Sora Vs Giratina (5th strongest non-smurf 2-A)

[theultimate5105]

Giratina has immortality type 8 for its true form based off the normal multiverse so Sora would not be able to reach the battlefield and Giratina would keep coming back to life if Giratina BFRd him and Sora would lose because he has been BFRd and cannot destroy the source of Giratina Immortality

 

[ThanatosX]

Giratina has immortality type 8 for its true form based off the normal multiverse so Sora would not be able to reach the battlefield and Giratina would keep coming back to life if Giratina BFRd him and Sora would lose because he has been BFRd and cannot destroy the source of Giratina Immortality

The Keyblade negates Immortality Type 8.

 

[Bobsican]

Oh yeah, I almost forgot about the immortality negation, that's quite relevant here.

Anyways, I've been browsing what Giratina usually leads with from here, here and here, Sora resists the status conditions Giratina can inflict (notably burns and Heal Block), Shadow Force can be a bit problematic as it's a move that can bypass protection and teleports Giratina around, except Sora has already dealt with exactly that.

That said, Defog and Scary Face can also be an issue as Sora clearly will appreciate his agility going by how the discussion is going, but Sora's teleportation should mitigate that, and even so it doesn't seem those moves in particular are stuff Giratina uses too often, and can be dodged as usual, and there's how Sora can also do the same with his Hunny weapons, I guess there's Aura Sphere being a homing attack for that matter, but Sora has also already dealt with that before.

At this point I'm voting for Sora TBH.

 

[TheKingStrategist13]

In character, the things Giratina usually does in response to a foe will result in Sora's victory in my opinion, and even if Giratina was just willing to off the bat do things it normally doesn't, Sora has way's to deal with most of them. My vote goes to Sora as well.

 

[ThanatosX]

Yeah, while Giratina have some interesting wincons, I see Sora winning this more often than not considering he is more versatile and have more abilities in general. I am voting Sora too, at least until some other arguments are given.

 

[Hasty12345]

Sora FRA

 

[LeoEpicGamer8910]

Sora FRA

 

[TauanVictor]

Sora FRA

 

[Bobsican]

1 more vote and we enter grace.

 

[Setsuna_tenma]

sora fra

 

[Ret_of_Guys]

Sora fra

 

[Doggo]

Sora fra

 

[TauanVictor]

[Giratina's image is crashing]

 

[Bobsican]

It doesn't crash to me, anyways, I'll be adding the match to the pages now that the grace period has passed.

 

[Arceus0x]

So i prefer not to peer into pokemon threads since i sorta promised not to mess with them unless it is about reverting the canon split or sth, but i wanted to say that while Giratina may lose here there's also the lake trio and palkia and dialga who all have different abilities and judging by Sora's resistances, while he does resist time stop and slow, he doesn't really resist time bfr which is something that dialga can very much do. That is all for now, i am out

 

[Bobsican]

Sora has time travel, so...

 

[theultimate5105]

Sora has time travel, so...

How good is said time travel
just curious because Dialga could easily send someone to before time existed or to the end of time

 

[Bobsican]

Theoretically he can go anywhere, but time travel semantics in the series turn it a bit difficult.
Either way, Dialga has no type 4 acausality compared to Giratina, so the passive fate manip prevents it.

 

[Ego]

What the hell was this thread?

Has it ever been established that Sora has at least 2-B range to effect the creation trio?
Because in Dialga Vs Sora it was at least incon or Dialga temporal BFR Sora and cancels out time travel and it was because Sora's range was bad

 

[Ego]

Does Giratina even have a wincon in this if it can't kill sora or BFR him?

 

[Bobsican]

Sora's wincon here is just killing the avatar, which then can't come back because lol Mid-Godly regen negation.

Sora also got passive fate manip way after that Dialga match, so as said before, that no longer applies.

It was also agreed on that Giratina could BFR + seal way past Sora's traveling range, but it was concluded this isn't too in character, so it's a decisive win for Sora or so.

 

[Ego]

Sora's wincon here is just killing the avatar, which then can't come back because lol Mid-Godly regen negation.

Sora also got passive fate manip way after that Dialga match, so as said before, that no longer applies.

It was also agreed on that Giratina could BFR + seal way past Sora's traveling range, but it was concluded this isn't too in character, so it's a decisive win for Sora or so.

So at least make Giratina bloodlust to make it fair because Giratina would just try to rip Sora to pieces while Sora can just come back and erase Giratina.

