering (Even if it's a required step in the ONLY way to forge UW.) make it a noncanon weapon?
Click to expand...
I would argue it's up for debate as to whether it's a canon weapon or not. Given the context of forging it, it may or may not be, though given the timing for attaining the last piece, I would agree to the probability that it wouldn't be.

As for the point of this discussion, I have interpreted things as being within any of Sora's options within KH3 at present, which would include items and gear that one would get by going back to worlds that, by the context of the story, wouldn't make sense for the character to go back to within the time frame presented.

If we wanted to stick to what is purely canonically obtained during the story, I'd opt instead to give Sora either Nano Gear or Wheel of fate, either having advantages over the other to fill a hybrid combat role.
 
Bobsican said:
How do you unock Ultima Weapon in KH3? It looks more OP than Reflect
Click to expand...
This video shows the steps & how to do them! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HuCyF1uJdsg

The steps in brief: Get 58 Synthesis Materials for the Moogle Shop. (Presumably, to be able to craft it. From what I've read, this is nigh-impossible to do before reaching The Keyblade Graveyard.)

You need 7 Orichalcum+, which there are only 7 of in the entire game, & they're all ONLY useable for crafting Ultima Weapon, apparently. (Oh, & 2 Wellspring, Lucid & Pulsing Crystals, but that's cake compared to the 7 Orichalcum+.)

How to get the 7 Orichalcum+:

1. A Treasure Chest on Exile Island in The Caribbean.

2. A Treasure Chest in The Final World.

3. Find 80 of the 90 Lucky Emblems in the game.

4. Get a high score with all 7 Flantastic Seven.

5. Find all of the treasures in the Frozen Slider Mini-Game.

6. Via Twilight Town Mailbox Prize Postcard prize. (Semi-RNG, but you can save scum. Hope you like hearing a kid talk about how he's SERIOUSLY CRAVING ice cream! And also "Ever heard of the 7 Wonders of Twilight Town?")

7. Beat the Omega Machina. (Pretty much a Gummi Ship Super Boss.)

If you want to try getting it for yourself, the video I linked links guides for the mini-games & Lucky Emblems, & its description & video goes into detail about the Omega Machina!
 
Bobsican said:
Okay, thanks.
Anyways, Mickey can still erase Sora with his paintbrush.
Click to expand...
Potentially, but Mickey's paintbrush could be easily dodged by sora, given the low velocity of the paint, or simply reflected via keyblade, given how the paintbrush seems to react to both magic and metallic objects. (and Keyblades being both.)

Plus, Sora seems to have at least a few free-passes to lose lives canonically via abuse of the power of waking via rewinding time while retaining his memory. (Given he comes back twice in story under his own power this way, even if repeated abuse has the potential to leave sora dead, as is implied by both YX's speech and the ending.)
 
Time was rewinded? There doesn´t seem to be an statement around saying that as far I´m aware.
 
Bobsican said:
Time was rewinded? There doesn´t seem to be an statement around saying that as far I´m aware.
Click to expand...
can't find the previous moment in short order, but there is one in the final boss fight where sora takes a lethal hit, then rewinds time to do-over.

https://youtu.be/dvRK6qYKfXY?t=2735

The fact the game over animation is consistent across all games with this scene for sora also lends the possibility that any game-overs that a player could continue from throughout the games are also potentially canon.
 
Oh, in that case it´s going to be tough for Mickey.

Mickey can still use his toon force to summon anvils to fall on Sora.
 
Bobsican said:
Oh, in that case it´s going to be tough for Mickey.
Mickey can still use his toon force to sumon anvils to fall on Sora.
Click to expand...
Which sora could potentially reflect, dodge, or shrug off the hit from giving the striking strength of an anvil in comparison with the striking power of the various enemies Sora has faced throughout the games.

So as a whole, my vote in this whole bit goes to Sora getting the win, simply due to the combination of resisting all of Mickey's hax, having hax Mickey can't counter, and Sora having a slight combat edge in both stats and melee ability.
 
I'm not sure Sora did Time Travel. He goes to the Final World, but he has a form there & isn't just a heart, & is body is there, because Kairi is fighting with all her strength to hold him together.

Namine's dialogue also suggests his TFW form is because of Kairi, which'd make SOME sense, IMHO given Kairi restored Sora from his Heartless form in KH1.

We also learn Namine was the one who contacted Terra, so if time is only going forward, there's still a reason Lingering Will would've shown up, as opposed to going back in time before she contacts him, in which case, why didn't he show up the first time? Going purely forwards in time at least provides an answer: Terra/Lingering Will wasn't aware he was needed, or Namine's contact helped him gain some use of LW again.

Anyway, after piecing himself back together, Sora went & got his friends' hearts, & going by his dialogue with Chirithy about how to rescue them, the YX & his final fate, we can assume Sora revived his friends using the Power of Waking.

Also, when Sora comes back, we can see his friends all grouped to greet him. Why would they be expecting him to show up there & now if he had time travelled?