Is this even the true form where it's unknown what they actually lead with

 

[Bobsican]

Eh, for the purposes of top 10 lists fully standard SBA is used, trying to push it more in Giratina's favor would make it inappropiate for those purposes, now if you think this is a stomp, that's another story.

Giratina generally interacts with stuff at all with its avatars, so...

 

[Ego]

Eh, for the purposes of top 10 lists fully standard SBA is used, trying to push it more in Giratina's favor would make it inappropiate for those purposes, now if you think this is a stomp, that's another story.

Giratina generally interacts with stuff at all with its avatars, so...

So you're telling me the True form of the Creation trio are the puppeteer and the avatars are the puppets?

 

[Bobsican]

IIRC, yes.

 

[Ego]

IIRC, yes.

I thought they just create them to interact with the world not literally use the avatars as puppets

 

[Arceus0x]

actuallly, this is a top 10 fight. Giratina's Avatar may be beat but Giratina itself cannot be killed by Sora. Why is killing an avatar a wincon? He can create endlessly more of them

 

[Bobsican]

Anything beyond that depends on how Pokémon canon is taken, which is a gray area at the moment.

 

[Ego]

actuallly, this is a top 10 fight. Giratina's Avatar may be beat but Giratina itself cannot be killed by Sora. Why is killing an avatar a wincon? He can create endlessly more of them

This is true form I think not the avatar

 

[Bobsican]

actuallly, this is a top 10 fight. Giratina's Avatar may be beat but Giratina itself cannot be killed by Sora. Why is killing an avatar a wincon? He can create endlessly more of them

Because he literally can't make more out of Mid-Godly regen negation, as said before

 

[Ego]

Because he literally can't make more out of Mid-Godly regen negation, as said before

Type 9 immortality is basically Mid-Godly regeneration?

I don't think it works that way

 

[Bobsican]

Type 9 just means he doesn't truly "die", but he'd be effectivelly incapped as he can't do much of note without an avatar.

 

[Ego]

Sora is erasing Giratina which most likely lacks a mind,body and soul

Avatar Giratina comes back from True form simply creating a new one not from restoring the body mind and soul

Regeneration negation cannot negate immortality

 

[Bobsican]

Regeneration negation cannot negate immortality

This is totally wrong.

Regarding types 2, 3, 4 and 8, it should be noted that the degree of the abilities should be specified with the same system used for Regeneration. For example, it should preferably be specified if a character has displayed the ability to withstand injuries up to a Mid level for the purposes of type 2, or been shown to recover up to such a degree regarding the other types.

This bit in the Regen page I added with a CRT already heavily implies Immortality and some types of Regen are basically no different for these purposes.

 

[Ego]

Type 9 just means he doesn't truly "die", but he'd be effectivelly incapped as he can't do much of note without an avatar.

But the avatar would just come back time and time again unless that character can reach to the true form or to even be aware of it

You can't just incap the avatar form of the creation trio

 

[Bobsican]

I recall it was also discussed and agreed on that the time for Giratina coming back isn't even combat applicable.

 

[Axl233]

Just a question(not to unrelated from this) but @Bobsican why doesn't sora has all of his hax from the previous games? Do we just accept like that because game mechanics? If he has stopza and EE with mid-godly negation from CoM, he kinda stomp Giratina here.

 

[Ego]

This is totally wrong.



This bit in the Regen page I added with a CRT already heavily implies Immortality and some types of Regen are basically no different for these purposes.

That only applies to those type and doesn't mention type 9

 

[Bobsican]

Just a question(not to unrelated from this) but @Bobsican why doesn't sora has all of his hax from the previous games? Do we just accept like that because game mechanics? If he has stopza and EE with mid-godly negation from CoM, he kinda stomp Giratina here.

Because Sora explicitly loses his powers between each game out of a plot event, he simply regains most stuff manually from scratch in each one.

That only applies to those type and doesn't mention type 9

Fine, but also:

I recall it was also discussed and agreed on that the time for Giratina coming back isn't even combat applicable.

 

[Ego]

Because Sora explicitly loses his powers between each game out of a plot event, he simply regains most stuff manually from scratch in each one.

Fine, but also:

So what the hell does the true form do when it's avatar is dead while it was fighting?
Does it just try to do it itself while staying in it's realm? Because if that's the case then Sora shouldn't be reaching Giratina meanwhile Giratina can just keep playing with Sora