Goofy even says "Now point us back at those guys!" A Goofy from the past wouldn't say "back" because Past Goofy wouldn't have fought the Seekers of Darkness to begin with.

Not only that, when Sora arrives in TFW, Chirithy tells him no one else arrived with him, & so they're gone forever, or clinging to the world he came from. Given Sora uses the Power of Awakening on their Hearts & the Hearts go away, & his reaction, Sora probably sent them back to their bodies.

TL;DR - It doesn't seem like time travel, but that Kairi fought to hold Sora together, Namine contacted Terra, & Sora was able to have the atypical boon of his body being in the Final World for him to piece back together. He did, then used the Power of Waking a lot to get his friends back, & they all went to The Keyblade Graveyard for a second time.
 
Imaginym said:
I'm not sure Sora did Time Travel. He goes to the Final World, but he has a form there & isn't just a heart, & is body is there, because Kairi is fighting with all her strength to hold him together.
Namine's dialogue also suggests his TFW form is because of Kairi, which'd make SOME sense, IMHO given Kairi restored Sora from his Heartless form in KH1.

We also learn Namine was the one who contacted Terra, so if time is only going forward, there's still a reason Lingering Will would've shown up, as opposed to going back in time before she contacts him, in which case, why didn't he show up the first time? Going purely forwards in time at least provides an answer: Terra/Lingering Will wasn't aware he was needed, or Namine's contact helped him gain some use of LW again.

Anyway, after piecing himself back together, Sora went & got his friends' hearts, & going by his dialogue with Chirithy about how to rescue them, the YX & his final fate, we can assume Sora revived his friends using the Power of Waking.

Also, when Sora comes back, we can see his friends all grouped to greet him. Why would they be expecting him to show up there & now if he had time travelled?

Goofy even says "Now point us back at those guys!" A Goofy from the past wouldn't say "back" because Past Goofy wouldn't have fought the Seekers of Darkness to begin with.

Not only that, when Sora arrives in TFW, Chirithy tells him no one else arrived with him, & so they're gone forever, or clinging to the world he came from. Given Sora uses the Power of Awakening on their Hearts & the Hearts go away, & his reaction, Sora probably sent them back to their bodies.

TL;DR - It doesn't seem like time travel, but that Kairi fought to hold Sora together, Namine contacted Terra, & Sora was able to have the atypical boon of his body being in the Final World for him to piece back together. He did, then used the Power of Waking a lot to get his friends back, & they all went to The Keyblade Graveyard for a second time.
Click to expand...
In this case I was referring to the scene that happens earlier at some point I think? and later in the final boss fight, the scene that looks like this: https://i.ytimg.com/vi/-nSWhJ1dCvI/hqdefault.jpg Which can be seen happening in canon in the last boss fight, as was in the video I previously linked, as far as time reversal for sora is concerned.
 
@Bobsician: Thanks for quoting/acknowledging my wall of text. Anyway, I've seen that. I'd question if it's Time Rewinding. It'd be a real curveball to add to his power set, & Time Travel in KH requires being just a Heart. (Sora has been able to use Slow & Stop effects in game, however.)

Plus, there's the whole "Sora's friends are his power". We see Sora get knocked back, go down, then "Press Triangle to call upon your bonds of friendship!" with a Reaction Command called Trinity. Then the lights of Donald & Goofy appear & Sora is back in the beam struggle.

It is possible he just revived, got back up & was in the struggle again, but the presentation is slightly odd for that, I'll admit. But I still feel him rewinding time is unprecedented here.

In either case, resurrection or rewind, it seems involuntary, & if it was time rewinding, it's a very short duration, especially if we assume the beam has typical Keyblade attack speed: Didn't Sora's Keyblade beam in a previous game reach a moon very quickly? If the beams travel that fast, it wouldn't be that long a rewind before Xehanort's beam was at Sora again.
 
Yeah, it appears to be a few seconds in that canon moment, and as for it being res/rewind, I'd have to say rewind due to positioning. As for it being a trinity command, that may be the case in the moment, but the potential is clearly there if earlier occurances as also being canon. If non-mandatory game overs are also canon with this ability, then it would be available to Sora so long as he has the willpower to continue. I'd also note, given the apperance of the game over screen, it is quite plausible that it is just Sora's heart that is time traveling back to a previous body, and as it is clear YX can time travel with some memories to give information to other versions of Xehanort in DDD to show up at a given time, KH timetravel lore does not preclude Sora retaining memories with time travel in this fashion.

Furthermore, even if it is dependent on the power of friendship, it is also canon that Sora can call on the power of friendship through his heart connection with others from distance, and in some cases, with alternate versions of characters. As a fight with Mickey is probably going to take place with donald and goofy existing in universe, even if they're not allowed to interfere directly, Sora can still potentially utilize the power of friendship for this as well regardless.

Also, as far as keyblade beam speed goes, the calc was 3.5x light speed for the moonshot.
 
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